Bad Apple Mafia - Mafia Victory

I did, while talking to Kyrastri.

So, two mafias huh? I actually think that as someone might have said earlier, that one of the cops is a mafia cop.

So, I have Holypie and Kyrastri as my suspects for now, will continue later. I have class at 8am (1 hour from now)

... What? Nobody's said that one of the cops is a mafia cop.

Role cops tell alignment straight up, anyway. Both [MENTION=41]Holypie[/MENTION]; and my investigations reveal clues.

I won't be pointing fingers but that was a stupid assumption. Regardless, suspect whoever you like; name of the game.

[MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; Nothing I can do beyond this point aside from apologising. I should have investigated Cakes like I initially suggested, but it was my fault that I reconsidered when Mas's inbox was full.

I don't really find those suitable arguments, more like consideration to throw off someones suspect, plus your vote for words was not at all filled with reason, just "whatever, doesn't matter". It comes off to me that (especially the 4 times he brought you up as a "possible yet not priority" candidate seems too much of a coincidence to me.

Apparently the doctor protected Kyristra, which was what I wanted, but then they both blew it and didn't expand our fog of war. Now we're definitely f`ucked and have to focus on preserving whoever the f`uck the doctor is which is just another shot in the goddamn dark for them that they can do. I'm so annoyed no one listened to me so I'm no longer going to bother putting in any input as they frekin blew it. In fact I find it kind of questionable to begin with that holypie literally disregarded all of my logic just to go with a method to "clarify" something, and waste two townies lives based on that. For that reason I'm voting now because I'm so frekin annoyed with such blatant disregard, in fact, intentional sabotage of the only big turn around we had left.

[Vote]Holypie

Okay I've been really suspicious of you since basically day one, with all of your random hints nonsense. With three cops (one of which didn't even know what I actually got out of an investigation, I sincerely believed that Kyrastri and I were flavour cops based on role pm and her getting some info about CJ being green???) it's important to eliminate the risk of an insane cop which would turn out EXTREMELY badly for the town, as if we were to act on that cop's information it would waste both a townie life and a lynch vote rather than simply wasting half a night of investigative power. Knowing about what investigative abilities we have is more important that "expanding our fog of war" which would STILL BE FOG because we would have had no idea of sanity. That makes the information effectively worthless, or downright harmful.

Why do we have to preserve the doctor? Unless the mafia goes out on a limb and happens to hit them, the doctor is pretty safe.

I don't understand your points against BTA. Nothing you said about him makes any sense whatsoever, he was hesitant about voting for Words yesterday because he was afraid to cut off the day's discussion by hitting a majority vote. You yourself voted for Corn at (past) the last minute yesterday, how do you explain that?

How the hell is it my fault that two townies died? I wasn't expecting a double night kill, and I doubt anyone else (other than the person responsible) was either.

[vote] KhainiWest

You're dangerously misleading the town, and I don't like it.

I'm an idiot, thought today was Tuesday. Day 3 ends at noon PST on Friday the 20th.

This became antagonistic fast.

Okay I've been really suspicious of you since basically day one, with all of your random hints nonsense. With three cops (one of which didn't even know what I actually got out of an investigation, I sincerely believed that Kyrastri and I were flavour cops based on role pm and her getting some info about CJ being green???) it's important to eliminate the risk of an insane cop which would turn out EXTREMELY badly for the town, as if we were to act on that cop's information it would waste both a townie life and a lynch vote rather than simply wasting half a night of investigative power. Knowing about what investigative abilities we have is more important that "expanding our fog of war" which would STILL BE FOG because we would have had no idea of sanity. That makes the information effectively worthless, or downright harmful.

You disregarded my instructions which would have broaden our fog of war. Where are we now mr holypie? Two "cops", a good Olsi, and no f`ucking leads. Oh and to top it all off we have a secondary way for them to kill us off. All because of your paranoia of something that frankly at this point is irrelevant. Do you know why it's irrelevant? Because one of you has a secure lead, which gives a 50% statistical advantage over zero.

