The one thing I liked and miss the most of pre-BB Maple was the sense of adventure the game had back then. None of this "choose class, teleport to training spot and grind your ass off until you get tired". Back then going around exploring maps was not a "waste of time" as some people might label it nowadays, back then it was part of the gaming experience. You level, and besides getting more powerful you also "unlock" new areas to explore and train in without getting yourself slaughtered. *Gasp* Incentive to playing!
And that's one other thing that Maple lost. You COULD go explore any places you wanted at any level if you wanted but the risk of dying was pretty high. There was a sense of danger, and I remember fondly those times when I tried to reach the end of Ant Tunnel with my trusty lvl 20ish warrior. Or when I got stuck at Sleepywood right after leaving Maple Island until a kindred soul helped me get out of there (seriously, the whole Sleepywood dungeon back then was genius).
Anyway. What else I remember fondly? Looking for Hidden Streets. Falling on the Golem pit. Running from the Iron Pig. Grinding and chilling(to recover MP) at the Slime Tree. Taunting Crimson Balrog-t.
Yep, I miss the adventure and sense of danger that accompanied it.
To this day, I still don't understand why Nexon decided to "standardize" the stats of every monster nerfing them to hell in the process (my biggest beef with BB). Not like it really matters now, cuz potential.
Lance Wrote:Maple Then - Time,Skill,Effort,Better People, More to do (because nothing was just amazing exp really), all people were equal
I have to wonder if people who say these things even actually played maplestory in its early days. The game wasn't even close to "equal" for all people. And claiming that there is less to do now than there was back then is just plain ridiculous.
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2013-05-12, 09:10 PM (This post was last modified: 2013-05-12, 09:15 PM by Lance.)
Lozmaster Wrote:I have to wonder if people who say these things even actually played maplestory in its early days. The game wasn't even close to "equal" for all people. And claiming that there is less to do now than there was back then is just plain ridiculous.
I played since beta... so yeah i have, and allow me to correct myself or re-explain what i meant by "there was more to do due to the fact that everything was equal" My point being you could train many places and other places were equal. Nowadays its mostly decent exp vs amazing exp that you cant even compare. My point is you trained at more places. 1-10 had a spot, 10-20 had a spot, 21-30 KPQ or train, 35-50 LPQ or train. And so on, nowadays the exp goes from basically skeletons 10-30, cds til around 40, scarecrows til about 50, then jesters til like 80-90. Aliens, then LHC/SH til your'e 200. There were many paths you could take, IE, more to do/train on and it be efficient. Nowadays its literally NLC->LHC>SH>200
Also the equal part. Are you kidding? Everyone was equal and fair starting off, found their own things, trained themselves and worked for what they got. Now its people start out, have more IRL money and are already at an advantage cuz thats all the game takes now. That isn't equality. Starting off in the same position and getting what you work for is equality. Also even if someone was so godly they only hit around 5-10k more damage than others; i find that damage a lot closer to equal than i do when i see people hitting 1m caps and others hitting 80-100ks.
I felt their was a higher sense of accomplishment and you could explore the entire victoria island map and quest around to have fun but now it is just train and train. I still play the game for skillsets which is why I enjoy my Buccaneer so much and I am looking for a new class that isn't as non generic that is fun. I remember grinding my White Knight who were god awful back then at Wyverns from 100-120 and getting 5%/hr at 115-120
I played buccaneers because of the difficulty and because they were the only class that was brawling and dragon dancing was legit. There was one time when I was around 120 ish and I broke 4th job and I went to ToT and just started using snatch bsb + csb just to mob and used all my skills. It felt so smooth and elegant.
MS now is just whoever has the most money. I plan to play classes by gameplay and for grinding purposes, not for damage.
Alex123123 Wrote:The one thing I liked and miss the most of pre-BB Maple was the sense of adventure the game had back then. None of this "choose class, teleport to training spot and grind your ass off until you get tired". Back then going around exploring maps was not a "waste of time" as some people might label it nowadays, back then it was part of the gaming experience. You level, and besides getting more powerful you also "unlock" new areas to explore and train in without getting yourself slaughtered. *Gasp* Incentive to playing!
