U.S. Government Shutdown

I'm surprised there are people who think we are actually in physical danger of a military strike.

Things probably would've gotten a little messy had the US attacked Syria, but even then I have serious doubts about what the scale of military retaliation towards us locally would have been.
It probably would have been another proxy war.

Sure, it may make people feel cool to be like
"America, man. Our military is so badass there's no way anyone would pineapple with us."
To personally identify with that Alpha image.

But the reality is in terms of war they're either irrelevant or fighting other smaller countries' battles, where our right to be involved is questionable at best and our motives are seriously misrepresented to generate public approval to feed the military industrial complex.

There is a very very good reason 100% of the wars fought between powerful nations over the past couple decades have been proxy wars.

We are the world consumer, and the world is now extremely interdependent. We are a HUGE part of the economy, regardless of the role.

A first world nation attacking another first world nation directly would be that nation shooting itself in the foot, cutting off it's nose to spite it's face. They would be seriously hurting themselves economically.
i.e. Probably not going to happen

If anything our governmental situation is entertainment fodder for other countries, any country around the world really.

I actually never asked you why you disliked A.C.A. or the government shut down. I simply asked you to explain your position since your key points tend to stand alone as being more representative of an emotional response than an actual opinion. I never asked you for 20 pages of reasons why you don't like it. I asked you to explain why you meant by your previous post. To clarify, I'm not interested in 20 pages of garbage from you. I just want a paragraph where you actually explain what your inflated opinions are actually about instead of being fed your typical Ayn Rand stylized b.s.



Congress has always been dysfunctional. The shut down doesn't expose anything new to the outside world. Congress being paid while this occurs isn't surprising. Let's compare Congress to a federal agency such as the IRS, Lois Lerner was making three months of income until last week on paid leave after she blatantly lied about her involvement in discrimination against conservative groups. People who are temporarily without work due to the shut down aren't confirmed to have been laid off. The subtle consideration of time is an important aspect to consider when it comes to distinguishing many things i.e. child abandonment and child day-care. There's no reason to mass lay off government workers at this point in the discussion. When you mention 'even more polarization' I have no idea what is being increasingly polarized. I don't think we are going to wipe ourselves out like a terrorist would try to wipe us out because of the shut down. This is one of those slippery slope moments where I feel like you go from Point A and jump to point Bizzaro World.



'They' would never think of attacking in the first place. 'That image' of the US has been undercut over and over again 'over the past year' or so to the point that 'any country' with an 'agenda' against us is literally just 'mocking and taunting us' at this point.



Who are our enemies. How do we appear weaker in any way or form compared to whatever status quo we have established to volatile factions across the world. What do you dislike about the Affordable Care Act.

Strike Points Addressed:From what I understand from you, being super intimidating leads to us being at peace. The government shut down prevents polarization of the country that will ultimately turn citizens into terrorists trying to wipe everyone out.

You missed my point on every single thing I said in there; THAT is why I don't think you would understand my arguments at length. It's not even about it being a waste of everyone's time, at this point.

 Spoiler

I honestly don't care about this topic enough in any case, I just was throwing in my 2 cents; I enjoy a stimulating debate, but this is neither, this is just beating a dead horse that's already been beaten a thousand times before.

I'll remain neutral on the subject, as it really no longer effects me.

However, I do appreciate how you guys debate as opposed to what I found on FaceBook this morning:

 Spoiler

I'll remain neutral on the subject, as it really no longer effects me.

However, I do appreciate how you guys debate as opposed to what I found on FaceBook this morning:

 Spoiler

I think I lost brain cells from reading this. And sadly this doenst come close to the worst I've seen from other comment outlets [for example, yahoo...]

I think I lost brain cells from reading this. And sadly this doenst come close to the worst I've seen from other comment outlets [for example, yahoo...]

SP is a very friendly and open minded place to discuss politics compared to most places, I think.

SP is a very friendly and open minded place to discuss politics compared to most places, I think.

Most forums are. The 4 other forums that I use are discussing it as well.

