New Root Abyss Equip Drop

-stuff-

Just FYI, even if you had a group of all DPSers of different classes, some classes are innately better at bossing than others. It's rather unfair to suggest that people should get less drops because they picked a class they like rather than a class that literally revolves around doing damage.

Just FYI, even if you had a group of all DPSers of different classes, some classes are innately better at bossing than others. It's rather unfair to suggest that people should get less drops because they picked a class they like rather than a class that literally revolves around doing damage.

Uh, what? That's exactly how maple works right now. Your damage is based on your class and funding. Come classes are obviously better at bossing than others. People already do get less/more drops based on the class they play.

People already do get less/more drops based on the class they play.

:f6:
Certainly not by default of the game.

I don't know if Vellum has god mode or something but wouldn't he be the next boss to farm?. If 4-6 people that soloed the other CRA bosses joined together, they could kill CVellum, and Weapons are still quite pricy as far as I remember, because beside the really overpriced Warrior equips, everything else is quite cheap anyways. So, at the end this system should benefit all parts. This will just end in something like empress all over again...

Also, for the people "worrying" about the long term, as an old player, I learned that the "long term" for equips is just as long as nexon decides that they can't profit more from them and release a new set... For example, Reverse-timeless-empress-fafnir (and we could have said Sweet water but they nerfed it to the point that it's stupid to even try...), Alien set,dominator pendant, event rings-Gollux, other equips before tyrants like Black fist cape, etc... Yeah, the list is so long that it's not even funny. So, as far as I know, this will only cause a deflation (that will probably last quite a while to reach the point of 50m per equip like KMS and even more if we never get kritias) in equips that I'm 100% sure will be outdated by a new set in less than 1 year from now (fafnir is 6 months old by now Iirc).

And people talking about ranges lol, we all know this game is about classes and nx if you main a class that has low dps (and also low weapon multiplier or weak damage formula), no elemental reset and pdr reduction, just don't cry when a Paladin or Zero kick you out of your cloud.

:f6:
Certainly not by default of the game.

What I meant by that I the class you play affects how much funding is required to kill bosses. So indirectly, the class you play affects the amount of drops you get because it affects which bosses you can kill.

:f6:
Certainly not by default of the game.

Classes like phantom night lord and bishops get a default amount of drop rate (phantom gets like 1.8x total with nl showdown, nl 1.4, bishop party 1.3x), so...yeah...

\Also, how do you calculate how many items total will be given out?
Should a soloer get as many items as a party of 6 equal attackers?
however this is calculated normally. A soloer will get as many drops as the max dpser in a party. nexon spits out a drop number (example =4) for one solo. suppose the formula is exactly the same result, with a party of 6. the highest damager will get that same (example =4) drop count, and each other party member will have weighted chance for each of (example =4) loots. A weaker member could get the same number, by 'formula luck' but will never get more than the top damager.
Example 1: 4 ppl each doing exactly 25% dmg, can each get the same loot, as one soloer; depending on nexon's current drops-per-boss formula.
Example 2: 2 ppl do 30% dmg each, and 4 ppl do 10% each. the 2 ppl will get the maximum amount of loot the formula spits out to them, and the weight formula will apply for each drop, for each of the 4 ppl.

Current drop system doesn't have a number of loots, it just has a rate for each item.

So eg.
10% Thief Top
10% Warrior Top
(etc)
50% Twisted Time
100% Power Elixirs

You can still get every equip, it's just pretty unlikely at 10% each.

If you have a big drop multiplier, you change the percents, so say on 8x, each item is 80% droprate.

I guess if you want to do a weighted system, you'd just multiply by the percent of their damage. So whoever does the most has a100% drop rate, everyone else has a lower overall multiplier.

Party drop doesn't really solve the issue of lack of party play well at all.

Honestly, for the most part, Maplestory bossing in regard to classes (and even in general) is pretty one dimensional. The only support classes I can think of that don't relate to more damage are the classes that can resurrect party members and those with bind. This is especially true on the newer bosses that deal % hp damage. This matters because as long as defeating every boss relies 90% on just pure damage, eventually the power creep is going to catch up to the boss and it'll be more beneficial to solo rather than go in a party.

Right now, the party drop system doesn't really encourage party play because for every party member you bring, you could just bring a mule that you don't have to split money with instead, if you are strong enough. Thus, party drop or no party drop, you are only required for your damage, and we all know how fast damage standards change in Maplestory. I do feel like it is a good system if each member of the party has to contribute to the kill, because it's a good way to safely split drops. But, the scenario where each member contributes equally and is equally required to bring down a boss becomes pretty rare in Maplestory as people get stronger.