And that's one other thing that Maple lost. You COULD go explore any places you wanted at any level if you wanted but the risk of dying was pretty high. There was a sense of danger, and I remember fondly those times when I tried to reach the end of Ant Tunnel with my trusty lvl 20ish warrior. Or when I got stuck at Sleepywood right after leaving Maple Island until a kindred soul helped me get out of there (seriously, the whole Sleepywood dungeon back then was genius).
Anyway. What else I remember fondly? Looking for Hidden Streets. Falling on the Golem pit. Running from the Iron Pig. Grinding and chilling(to recover MP) at the Slime Tree. Taunting Crimson Balrog-t.
Yep, I miss the adventure and sense of danger that accompanied it.
To this day, I still don't understand why Nexon decided to "standardize" the stats of every monster nerfing them to hell in the process (my biggest beef with BB). Not like it really matters now, cuz potential.
You can still do all of that, you know. It's not written anywhere that in order to play Maple you have to grind at a particular map for x amount of levels.
I still find enjoyment in doing the very things I used to do before BigBang. I explore higher level maps on my characters, take on monsters I have no place taking on, and doing party quests with random folk for fun rather than XP.
TrollHunter Wrote:The days when I could go down the pit with the forest golems near henesys on my defense beginner. Ahhh the process was so fun.
Sit down there taking 1 damage
Drop a bunch of 1k meso bags
Watch all the nooblets jump down to their death
Now I train on these golems at Lv.10... bleh
Man, FoG was the bomb from 6x-8x back then. Relatively easier to get to compared to coolies, and the KS wars were oh my god unbearable during 2x events
Lance Wrote:I played since beta... so yeah i have, and allow me to correct myself or re-explain what i meant by "there was more to do due to the fact that everything was equal" My point being you could train many places and other places were equal. Nowadays its mostly decent exp vs amazing exp that you cant even compare. My point is you trained at more places. 1-10 had a spot, 10-20 had a spot, 21-30 KPQ or train, 35-50 LPQ or train. And so on, nowadays the exp goes from basically skeletons 10-30, cds til around 40, scarecrows til about 50, then jesters til like 80-90. Aliens, then LHC/SH til your'e 200. There were many paths you could take, IE, more to do/train on and it be efficient. Nowadays its literally NLC->LHC>SH>200
Yeah everyone has played since beta. The game hasn't changed at all, the monsters did, not the concept. 1-10 was maple island, quest experience made it less retarded to get to level 10. 10-30 was essentially henesys hunting ground, pig's beach, green mushrooms followed by horny mushrooms. Level 30 onward was wild boars, fire boars, then drakes/maci's, depending on whatever era. The thing was, you trained to fight balrog, that's it. The illusion that it was better was because it was a mystery to you. Now you're bored because you see the peek of the tower.
Lance Wrote:Also the equal part. Are you kidding? Everyone was equal and fair starting off, found their own things, trained themselves and worked for what they got. Now its people start out, have more IRL money and are already at an advantage cuz thats all the game takes now.
...Meso buying wasn't exclusive to today's generation. Not to even mention the class advantage difference. Hermit's wrecked, warriors were unkillable, mages had it extremely easy early job's, and could maximize their potential at certain maps to get mad drops. (see red drakes to i/l). It's kind of ironic because the thief (sin branch) was considered the end all be all, and they were the last addition they added before the actual release. So they are the first real "legend" broken class released.
Not to mention the monopoly chief bandits had on zakum with meso explosion. Or the benefits of hermits and Onyx apples.
Lance Wrote:That isn't equality. Starting off in the same position and getting what you work for is equality. Also even if someone was so godly they only hit around 5-10k more damage than others; i find that damage a lot closer to equal than i do when i see people hitting 1m caps and others hitting 80-100ks.
You do realize you're only talking about...a less than what? 6-8 month period of the game? Compared to the 8 years it's been available. I want you to think about that real quick, the moment gachapon and 2x cards came out, including 2x drop which doubled meso output, even trippled at vikings considering the illbis drops, destroyed this fallacy of "fair play" you have developed. So to put it bluntly, you have essentially watch this game balloon into this monster and tolerated it, (we'll round up) for 7 years? As a beta player should be ashamed not proud.