My dad managed to convince me that the shutdown is actually not as bad as I was thinking, after about 30 minutes or so. I stated my side that I've posted in this thread, and the response I got was, "I don't think that's the case. The lower class populace of those countries may be laughing at us, but the governing bodies are probably not; in many of their countries, this would not be a shutdown, because when people disagree there, wars start. Here, the opposing sides talk problems through, there, they try to kill one another".

So, I guess the only downside to this really is the layoffs. I've been watching the presidential speeches/grandstands over the last couple of days and poor Obama is getting more and more flustered; in one of them he literally said the stock market NEEDS to be dropping more, they should BE AFRAID OF THIS SHUTDOWN. "this time I think Wall Street should be concerned". I lol'd; he really does have an ego bigger than any president I've lived through, aside from maybe Clinton, since technically he thought screwing everything that moved was OK even though he is married. I hope it lasts until the debt ceiling issue, that way both sides will have actual leverage and real negotiations will start happening; right now it's just a stalemate between the stubborn and the retarded.

So, I guess the only downside to this really is the layoffs.

Being furloughed and being laid off aren't synonymous.

Being furloughed and being laid off aren't synonymous.

Neither gets paid, and that's all that really matters.

Neither gets paid, and that's all that really matters.

Hahaha wow.

Neither gets paid, and that's all that really matters.

Ugh. Really?

They are pushing a bill to backpay those furloughed and I think all the personal have gotten "Unemployment benefits", so although they are not the same, a missing paycheck is a missing paycheck doesn't matter what you call it.

Ugh. Really?

I'm sorry, is that incorrect? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm sorry, is that incorrect? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

When someone is laid off, they've lost the job. When someone is furloughed, their job has been put on hold.

You can't go back to a job you've lost. You can have rational expectations of returning to a job that has been put on hold.

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They are pushing a bill to backpay those furloughed and I think all the personal have gotten "Unemployment benefits", so although they are not the same, a missing paycheck is a missing paycheck doesn't matter what you call it.

Indeed. My father and brother are filing for it soon. The House and Senate are both pushing for furloughed employees to receive backpay, which is sure to make some heads roll, meh. As for myself...I was called to return to work shortly after and I am still expected to work while not receiving a paycheck (I'm guaranteed to be paid eventually while furloughed employees may or may not receive anything, although I recall reading every previous furlough has resulted in employees getting retropay).

When someone is laid off, they've lost the job. When someone is furloughed, their job has been put on hold.

You can't go back to a job you've lost. You can have rational expectations of returning to a job that has been put on hold.

//

Right. No other differences though? I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. Apparently from what you are saying though, it's not even as serious as I thought it was, so there are no downsides to this shutdown, they didn't really lose their jobs, just a paycheck or two. Which, hey, that sucks, but losing your job definitely sucks more.

Right. No other differences though? I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. Apparently from what you are saying though, it's not even as serious as I thought it was, so there are no downsides to this shutdown, they didn't really lose their jobs, just a paycheck or two. Which, hey, that sucks, but losing your job definitely sucks more.

People not working can be considered a 'downside'. However people who are furloughed at least know that work and wages are coming to them once everything blows over.

Just the fact that something as essential as NASA is heavily impacted by the shutdown baffles me. I only hope that we can manage to avoid another recession before the teabaggers are eradicated in 2014. If I were the president, I'd declare Boehner, Cruz and their old rich white ass buddies traitors, and order the military to have them executed for high treason.

Just the fact that something as essential as NASA is heavily impacted by the shutdown baffles me. I only hope that we can manage to avoid another recession before the teabaggers are eradicated in 2014. If I were the president, I'd declare Boehner, Cruz and their old rich white ass buddies traitors, and order the military to have them executed for high treason.

I love space exploration more than most, but since when is NASA essential to anyone but NASA?

I love space exploration more than most, but since when is NASA essential to anyone but NASA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/...important/

Bonus:
[video=youtube_share;RQhNZENMG1o]http://youtu.be/RQhNZENMG1o[/video]