To fix party play, there has to be a complete change in not only boss mechanics, but also class roles (there are pretty much no roles at the moment). Lowering the drop rate is a temporary economic fix and the party drop system does nothing except contradict lowering the drop rate by raising the drop rate.

I never thought about it like this, but diversifying classes would also partially alleviate the power creep/boss problem by making damage less of a main focus and more of a major side benefit. Maybe 5th job.

:f6:
Certainly not by default of the game.

What I meant by that I the class you play affects how much funding is required to kill bosses. So indirectly, the class you play affects the amount of drops you get because it affects which bosses you can kill.

Directly, certain classes can increase their own drop rate: bishops, thieves, slayer etc

I guess if you want to do a weighted system, you'd just multiply by the percent of their damage. So whoever does the most has a100% drop rate, everyone else has a lower overall multiplier.

yes. ^this.

Directly, certain classes can increase their own drop rate: bishops, thieves, slayer etc


yes. ^this.

Why are you suggesting a problem that hasn't been here for years? Anyone here had a loot mule problem in the last, I don't know, 3 years? What you're suggesting is an increased prejudice against certain classes because they don't have the multiplyers to by default compete.

Why are you suggesting a problem that hasn't been here for years? Anyone here had a loot mule problem in the last, I don't know, 3 years? What you're suggesting is an increased prejudice against certain classes because they don't have the multiplyers to by default compete.

i dont know if you've read the other pages in the thread but let me sum up so you dont miss the point. NEW LOOT CHANGE:

(paraphrased) CRA & Empress now have individual loot for each party member. one funded atker can take 5 loot mules for 6x loot just for himself, or the extreme opposite, an average party of 6 can kill a boss and not worry about loot snipers

this dwarfs any old loot comparison; or are you complaining about the classes themselves, because nexon created some classes with increased drop rate?

i dont know if you've read the other pages in the thread but let me sum up so you dont miss the point. NEW LOOT CHANGE:


this dwarfs any old loot comparison; or are you complaining about the classes themselves, because nexon created some classes with increased drop rate?

The solution isn't to take a ridiculous system and replace it with an equally ridiculous system. So it's you who missed the point, evidently.

i dont know if you've read the other pages in the thread but let me sum up so you dont miss the point. NEW LOOT CHANGE:

How is this any different from taking loot mules to ©Zakum so I could have all the one-of-a-kind helms to sell for myself?

People have been using loot mules since forever.
The only problem with the new Empress and RA is that the total amount of loot has increased drastically (even more than sixfold, if I understood correctly). I expect that to change. The individual loot system, by itself, is a good thing.

How is this any different from taking loot mules to ©Zakum so I could have all the one-of-a-kind helms to sell for myself?

People have been using loot mules since forever.
The only problem with the new Empress and RA is that the total amount of loot has increased drastically (even more than sixfold, if I understood correctly). I expect that to change. The individual loot system, by itself, is a good thing.

I'm all for individual loot. Let's get a random group together and there's no problems with loot stealers. (cwkpq & MoNs)
But, there is a difference between one-of-a-kind (untradeable) items, and fully tradeable RA loots. you needed the loot mule because zakum would drop more helms than a soloer could pick up. Before Party-Loot, any one person could loot all the RA/Empress drops, exactly equivalent to your "sell for myself" comment. Neither boss needed a loot-mule.

Post Party-Loot, a single player can take multiple accounts, all for self profit. I am against this kind of abuse, because of how drastically Party-Loot increases the total amount of drops the soloer gets. Take a whole attacking party into the boss and everyone who fights, gets to come out with a chance for loot, and not free-for-all loot madness like cwkpq.

What happens if nexon says RA equips are untradeable? Wouldn't that make the Party-Loot system equivalent to your zakum (or HTP) example? But of course people would outrage. Let the merchers buy a scissor to sell, just like zhelm & htp. Let the looters pay for runs and a random chance for drops.

The solution isn't to take a ridiculous system and replace it with an equally ridiculous system.

[MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; how about actually contributing to the discussion and not just flaming suggestions for improvements. If you dont like my suggestions that's fine. I'd like to see you offer any improvement suggestions, because the current Party-Loot at RA/Empress is unbalanced and broken.

KhainiWest; how about actually contributing to the discussion and not just flaming suggestions for improvements. If you dont like my suggestions that's fine. I'd like to see you offer any improvement suggestions, because the current Party-Loot at RA/Empress is unbalanced and broken.

I suggest you learn the actual terminology of "flaming" before trying to use it. The idea is ridiculous because it panders to a greater problem of misbalances of classes. You missed the point I made, then unintentionally, clearly, but just as hypocritically, claimed I missed the point.