Lance Wrote:I played since beta... so yeah i have, and allow me to correct myself or re-explain what i meant by "there was more to do due to the fact that everything was equal" My point being you could train many places and other places were equal. Nowadays its mostly decent exp vs amazing exp that you cant even compare. My point is you trained at more places. 1-10 had a spot, 10-20 had a spot, 21-30 KPQ or train, 35-50 LPQ or train. And so on, nowadays the exp goes from basically skeletons 10-30, cds til around 40, scarecrows til about 50, then jesters til like 80-90. Aliens, then LHC/SH til your'e 200. There were many paths you could take, IE, more to do/train on and it be efficient. Nowadays its literally NLC->LHC>SH>200
Also the equal part. Are you kidding? Everyone was equal and fair starting off, found their own things, trained themselves and worked for what they got. Now its people start out, have more IRL money and are already at an advantage cuz thats all the game takes now. That isn't equality. Starting off in the same position and getting what you work for is equality. Also even if someone was so godly they only hit around 5-10k more damage than others; i find that damage a lot closer to equal than i do when i see people hitting 1m caps and others hitting 80-100ks.
The only part I agree on is on the inequality, although not so much. Mostly on the fact that it's pretty damned hard to match up to the NX buyers because of potential. This wouldn't be as big of an issue if the MTS was still around, but since hackers and exploiters ruined it for us...
But like [MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION] said, the classes have never really been that equal to begin with. The problem is just that the main four (five) classes have essentially become useless compared to the new ones (unless you're a bishop, but now you're just needed to be a skill mule for Phantoms hurrhurr). But they're only as useless as you make them to be. People play the new classes to death, but those who are still playing their old classes aren't really ignored. The problem is that there's literally no reason to play an Adventurer class other than character cards because the new classes are simply better and more broken. So the inequality has always been there, but it's just shifted from within the Adventurer classes to between class types.
[MENTION=2375]Mazz[/MENTION]'s Project Nostalgia project has actually proven that there are more places to train at than one thinks. It was somewhat of an experiment to me, as well as a reach for the old days, because it proves that you can in fact still get up in levels without the need for the Haunted Mansion/Aliens/LHC/Monster Park (though to me that never really changed because I hardly play the non-adventurer classes to begin with and I hate the aforementioned places and stay far away from them). People hold this illusion that you can never go anywhere else to train because the EXP is so amazing, but because of that broken EXP, people hold dependence on them. There are in fact many other places to train at, even if the EXP is nowhere near as good. (Of course, getting to 200 is still a HUGE chore without SH because all we do is kill CZak for experience...)
I remember being a Page back when Ludibrium came out and always getting kicked from LPQ because people thought I was a Fighter and got mad when I didn't use Rage
Nion Wrote:Anyone here miss the old cursor?
I used to have it as my cursor on my old computer, haha.
Lance Wrote:I played since beta... so yeah i have, and allow me to correct myself or re-explain what i meant by "there was more to do due to the fact that everything was equal" My point being you could train many places and other places were equal. Nowadays its mostly decent exp vs amazing exp that you cant even compare. My point is you trained at more places. 1-10 had a spot, 10-20 had a spot, 21-30 KPQ or train, 35-50 LPQ or train. And so on, nowadays the exp goes from basically skeletons 10-30, cds til around 40, scarecrows til about 50, then jesters til like 80-90. Aliens, then LHC/SH til your'e 200. There were many paths you could take, IE, more to do/train on and it be efficient. Nowadays its literally NLC->LHC>SH>200
Except you're wrong. Back then it was still decent exp versus amazing exp. However, unlike now where it may be the difference of maybe say 10 levels an hour, it was 5% per hour. When you overtly gain more levels per hour the difference seems more immediate. And to further hinder your point, it's largely NLC and LHC that pose the greatest problem. If they altered the EXP of NLC monsters and made LHC a regular zone like they should have done eons ago, the problem would be less visible.
Hmm. My mind is a bit fuzzy but I'll try to remember stuff I did.
Grinding at Gryffons at NLC. DAT flying mob.
Stalking Number 1 at Grims (Dillinger back in Windia).
SquidsPT. Was awesome misting the whole map.