You took a risk, no, I convinced you and all you other numb skulls to take down words, and TRUST her, yes, it's a f`ucking her. Now we have no plan, and your juvenile deflecting tactic just really secures the scum level bull sh`it about you. You think I'm leading the town off path? I lead us to the leader of the organization and f`uckking crucified her.

Here's what actually happened, you knew words was screwed, which is why he went quit, because no matter what the logical and the most sensible method was to take out words, or meta later. You surrendered your leader because you had no other choice. But guess what, now we're going by word of mouth for both of you anyway based on Olsi. But yet again, we have no leads to go on, and I'd rather go on a false lead than be on sitting ducks, it's called being proactive. The reason I suspect you, logically mind you, is because you immediately went from blindlessly trusting someone on my word, to, accusing me based on some silly accusation? It's clear I'm a townie with no real power, I've made suggestive, strategic moves to benefit us, yet you, on the other hand offer either, no real input, or misdirection.

But congratulations, we now have 1 guy clear'd, and no real way to determine which one of you is insane, if one is. So we're in YOUR worst imagined scenario, but with two less people. *claps* Bravo, next time you feel like going out on your own instead of benefit of the consensus of the town, you should probably consult your common sense.

Why do we have to preserve the doctor? Unless the mafia goes out on a limb and happens to hit them, the doctor is pretty safe.

I don't understand your points against BTA. Nothing you said about him makes any sense whatsoever, he was hesitant about voting for Words yesterday because he was afraid to cut off the day's discussion by hitting a majority vote. You yourself voted for Corn at (past) the last minute yesterday, how do you explain that?

How the hell is it my fault that two townies died? I wasn't expecting a double night kill, and I doubt anyone else (other than the person responsible) was either.

His excuse of being "pro words assassinate", is flimsy because his initial vote wasn't out of suspicion, but just to say he did. Yet they constantly mention eachother in a very distant fashion, in my opinion to be able to write off the excuse of acknowledgement, yet have them overlooked because it's a distant assumption.

But please, if you have any other better suggestions you don't want to tell the town or participate, by all means, I'm sure we all love being caught bent over because of your selfish decision which costed more than what it gained us.

[COLOR="#cc8899"][MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION];

Tone down the attitude and language or you're going to be godkilled. First and only warning.[/COLOR]

[MENTION=846]Corn[/MENTION]; [MENTION=7423]TheBirds[/MENTION]; only you guys left to post.

I like how everyone's pretty much passive and not pointing fingers and making progress.

Except that I don't.

I believe in HolyPie and Kira for the moment, which would mean both Chaotic and Olsi are innocent. 4 confirmed townies is a good way to go.

So there's only the two guys I already mentioned, @KhainiWest , [MENTION=8192]LuvDWayULie[/MENTION]; [MENTION=10201]Niernen[/MENTION]; [MENTION=3177]xBTAx[/MENTION]; [MENTION=6823]Polantaris[/MENTION]; and [MENTION=10466]CakesXD[/MENTION];

I think poor ol Khaini is just pissed and out of his mind. Poor fella. No one would simply vote in a cop, right?

I was going to speak about each of you, one at a time, but I noticed that what I was going to speak was basicly the same: You guys seem completely lost. At first, you even CONSIDERED voting no lynch, and the way I see no one in their right mind does that. Every death brings information, even more so if it's a death the town chooses. Not killing someone at sunset is a waste of day.

And then you simply lynched an AFK. Well, good!

Then yesterday everyone followed Meta's gambit and SOMEHOW managed to get the Godmother. Well, on the other side Words was veeeeeeeeeeery different from the previous game, and acting as VerrKol had pointed out, so.

But now that there's no obvious mafia around, you guys are lost, discussing idiotic things, like pointing out the obvious, picking on flavored posts on day one, getting pissed off at bad events, or making such weak accusations, that they are completely devoid of good arguments and are not even accompanied by a vote.

