Boss Damage Vs. Ignore Defense Rate.

As the title states I'd like to know which is more influential to have come the unlimited update that changes PDR ignore to multiplicative instead of additive, Is having more PDR ignore eventually going to outweigh Boss damage in terms of damage boosting, is the difference still in favor of Boss damage or is the difference negligible due too bosses having innate physical resistances?

Multiplicative PDR makes it less effective not more.
[MENTION=7678]ShinkuDragon[/MENTION]; has a table around here somewhere for the old additive stacking. Maybe if you ask really nicely he'll update it

Physical resistance changes nothing because it's an entirely separate mechanic. Your PDR has no affect on in at all.

My post was assumptive. The posts below are more accurate.

Welp guess boss damage it is then, Thank you for your quick responses.

http://blog.naver.com/PostList.nhn?from=...1¤tPage=37

Max range xenon.

공격 시 몬스터의 방어율 X% 무시 is PDR.

As you can tell, he has a lot of it.

The current assumption is that unless you can manage roughly 270%+ (additive) PDR, boss is more worth it. The multiplier is too damn low.

My 80% PDR sword, plus my 80% PDR heart gives me around 23% PDR to give you a rough estimate of how pomegranatety the system is now.

Does that PDR heart work similar to kaiser/ab emblems? Like an item you can buy in the store and cube it like a weapon (one that doesnt give boss dmg obviously) If you cannot buy it from a store, is it hard to obtain one of those hearts?

Does that PDR heart work similar to kaiser/ab emblems? Like an item you can buy in the store and cube it like a weapon (one that doesnt give boss dmg obviously) If you cannot buy it from a store, is it hard to obtain one of those hearts?

They work like Emblems, just buy them from the equipment shop NPC at Edelstein.

Really? You need 270+% PDR Ignore just for it to scale better than Boss Damage %? That's some bullshit there, Nexon.

Multiplicative PDR makes it less effective not more.
[MENTION=7678]ShinkuDragon[/MENTION]; has a table around here somewhere for the old additive stacking. Maybe if you ask really nicely he'll update it

Physical resistance changes nothing because it's an entirely separate mechanic. Your PDR has no affect on in at all.

it's impossible to update it, because everyone has different sources of PDR, to put an example, someone with a skill that gives 50% PDR, would ignore 50% of the enemy defense, but someone with 2 skills of 25% ignore would only ignore 43.75%, and someone with 5 sources of 10% would only ignore 40.951%

they all add up to 50%, but give different results due to how they are distributed.

i'd say that post-unlimited, getting 2 big sources of PDR (say, 40% on each weapon) would do the best for your damage at the hardest bosses. using current CPB PDR of 180%, getting 40/40 would leave CPB with 64.8% PDR left.

so i suggest (if pocket permits) a line of 30%+ PDR, with a line of bossing


DISCLAIMER: THIS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT PDR WORKS AS IT WAS STATED A WHILE AGO, I HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THE 270% PDR THINGUIE GOING ON ABOVE

Depends how much defense the boss has.

it's impossible to update it, because everyone has different sources of PDR, to put an example, someone with a skill that gives 50% PDR, would ignore 50% of the enemy defense, but someone with 2 skills of 25% ignore would only ignore 43.75%, and someone with 5 sources of 10% would only ignore 40.951%

they all add up to 50%, but give different results due to how they are distributed.

i'd say that post-unlimited, getting 2 big sources of PDR (say, 40% on each weapon) would do the best for your damage at the hardest bosses. using current CPB PDR of 180%, getting 40/40 would leave CPB with 64.8% PDR left.

so i suggest (if pocket permits) a line of 30%+ PDR, with a line of bossing


DISCLAIMER: THIS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT PDR WORKS AS IT WAS STATED A WHILE AGO, I HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THE 270% PDR THINGUIE GOING ON ABOVE

It isn't impossible, really.

Assuming "ignoreDEF" is an array of values, you can calculate it like so.

Code:

float physicalDEF() {
        float k = 1.0f;
        if(ignoreDEF.empty())
            return mobPDR;
        else {
            for(auto& i : ignoreDEF) //for every value in your ignoreDEF array.
                k *= (i/100); // k *= (i/100) is equivalent to k = k * (i/100) where i is the current value in ignoreDEF array.
            return mobPDR*k; //mobPDR * k is your physical DEF attribute.
        }
    }

It isn't impossible, really.

Assuming "ignoreDEF" is an array of values, you can calculate it like so.

Code:

float physicalDEF() {
        float k = 1.0f;
        if(ignoreDEF.empty())
            return mobPDR;
        else {
            for(auto& i : ignoreDEF) //for every value in your ignoreDEF array.
                k *= (i/100); // k *= (i/100) is equivalent to k = k * (i/100) where i is the current value in ignoreDEF array.
            return mobPDR*k; //mobPDR * k is your physical DEF attribute.
        }
    }

i'll repeat myself, i know zilch about coding. i know it's not impossible to calculate, but it's impossible to make a picture of "you have this much %ignore, boss has this much %def left" that works for everyone, i'd have to make something on excel that calculates it and then pass that file around, instead of just a picture like i do now.

It isn't impossible, really.

Assuming "ignoreDEF" is an array of values, you can calculate it like so.