The system is broken much like I would say 2/3rd's of maplestory to begin with. You want a solution for fair drop exchange? Have rolls for it. Almost every other game has this for good reason, if you go with random's you at least have a chance that is outside of everyones control, or with friends where you negotiate who gets it or not anyway.

Your feature essentially glorifies the big dps classes even more, you didn't even consider classes that aren't even designed to do damage but support. In fact I believe your line of thinking is backwards as it's more on the lines of trying to remove the loot mules since people will be using them.

So if you want to make reasonable suggestions, how about you actually play other MMO models to find out what the f`uck they do because the answer is pretty damn easy.

edit: also if you havent noticed if you're quoted your acknowledged, I don't understand the point of you mentioning.

words, thoughts, feelings, snipped for relevance

The system is broken much like I would say 2/3rd's of maplestory to begin with. You want a solution for fair drop exchange? Have rolls for it. Almost every other game has this for good reason, if you go with random's you at least have a chance that is outside of everyones control, or with friends where you negotiate who gets it or not anyway.

Your feature essentially glorifies the big dps classes even more, you didn't even consider classes that aren't even designed to do damage but support. In fact I believe your line of thinking is backwards as it's more on the lines of trying to remove the loot mules since people will be using them.

P.S. I can c`urse if i use s`pecial c`haracters in b`etween, because c`ursing helps make my p`oint.

This thread isnt about how maplestory is unbalanced. Just about everyone on Southperry already knows that. The rest of us are discussing how to better the loot system. Join us.

The current game already caters to "the big dps classes". my system does nothing to take away from all the hard work, or money, a player does to get all that much dps. It actually gives a higher ratio of loot chance, than a directly proportional dps ratio would. By comparing individual damage done against the top dpser instead of against total dps.

a 2m~2m player doesnt want to roll dice with an unfunded Leafre store-bought equiped player. If I do the most damage to the boss, I want the biggest portion of loot. Even if I only do 1% dmg more than the next person. A completely random dice roll is unbias, but in every mmo that i've played, the community either complains about the dice roll or mod it with improvements, like adding some sort of weighted system of loot priority. I don't know a single manufacturer-made loot system that game players don't complain about. I offered my suggestion. Either add to it and make it better, or suggest something else. There is no benefit except self-gratification, when your criticism can't be constructive.

[MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; how about actually contributing to the discussion and not just flaming suggestions for improvements. If you dont like my suggestions that's fine. I'd like to see you offer any improvement suggestions, EDIT: instead of just ridiculing, because the current Party-Loot at RA/Empress is unbalanced and broken.

[MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; yes, I know.

Every thread is about how maplestory is unbalanced. Just about everyone on southperry already knows that. Except you.

This thread isnt about how maplestory is unbalanced. Just about everyone on Southperry already knows that. The rest of us are discussing how to better the loot system. Join us.

Why are you asking me to join you when I'm already in the conversation. Telling you your idea is terrible is indeed part of the conversation, especially when I give you reasons for it. So really your statements are groundless.

Also you're exaggerating a single anecdote I said about how majority of maplestory is pretty much broken. Literally just a slight mention and you use that as your retort? You're really diggin from the bottom of the barrel arent you.

The current game already caters to "the big dps classes". my system does nothing to take away from all the hard work, or money, a player does to get all that much dps. It actually gives a higher ratio of loot chance, than a directly proportional dps ratio would. By comparing individual damage done against the top dpser instead of against total dps.

So by catering to the "big dps classes" you're saying that this is an okay system? When it get's down to it, it's either the hacker or the biggest spender(classes are a factor as well). This system overall is stupid, your idea supports it, thus also makes your 'system' just as ridiculous.

a 2m~2m player doesnt want to roll dice with an unfunded Leafre store-bought equiped player. If I do the most damage to the boss, I want the biggest portion of loot.

First off, name me one realistic situation where a player with max range would bring an "Npc geared" random? This example is ridiculous and would never happen, especially if the player needed to make a profit. It be charity work if anything, I know, that's how I played.

And here we see the root of all evil, the greedy notion that you feel entitled to the "loot" because you spent enough to do the damage. The notion of this is ridiculous, there are other important rules other than DPS and players should be rewarded for it. What you're doing is trying to guarantee a reward from a group goal all to yourself because you're the most well geared. No game does this for a reason, it causes not only a negative competition, gives priority for specific glass cannons, and increasingly widens the gap between nx and moderate spending players. Which is the opposite of what we want.