Seriously, man up. Or are you going to go like Day 1, in which one or two people decided to vote for Sega cause he was AFK, and the rest decided to just go and wagon him "cause there was no better option" or something like that?

You're all too defensive and afraid. We're not going anywhere like this.

Well, of all the defensive and afraid people, Luvd is the most shady for me. Usually his posts are small, meaningless, neutral or filled with very weak suspicions. Voting for HolyPie and Kyra seems idiotic, unless he thinks that the two of them plus Olsi and Chaotic are part of the mafia and are playing us really, really hard.

As desperate our situation may seem, I don't think we're all so enthralled we couldn't see that coming. So for now I'll vote for him.

[Vote] LuvDWayULie

Edit: Oh. Looks like Khaini is actually considering the Holy-Olsi-Chaotic-Kyra being mafia. I still think he's just terribly mad with what just happened and is angrily turning whatever came to his head first. Calm down, bro. No mafia has the guts to claim double cop.

When I was mafia I did imagine some very audacious plans, but I never got the rest of my team to accept. It's just too risky and insane. Meta used yet another gambit, and look at what happened to him. Anyway, rationalize, Khaini. I do not believe neither you nor Holy are mafia. I'll remain with my vote.

Edit: Nice OMGUS, by the way.

Corn; TheBirds; only you guys left to post.

I like how everyone's pretty much passive and not pointing fingers and making progress.

Except that I don't.

I believe in HolyPie and Kira for the moment, which would mean both Chaotic and Olsi are innocent. 4 confirmed townies is a good way to go.

So there's only the two guys I already mentioned, @KhainiWest , LuvDWayULie; Niernen; xBTAx; Polantaris; and CakesXD;

I think poor ol Khaini is just pissed and out of his mind. Poor fella. No one would simply vote in a cop, right?

I was going to speak about each of you, one at a time, but I noticed that what I was going to speak was basicly the same: You guys seem completely lost. At first, you even CONSIDERED voting no lynch, and the way I see no one in their right mind does that. Every death brings information, even more so if it's a death the town chooses. Not killing someone at sunset is a waste of day.

And then you simply lynched an AFK. Well, good!

Then yesterday everyone followed Meta's gambit and SOMEHOW managed to get the Godmother. Well, on the other side Words was veeeeeeeeeeery different from the previous game, and acting as VerrKol had pointed out, so.

But now that there's no obvious mafia around, you guys are lost, discussing idiotic things, like pointing out the obvious, picking on flavored posts on day one, getting pissed off at bad events, or making such weak accusations, that they are completely devoid of good arguments and are not even accompanied by a vote.

Seriously, man up. Or are you going to go like Day 1, in which one or two people decided to vote for Sega cause he was AFK, and the rest decided to just go and wagon him "cause there was no better option" or something like that?

You're all too defensive and afraid. We're not going anywhere like this.

Well, of all the defensive and afraid people, Luvd is the most shady for me. Usually his posts are small, meaningless, neutral or filled with very weak suspicions. Voting for HolyPie and Kyra seems idiotic, unless he thinks that the two of them plus Olsi and Chaotic are part of the mafia and are playing us really, really hard.

As desperate our situation may seem, I don't think we're all so enthralled we couldn't see that coming. So for now I'll vote for him.

[Vote] LuvDWayULie

Edit: Oh. Looks like Khaini is actually considering the Holy-Olsi-Chaotic-Kyra being mafia. I still think he's just terribly mad with what just happened and is angrily turning whatever came to his head first. Calm down, bro. No mafia has the guts to claim double cop.

When I was mafia I did imagine some very audacious plans, but I never got the rest of my team to accept. It's just too risky and insane. Meta used yet another gambit, and look at what happened to him. Anyway, rationalize, Khaini. I do not believe neither you nor Holy are mafia. I'll remain with my vote.