Only joining pq's where leader had AC.
Buying Zakum Runs 50m for Helm. I remember getting my first. My heart was pounding and I was hugging that wall like crazy.
Selling my first bigfoot leech. Twas hard as a shadower. Made a HB mule just so I could tank.
A lot of things from back in the days. Just hard to re-call.
I hated pre-BB maplestory. You grind and grind, only to grind some more. You might break it with PQs, and beating a boss felt like something, but game mechanics were so basic and controls so floaty that you never really felt directly in control but rather like you pressed a button and something just happened. The community is not the fault of the Big Bang, nor is the power creep. Those things were inevitable for a f2p MMORPG, all of those went through a rough start, a smooth "we sorta know what we're doing" period, and eventually went to pomegranate. Maplestory Nostalgia is stupid, because really, Big Bang meant you got more done and actually felt like you were making progress.
The only good thing about pre-BB in the game itself was the old cursor and relative untouchability of bosses. Community vs. Updates is a matter of Correlation vs. Causation. People don't like change, no matter how great.
Paying players had an advantage since they introduced exp and drop cards; exp doubling your meager experience (decent being 3% an hour, amazing being 5% an hour) and drop being able to more than triple income by farmnig rare items along with the increased mesos themselves.
So, maplestory is basically a wavy line; it was bad at some points, good at others, relatively unpredictable and generally not that excellent compared to other f2p MMORPGs like Rift or Everquest or Torchlight.
the only thing i would like to see on "new" maplestory is complex or different events those that made you kinda rage or keep online a lot of time(i dont know... like sheep vs wolf... naomi's event or agent event)... even so I see they're going on a good way... maplestory is just growing.
I'm not going to say that MapleStory was better before Big Bang, Ossyria, Fangblade, Cash Shop, MTS, etc, etc. However, I do have fonder memories of the game back during those times, mainly because it felt more like an adventure.
MapleStory was always about the adventure of doing something exciting and new for me. Exploring the vast world that the game offered was what kept me playing. The unveiling of Ludibrium, Ossyria, and the Third Job advancement were met with cheers and excitement. Everyone was happy to see these new additions to the game, and I remember eagerly waiting to see what awaited me beyond these new lands and gameplay mechanics. I remember talking with people on the boat rides to and from continents, usually showing off some new item or playing an omok game to pass the time. It's how I met most of the people on my friend's list, and made things a little more personal.
Party Quests were fun, and I remember rapidly clicking the NPC to get into a quest, hoping someone wouldn't change channel and beat me into the quest. I remember questing to pass the time and learn more about the lore behind the Maple Universe. I remember questioning how Orbis, El Nath, and Ludibrium all fit onto the world map. I remember venturing into the depths of El Nath hoping to get past the Yetis, or hoping I could travel down the dungeon on Victoria Island to find myself the mysterious Jr. Balrog.
Training-wise, I remember spending hours upon hours to gain a single level, but yet, I still enjoyed it. Talking with my friends, listening to music while I killed Jr. Yetis (With the chance of finding the occasional transforming Jr. Yeti), Zombies, Mixed Golems, Dual Ghost Pirates, and other monsters. I remember being asked to rage parties because nobody bothered with the Page/White Knight class. I remember the excitement of leveling to 70 and finally gaining the ability to charge my sword.
Nowadays, I'm not going to say MapleStory has necessarily gotten worse. But the sense of mystery and adventure seems to have vanished. The maps on Victoria Island in the past were twisted, often full of wrong turns and dead ends. The Hidden Streets and pointless maps may not have been useful, but they added that extra sense of exploration and adventure to each continent. When I look at the new maps, it feels like everything is streamlined to quicken the travel time. It's not an adventure, it's another hurdle to get from Point A to Point B.
I'll never see the game in the same light as I did in the past. However, I treasure the memories I have of the game. It was a big part of my life, and even though I don't play anymore, I still like to look back and think about the fun times I had with this game.
I realize, I love to ramble, so I've used spoilers to separate my post in to my memories and feelings on Pre-BB and Post-BB maple (because this is a huge post).