Code:

float physicalDEF() {
        float k = 1.0f;
        if(ignoreDEF.empty())
            return mobPDR;
        else {
            for(auto& i : ignoreDEF) //for every value in your ignoreDEF array.
                k *= (i/100); // k *= (i/100) is equivalent to k = k * (i/100) where i is the current value in ignoreDEF array.
            return mobPDR*k; //mobPDR * k is your physical DEF attribute.
        }
    }

Shouldn't it be k *= (1-i/100)?

I've been trying to model the PDR rates on mobs and existing %PDR lines you have against a 25%Boss modifier. In general:

- If you already have a lot of %PDR lines, like say 80-100% after summing them up (roughly speaking), go get %Boss because those give more damage increase. This is true for bosses with a PDR of less than 100%.
- Against something more challenging like CPB (PDR is 180%), then with 2 lines of 30%PDR and 2 lines of 25% PDR (i.e. current rates: 110%), that you currently possess or more, a 25%Boss is superior to an additional 25%PDR line. In contrast, if you only have 1 30%PDR line and 2 25%PDR lines (i.e. current rates: 80%), then a 25%PDR line would give you a 60.8% damage boost, compared to a flat 25% boost from the %Boss line.
- Given that most classes already have 30-50% PDR from their skills and various "add-on"s (Ambition, Link skill etc) before considering equipment, the breakpoint for considering %Boss should be bosses with 80%PDR or less, and having no other %PDR lines i.e. the more %PDR you have, the better %Boss is compared to %PDR because of diminishing returns. In fact, if you even have a 15% PDR line on a single equipment and you have the other usual %PDR add-ons from skills and stuff, an additional 25%PDR line gives you 24% damage boost when attacking a boss with a PDR of 100% (e.g. CHilla).

For the record: to even do any damage against a 300%PDR boss (theoretical, can't remember where I heard about it), you need a line of 30%PDR and a line of 25%PDR on top of the usual add-ons (I'm assuming 25% from passive skill, 15% from Light Wash and 10% from Ambition... give or take), or 4 lines of 15%PDR. Goes without saying that %PDR is the way to go for such a boss...

Hadriel

Basically total PDR (additive) is not a useful number to look at any more.

Total PDR should be 1 - (1-PDR1)(1-PDR2)(1-PDR3)..., and goes from 0% to 100%.


This of course assuming that...
TotalDefenseLeft = 1 - TotalPDR
DefenseLeft = 1 - PDR
TotalDefenseLeft = DefenseLeft1*DefenseLeft2*DefenseLeft3...

Thank you all for your useful information

Basically total PDR (additive) is not a useful number to look at any more.

Total PDR should be 1 - (1-PDR1)(1-PDR2)(1-PDR3)..., and goes from 0% to 100%.


This of course assuming that...
TotalDefenseLeft = 1 - TotalPDR
DefenseLeft = 1 - PDR
TotalDefenseLeft = DefenseLeft1*DefenseLeft2*DefenseLeft3...

Noting this, is this the actual PDR formula? I understood it as as PDR - [( PDR*PDRignore1)*PDRignore2]*PDRignore3 If I'm understanding? where the largest source of a line of PDR ignore is 1, and the smaller sources after are lines 2, 3, etc. and you take that % of the remaining value from the previous lines?

Thank you all for your useful information




Noting this, is this the actual PDR formula? I understood it as as PDR - [( PDR*PDRignore1)*PDRignore2]*PDRignore3 If I'm understanding? where the largest source of a line of PDR ignore is 1, and the smaller sources after are lines 2, 3, etc. and you take that % of the remaining value from the previous lines?

I believe those formulas are equivalent.

edit: was doing other stuff, but I'm guessing PDR is the monster's def in your formula?

Anyways multiplying all the ignore% together doesn't exactly work. If you multiply 2 50% defense ignore together, 50% x 50% = 25%. That's like saying the more defense ignore lines you have the less defense you ignore.

I think you mean DEF - DEF * DEFIGNORE1 * [( 1 - DEFIGNORE1 ) * DEFIGNORE2 ] X {[ 1 - ( 1 - DEFIGNORE1 ) X DEFIGNORE2 ] * DEFIGNORE3 } * ...
which would be equivalent to DEF * ( 1 - DEFIGNORE1 )( 1 - DEFIGNORE2 )( 1 - DEFIGNORE3 )...

Shouldn't it be k *= (1-i/100)?

Ah right, my mistake. Well it should be 1 - (i/100) since i is an integer.

Ambition

Sorry to pull one word out of your post like that, but Ambition says "magic defense ignore" and is there proof it works on physical defense?

Also, Threaten's still gonna stack with anyone's PDR, right?

Sorry to pull one word out of your post like that, but Ambition says "magic defense ignore" and is there proof it works on physical defense?

Also, Threaten's still gonna stack with anyone's PDR, right?

It says Ignore Monster MAGIC DEF... implying it could just as well say Physical DEF too. Problem is that it refuse to show the whole sentence.

Sorry to pull one word out of your post like that, but Ambition says "magic defense ignore" and is there proof it works on physical defense?

Also, Threaten's still gonna stack with anyone's PDR, right?

Threaten lowers enemy defense rather than increasing your defense ignore, which is treated differently pre-Unlimited, but after this patch, it will be like any other defense ignore effect, I believe.