[Vote] faonkarino
Need to protect myself. I was merely stating my suspicions, which is not wrong, right? Yes, it might seem meaningless to you, but I believe it's meaningful.

I've not even thought of the Holy-Olsi-Chaotic-Kyra gang, and you now made it up. I've only thought of the possibility of ONE of them being a mafia cop, not BOTH.

Yes, it might seem ridiculous to you too, but I think it's logical enough. I know you might think that me voting for a cop would get myself lynched as I'm being suspected a mafia, but I'm not, really. I'm just an apple, and an apple that's all.

You're voting the wrong person, and I believe you'll regret your decision.

[EDIT] In case someone says that I was randomly voting people on Day 1, I did not get the hang of mafia game at first. I know the rules, but my skill as a player was horrible, and maybe it still is.

1st, calm down, it's ONE vote. Voting in me does not equal protecting yourself, on the contrary.

Second, nice OMGUS²

Third, well, prove me wrong. Instead of just OMGUSing me, actually think a little and create a post with good arguments against whoever you suspect.

I must give you an applause though, that defense of yours was your most elaborate post. Raise the bar a little more and I'll be satisfied and maybe remove my vote.

Yes, in case you didn't know, votes are not permanent.

Fourth, I assumed that was the reason you thought they were suspect, since you didn't say anything. Alas, if that's not the reason, then what is? That's the only reason that came to my mind to suspect them, and besides, Khaini apparently thinks so too.

[Vote] faonkarino

Need to protect myself. I was merely stating my suspicions, which is not wrong, right? Yes, it might seem meaningless to you, but I believe it's meaningful.

You seem to think voting for someone that voted against you protects you. It does not at all. If anything, it looks pretty stupid, especially since you really don't have much to protect yourself with. Having "gut feelings" and suspicions without any reasons at all is great and all, but if you can't explain why its hard to trust.

[MENTION=13694]faonkarino[/MENTION]; Thank you for the well thought out and reasoned response.

[MENTION=846]Corn[/MENTION]; and [MENTION=7423]TheBirds[/MENTION]; You guys really need to speak up, staying silent does not help you at all.

[MENTION=1087]Shidoshi[/MENTION]; Mind explaining why "yesterday" you thought @CakesXD was suspicious? He has not said too much (maybe because of rl), but any reasons you felt suspicious could help

I'm going to hold of voting for now, incase something comes up, but I'm also leaning towards @LuvDWayULie if [MENTION=846]Corn[/MENTION]; and [MENTION=7423]TheBirds[/MENTION] respond. Corn and Birds are not too active, so I don't see how killing them would hurt us more than an active townapple. And If they have legitimate reasons or you want them to stay, I found LuvDWayULie to be less helpful than some others.


Also something to note, but in a previous game there was a mafia that had the ability to hid as a townsfolk. Perhaps having two cops that see things from a different view takes this into account. One cop can see how the person appears to be good or bad, and the other can see if their intentions are good or bad? Just something to think about.

There seems to be a pattern of the mafia members falling more silent, but then again RL can interfere. Mafia mebers would not be as invested in the discussions though.

1st, calm down, it's ONE vote. Voting in me does not equal protecting yourself, on the contrary.

Second, nice OMGUS²

Third, well, prove me wrong. Instead of just OMGUSing me, actually think a little and create a post with good arguments against whoever you suspect.

I must give you an applause though, that defense of yours was your most elaborate post. Raise the bar a little more and I'll be satisfied and maybe remove my vote.

Yes, in case you didn't know, votes are not permanent.

Fourth, I assumed that was the reason you thought they were suspect, since you didn't say anything. Alas, if that's not the reason, then what is? That's the only reason that came to my mind to suspect them, and besides, Khaini apparently thinks so too.

I'm actually very calm, if you haven't noticed

Secondly, I know it's one vote, but one vote can generate a lot of activity, which may get me lynched. You might think that it's not that impactful, but I'm very afraid, as you will lose another townie.