Pre-BB
My fondest memories of the game mostly involve doing things in groups, whether they be friends or perfect strangers. When I first started playing Maple, I loved killing slimes in that map right outside of Ellinia, the bottom portal; there were always so many people there. There were always people in HHG1 (often times there'd be people at the platform at the very top as well), in Hen by the taxi, in Ludi crowded around the clock tower.
When I started doing PQs, I stayed up the whole night, doing KPQ, then later LPQ. Some of it was frustrating, and I'm pretty sure just grinding was better than doing PQs, but, it was rewarding in its own way. I did those rush OPQs, and when we got it, Ludi Maze. Ludi Maze was super repetitive, I guess all the PQs were, but somehow, it didn't bore me at all. (Actually, I can see why it wasn't boring, doing it rewarded me with EXP and prizes every few minutes, instant gratification and all)
I leveled pretty slowly, I was guildless until 46 on my cleric, then I happened to stumble upon some old friends and joined their guild. From then on, the game become more social. I started talking to guild members, hanging out with them in game, stalking them. I remember visiting guild members at FoG, at Gobys, and when Leafre came out, even though I was but a lowly priest, I made my way through the Dragon Forest to sit there and watch my newly advanced 4th job friends train at Newts. Exploration was everything to me, I didn't really care for training at all.
It was with my guild that I started doing Zak, and from them I got my very first Zak helm. Bossing was kind of a rush, it was difficult to stay alive at first, but it got easier and easier. It took like an hour, around the time the pros were doing it in 10 minutes. I set time aside for our Zak runs every week, it was the high point of each week on Maple. I got a taste for bossing.
Things slowly got more and more complex though, guild alliances, I got to bishop, skeles, new classes, leeching, arguments over leeching, it's all kind of blurry to me. I remember when pirates came out, I was dead set on getting to 4th job so I could ride around on a little boat, it's funny though, of all the jobs I've made, I never got a Corsair before the pirate revamp.
We got Temple of Time, I spent all day with some guildies doing the quests, and by the end of the day, I had a screenshot of the three of us in the Broken Corridor. They also gave me all the Pieces of Time we had collectively gathered, which were only 14. After that Maker came out. I loved Maker, I used those pieces of time to make me some Reverse Mage shoes and sold them for the cost of 15 pieces of time, which was, like 105m I think. I made two Reverse staves when PoTs were 15m each as well, cost a small fortune, at least to me. And I scrolled them with 60% scrolls! And I was happy about that! Then Cygs came out. I made a Thunder Breaker, I'm pretty sure that was one of the first classes I trained with the intention of leveling really fast. I remember spending all night hunting for and leeching off of Bigfoot with my two friends, and I had a chance to get in the Hall of Fame, but I just stopped training. I had much better luck training Aran, but at 112, AT&T cut off my internet for a month (mistakenly, and the month of free internet following did nothing to subdue my anger).
At this point, I've gotten tired of my bishop. It was 172, I had almost endless hours of Skeles under my belt (some of those hours on 2x, 4x, 8x, back when family stacked with event 2x, and it was a 2x EXP party buff, running to the FM to get a new one every half an hour), bossing regularly, but just as a healer, dispeller, resser, HSer. Oh, and Guild PQ! Guild PQ was so fun, but it was a small guild and can you believe I ended up as the main attacker? Went through the crack in the pillar to the upper area, stood as close as I could, probably hugging the Iron Maiden, and spammed Gen until Ergoth was dead.
Dual Blades came out, I fell in love with the class, still love it today. It was so fluid and the idea of dual wielding daggers was more than just cool to me. And we had Thorns as a party buff, which as I recall was much better than SE for Warriors, possibly mages. I got it to 4th job a bit before before Big Bang.
One of my favorite things to do was CWKPQ. Did it since the day it came out. The bosses were kinda scary. I was still mainly playing my bishop at this time, I guess. No heal during Margana, dispell Redner, and when Rellik tried to pull his Snipe, holy shield to prevent the poison. It was awesome.
Post-BB
Then, of course, Big Bang came along. Changed the game. Easier to level, bosses were much less of a threat. I didn't realize it at the time, but the game was going to get less fun for me. But, not as a result of Big Bang. You see, by this time, a lot of my friends had quit, most of them not because of Big Bang, or anything, just, they moved on, I didn't. I still keep in touch with some of them, and I made new friends too, but it's not the same as before.