Even if I only do 1% dmg more than the next person. A completely random dice roll is unbias, but in every mmo that i've played, the community either complains about the dice roll or mod it with improvements, like adding some sort of weighted system of loot priority. I don't know a single manufacturer-made loot system that game players don't complain about. I offered my suggestion. Either add to it and make it better, or suggest something else. There is no benefit except self-gratification, when your criticism can't be constructive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_system Seriously, do your research. Most people prefer "need before greed" or random, assuming you play with randoms. Your perspective is too general. The only circumstance we need loot control like this is for random recruitments. Otherwise friends/guildies negotiate the drops at the end. Measuring a players contribution simply by DPS is such a narrow line of consideration that it shouldn't even be entertained.

KhainiWest; yes, I know.

Oh so you just like doing pointless things, I see. Kind of justifies everyone's perspective of you I guess.

a 2m~2m player doesnt want to roll dice with an unfunded Leafre store-bought equiped player. If I do the most damage to the boss, I want the biggest portion of loot. Even if I only do 1% dmg more than the next person.

I really would not like Maple to turn into Vindictus in where the community ends up making "Attack restrictions" for groups and you must have XYZ Range and/or must be able to hit ABC damage per line or you can gladly pineapple off.

A completely random dice roll is unbias, but in every mmo that i've played, the community either complains about the dice roll or mod it with improvements, like adding some sort of weighted system of loot priority. I don't know a single manufacturer-made loot system that game players don't complain about. I offered my suggestion. Either add to it and make it better, or suggest something else. There is no benefit except self-gratification, when your criticism can't be constructive..

There's only so much you can do to make "RNG Loot" better before you get to the point of allowing players pick and choose their rewards for killing bosses. No one likes RNG loot, because it's just that, RNG.

Oh so you just like doing pointless things, I see. Kind of justifies everyone's perspective of you I guess.

sounds like you just saw my name and had to respond thanks for the interest. im gonna try to address all the points of your gwot.

Why are you asking me to join you when I'm already in the conversation. Telling you your idea is terrible is indeed part of the conversation, especially when I give you reasons for it. So really your statements are groundless.

[indent]

Why are you suggesting a problem that hasn't been here for years? Anyone here had a loot mule problem in the last, I don't know, 3 years? What you're suggesting is an increased prejudice against certain classes because they don't have the multiplyers to by default compete.

The solution isn't to take a ridiculous system and replace it with an equally ridiculous system. So it's you who missed the point, evidently.

[/indent]
what reasons??? Telling someone their "idea sucks because it sucks", doesn't help the topic. you weren't actually contributing were you? Even your follow up comments don't reflect what my model represents.

Also you're exaggerating a single anecdote I said about how majority of maplestory is pretty much broken. Literally just a slight mention and you use that as your retort? You're really diggin from the bottom of the barrel arent you.

you're doing the same exact thing. You've got the longest comment so far. mostly hatorade.

First off, name me one realistic situation where a player with max range would bring an "Npc geared" random? This example is ridiculous and would never happen, especially if the player needed to make a profit. It be charity work if anything, I know, that's how I played.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole a 2m~2m character won't take such a person, unless it's a loot mule, which is also being discussed.

And here we see the root of all evil, /clipped

So by catering to the "big dps classes" you're saying that this is an okay system? When it get's down to it, it's either the hacker or the biggest spender(classes are a factor as well). This system overall is stupid, your idea supports it, thus also makes your 'system' just as ridiculous.

I can perspectivation different socioeconomic maple groupings just fine, so I can understand the 1%ers maple has. I, myself, have not been top dpser since unleashed raised the damage cap. [MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; I dont think you actually read what I wrote in my model. My suggested additions to nexon's new Party-Loot in RA/Cygnus actually benefits an entire party of similar funded players. It increases all their chances to loot, whenever the top dpser receives loot.

I'm not sure if a 100% guaranteed loot would work or not. Maybe there is benefit from adding a 5%-95% variance, to help account for support classes. The reason my model is general, is for a system that will work on every boss as well as to be improved upon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_system Seriously, do your research. Most people prefer "need before greed" or random, assuming you play with randoms. Your perspective is too general. The only circumstance we need loot control like this is for random recruitments. Otherwise friends/guildies negotiate the drops at the end. Measuring a players contribution simply by DPS is such a narrow line of consideration that it shouldn't even be entertained.

thank you for adding something with substance. Need b4 greed is popular, and ive seen it abused as well. But that just depends on the type of people invited to the raid. eHemm. need b4 greed is a weighted system. In maplestory an easy example of rng are/were mmbs. the number of different mastery books is over nine thousand! A hero opening wild arrow blast book, is just a disappointment. in this case, a weighted system leaned towards hero or even just warrior, would increase the chance of a hero getting beneficial skill book. Our current npc book system completely removes the rng, and only class specific books are chosen. However, the old mmbs are still in the game.

Weighted systems can be beneficial. How can Need b4 Greed be implemented into maple without player abuse? or without bogging down the server/client connection? Players have difficulty in bingo & yut