Third, I know that votes are not permanent. I actually removed all my votes and voted on No Lynch on Day 1/

Fourth, the reason why I thought they were suspects is because I thought that one of them has the power to track and kill. Two people were killed yesteraday, one having the power to kill a player as a Townie. As Verrkol has been already killed, and his power was lost because of the killing of Words, I believe one of the cops is actually a mafia who is either pretending to be a cop or a double agent. Again, it might look like a weak assumption to you, but I believe and stand in my assumption.

I will remove my vote for you at the end of the day, I just want to see more activity first from the others.

You seem to think voting for someone that voted against you protects you. It does not at all. If anything, it looks pretty stupid, especially since you really don't have much to protect yourself with. Having "gut feelings" and suspicions without any reasons at all is great and all, but if you can't explain why its hard to trust.

faonkarino; Thank you for the well thought out and reasoned response.

Corn; and TheBirds; You guys really need to speak up, staying silent does not help you at all.

Shidoshi; Mind explaining why "yesterday" you thought @CakesXD was suspicious? He has not said too much (maybe because of rl), but any reasons you felt suspicious could help

I'm going to hold of voting for now, incase something comes up, but I'm also leaning towards @LuvDWayULie if Corn; and TheBirds respond. Corn and Birds are not too active, so I don't see how killing them would hurt us more than an active townapple. And If they have legitimate reasons or you want them to stay, I found LuvDWayULie to be less helpful than some others.


Also something to note, but in a previous game there was a mafia that had the ability to hid as a townsfolk. Perhaps having two cops that see things from a different view takes this into account. One cop can see how the person appears to be good or bad, and the other can see if their intentions are good or bad? Just something to think about.

There seems to be a pattern of the mafia members falling more silent, but then again RL can interfere. Mafia mebers would not be as invested in the discussions though.

I have explained it below Please do check. Yes, again, it might seem weak to you, but I stand strong with my assumption. I need more information from the two alleged cops though.

Secondly, I know it's one vote, but one vote can generate a lot of activity, which may get me lynched. You might think that it's not that impactful, but I'm very afraid, as you will lose another townie.

One vote can generate activity. But a vote in defences usually does not. We all know it is a vote in defense, so there is not much reason to support it, and it makes you look a little too... I guess quick to the draw? [MENTION=13694]faonkarino[/MENTION]; Had a well reasoned post, and immediately voting for him because he voted for you won't really help you, especially because he went more in depth and added more. His post contained much more information than your responses did.

I also notice you don't seem to post much unless you are mentioned now, and a lot of it is to protect yourself or deflect.

And try not to double post, you can always edit and add it in.

I'M READING I'M READING I'M TWO DAYS BEHIND.

Oh god this is a bigger mess than yesterday. Khaini, I didn't blindly follow you in believing Meta, I legitimately thought she was a cop because seriously, who would pull the same trick twice? I'll admit that last post was reactionary and voting for you probably isn't the best course of action, but blindly lashing out at me because I didn't follow your plan really isn't helping the town. And I'm fairly certain that neither of us is insane unless Kyrastri is mafia or for some reason just saying she got the same result as I did, which I really doubt. So we're not in my worst imagined scenario.

As for faonkarino, what he says is true, we're all being defensive and not thinking rationally. I agree with his points on LuvD, lots of erratic voting and OMGUS and informationally devoid posts, and of how much that can be attributed to newness, I'm not sure. It really does seem overboard though, most new players (like Sega, TheBirds, CakesXD, etc) tend towards silence. Now this could be eagerness, or the fact that the default lynch now seems to be silent people, but I'm not sure. And no, you don't have to "protect yourself".

EDIT: oh god so many posts

I'm actually at class IRL.

I don't even look at my notifications when I post things. My timings are random throughout the day as I'm on the move (Class to home, home to class)

Yes, I know faon's is much more detailed and mine's not detailed enough.