It's not just the game that changed, but I did too. I'm not sure if it was Big Bang that promoted the solo mentality, but I bought into it. There were so many difficult bosses, and I wanted to take them all on, after being a Bishop, support, all this time, I wanted to be the one doing the heavy damage at bosses; to bring other people with me, rather than me be the tag-a-long (but I guess that really started when Empress came out). I leveled, cubed, did whatever in order to get stronger, to be able to do bosses, and honestly, most of the money I used was out of my own pocket, I just don't have the mentality or patience for merching or anything like that.
Where as before, it took legions of characters to kill Zak in an hour, I now have legions of characters that can wipe out Zak in a heartbeat (I exaggerate on both counts, but I guess, not by much). I only dreamed of doing things like HT and PB, and now I find myself watching full episodes of cartoons in boredom as I'm forced to wait for HT drops, as either high defense or avoidability makes staying alive a joke. When CWKPQ came back, we had this huge group to do it, and I had just gotten Demon Slayer to 200, everyone did what we usually do, focus on Margana, have someone rush the bottom bosses, then kill those one by one. That is not what happened, I was the rusher, and before they were able to kill Margana, I had wiped out all three of the bottom bosses, and I became "that Demon Slayer who owned CWK". It was amazing.
Remember the Reverse staff I mentioned? It was above average and I landed 5, 5! 60% Staff for Magic Att. scrolls on it. I was ecstatic. Now I wouldn't dream of using anything less than a perfectly scrolled, unique or legendary Empress weapon.
Before, I was leveling fast just to see how far I could get, now I could compete for high ranks, at least in the server. I got my Mercedes to 152 on day one, and I was shocked. I wasn't even trying. Demon Slayer took me 18 days to get to 200, and it was my first. Then I got my Bishop and Dual Blade to 200, completing some of my oldest characters at last. Following them came my Phantom. Kaiser took me only 3 days, ~36 hours total of training. Finished my Paladin. Got Hayato to 200 in 5 days. Where as before, I used to visit my friends while they were training, now I was that crazy ass training for hours, spamming the Guild with my level up notices. I greatly enjoyed the rush, and, as a matter of fact, I still do. It's basically the only time when I'm really actively on Maple anymore, because I don't do squat any other time.
And then there's Empress. How I loathe Empress. I guess it really started with Danny. We became friends on kMS, people had just started doing Empress for V2 equips, and he needed a bishop to Empress, so I went with him. I went regularly, eventually I ended up spending $5 a run on wheels, and we were not successful. I made some of my very best friends on those runs, though. He wanted to take her down, and that feeling rubbed off on me. We killed V2 once, made a lot. When Demon Slayer came out, we formed a 6 person party and we did V2 every day, effortlessly. It felt great, especially the ~3b splits I was getting every week. Three of my level 200 characters were made specifically to deal with Empress, my Paladin, my Demon Slayer, and my Phantom. For over a year, my one goal was to finally kill Empress and everything I did was focused on making that happen.
And it did, killed her on my Phantom with friends, numerous times, once with Danny, too. There's a video of one of our runs in Maple Cinema.
And that was that. Now all I do is leave Maple on to chat with people while I do other things, like homework, or watch shows. That's it, Maple's just MSN or Skype or AIM, or whatever, except I've put more money into it than a used car.
In summary, if you don't care to read the walls of text behind the spoilers:
- Maple was fun for me because of all the people, both friends and strangers.
- Back then, PQs encouraged partying with strangers, at least.
- I also really enjoyed exploration.
- I'm not sure if it was really because of Big Bang, but, I had a more solo-oriented mindset afterwards, probably because of how easy things became.
- Ended up spending a ton of money to get stronger and boss after Big Bang. (I spent drastically less as my enjoyment of the game decreased, though)
- Now Maple is kind of boring, and I don't really play so much as I leave it on like some kind of chat client.
I don't think Pre-BigBang was really all that much better, I feel like it's more or less kinda the same, at least for me, but I was much less invested in the game before Empress came out, and I had a huge active guild which made the game more fun for me personally. And, it's not just the game that changed, I did too.