A lot of posts, I admit, are to defend myself. My deflective posts are just to suggest another scenario (Remember Words earlier? I said he might not be the one, and I'm glad I didn't change your minds)

I'll remove my vote for faon, just not now.

[EDIT]
Never mind, I'll just remove my vote, since my main vote was not faon at first.

Yes, I'm the eager player who does not want to keep quiet.

But if you really want to vote for me, go ahead. I believe you will regret your decision, as I said earlier, because I'm a townie. A puny one in fact.

Let's see if we can all calm down a bit and maybe not pineapple this up further. If I'm going to be a point of contention for Khaini, here: My name is Caramel Carl. To put this the best I can without risking obscenity, I enjoy putting caramel on myself while Watching others at night. I'm told if people act on that person. The reason I was pushing for one target was so that I could vet that the cops even existed by watching that person. So last night I watched Olsi, of course, and sure enough I saw two people just watching him. To me this confirms that both cops are indeed that, but I wasn't even given their actual actions, let alone their names. My role PM was vague and I expected to get more than that, so if this costs us, I'm sorry for my stupid plan.

Now, I'm suspicious of Khaini for starting this mess but if that last post was anything other than legitimate anger, I'd be surprised, so for the time being I'm going to tentatively believe that he's town. So we can narrow down who we can actually trust out of this mess, I want flavor information from both [MENTION=10411]Kyrastri[/MENTION] and [MENTION=41]Holypie[/MENTION]. For now, I think we can trust Olsi given that both of you got the same result. CJ gets the same tentative trust as Khaini because we don't know about Kyrastri alone yet. I'm not sure about anyone else that's living.

If I'm going to trust both Holy and Kyrastri, my belief is that this leaves us with:

INNOCENT:
3. VerrKol;
9. xBTAx;
10. Kyrastri;
12. y0y0y0y0shi0;
14. Sega;
16. Holypie;
17. Olsi;
18. MetaSeraphim;

MAFIA:
8. Words;

TENTATIVE TRUST
5. ChaoticCJ;
15. KhainiWest;

UNKNOWN
1. Corn;
2. Niernen;
4. Shidoshi;
6. Polantaris;
7. LuvDWayULie;
11. TheBirds;
13. faonkarino;
19. CakesXD;

So unfortunately, two of the unknowns are new players who haven't contributed much but might have legitimate reasons for it, and one is faonkarino, who is inherently hard to read due to being a complete reverse of how Cookie was posting. So for now, I'm going to go with the quiet one without an excuse and [Vote] TheBirds. I will gladly be convinced otherwise but that's what I'm starting with.

And I'm fairly certain that neither of us is insane unless Kyrastri is mafia or for some reason just saying she got the same result as I did, which I really doubt.

Thats actually a possibility. Its hard to confirm if you both say the same thing, but the person that replies last is naturally seen as more suspicious because they could just be parroting to protect themselves.

Meta was not the cop. Just one thing I would like to point out at the people saying Holy-Olsi-Kyra could be mafia all working together: Wouldn't the real cop come out then? Of course, they may not be believed, or it could be a ploy by the mafia to protect themselves while drawing out the cop, but it seems unlikely.

[MENTION=846]Corn[/MENTION]; read faster But now that you are active, its looking like [MENTION=7423]TheBirds[/MENTION]; or @LuvDWayULie are the most suspicious for now.


Just a thought, but those of you that don't have as much time and fell behind, you could allways pineapple or pom posts you agree or disagree with to show you read them if you don't have the time to respond to them,so everyone else knows you read them and are active.

[MENTION=3177]xBTAx[/MENTION];

I'm in class so I'll just be posting/paraphrasing my PM flavour.

"Someone visited me and bandaged a scrape.

When they left, I went to investigate Olsi. To me, he didn't seem suspicious, and when I left, I was convinced that he is a good apple."