Patch Feedback Thread

GMS hayato is missing the 25% dodge on Willow that JMS has.

That's not true. I've had it activate many times during my trek from the time I maxed the skill to the time I hit level 100 and got Jinsoku level 1. The damage buff, however, does seem excruciatingly rare compared to how it is in JMS...

That's not true. I've had it activate many times during my trek from the time I maxed the skill to the time I hit level 100 and got Jinsoku level 1. The damage buff, however, does seem excruciatingly rare compared to how it is in JMS...

I'm glad that you are having the best luck of your life, but Willow is factually missing its 25% dodge. Its great that you're getting more dodges than I'am, but it doesn't change the fact that Willow's damage buff is hard to stack higher than 2, let alone keep it at that.

I feel as if this class is a much, much better fit for JMS, and should have stayed there. The engaging and intuitive playstyle of Hayato involving skill chainings is much more suited to training at places that are not mini-bosses. Having zipped through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd job so flippin' quickly left me wanting to do more combos in 4th job, only to find out that there is no fun allowed at LHC.

On the other, I wish I had places to train solo past 120 so that I could get the entire Hayato experience.

JMS has the same regular mobs as GMS. You are more than welcome to train JMS-style, instead of attributing your inability to enjoy the class (to its fullest) to GMS and its vastly superior levelling opportunities which are entirely optional.

I have only stacked it to 5 like... 3 times so far.
I really wanna attribiuted it to the fact that crockys attack way too slow and by the second hit they are already dead.
I wanna point out too that the way I stacked to 5 was because I was seeking the contact damage from them .

I'm glad that you are having the best luck of your life, but Willow is factually missing its 25% dodge. Its great that you're getting more dodges than I'am, but it doesn't change the fact that Willow's damage buff is hard to stack higher than 2, let alone keep it at that.

I don't think it is. I think you're just expecting too much from it. 25% isn't much at all, and neither is 60% of that 25% success rate. When you have maximum level Jinsoku, it's a lot easier, yet still rare, to get the damage buff to 5.

JMS has the same regular mobs as GMS. You are more than welcome to train JMS-style, instead of attributing your inability to enjoy the class (to its fullest) to GMS and its vastly superior levelling opportunities which are entirely optional.

thats like telling someone who is used to eating a full and well-balanced diet to go eat rocks and sticks instead.

no. training at these solo spots is more viable for JMS players because they don't have many better alternatives.

I don't think it is. I think you're just expecting too much from it. 25% isn't much at all, and neither is 60% of that 25% success rate. When you have maximum level Jinsoku, it's a lot easier, yet still rare, to get the damage buff to 5.

you can think what you want, but Fiel's extractions show no free 25% dodge anywhere. you may think 25% isn't much, but its a free chance to dodge 1 out of every 4 attacks, its alot. it is also another dodge source that can trigger Willow's damage buff, and not having Willow's dodge portion makes maintaining damage stacks really hard and frustrating.

thats like telling someone who is used to eating a full and well-balanced diet to go eat rocks and sticks instead.

no. training at these solo spots is more viable for JMS players because they don't have many better alternatives.

Yes, but that's ultimately your own preference. You prefer to train faster as opposed to having more fun while training. I respect that (because I do too). You're basically complaining about GMS for giving you a full and well-balanced diet, which is discouraging you from eating rocks and sticks. That doesn't exactly sound convincing.

you can think what you want, but Fiel's extractions show no free 25% dodge anywhere. you may think 25% isn't much, but its a free chance to dodge 1 out of every 4 attacks, its alot. it is also another dodge source that can trigger Willow's damage buff, and not having Willow's dodge portion makes maintaining damage stacks really hard and frustrating.

The level readouts are what's incorrect. The skill data for the dodge is there. If it wasn't, the animation would never occur. The beginner skill is not part of the animation-activating dodge rate. The beginner skill activates a MISS/GUARD.

The level readouts are what's incorrect. The skill data for the dodge is there. If it wasn't, the animation would never occur. The beginner skill is not part of the animation-activating dodge rate. The beginner skill activates a MISS/GUARD.

i dont think that is true. if the dodge was there, it would show in the extractions. it doesn't, however. jinsoku can trigger the animation as well, so what makes you think the animation youre seeing is willow's dodge?

you can think what you want, but Fiel's extractions show no free 25% dodge anywhere. you may think 25% isn't much, but its a free chance to dodge 1 out of every 4 attacks, its alot. it is also another dodge source that can trigger Willow's damage buff, and not having Willow's dodge portion makes maintaining damage stacks really hard and frustrating.

In game Battoujutsu Soul shows 0% critical added at all levels it also shows in the extractions like that. It works but it does not work as good as a thieves shadow shifter that is all.

i dont think that is true. if the dodge was there, it would show in the extractions. it doesn't, however. jinsoku can trigger the animation as well, so what makes you think the animation youre seeing is willow's dodge?

... I didn't even have Jinsoku before 4th job. That's how I know.

Quick question:
Does % Critical from Hitokiri Strike shows in the Stats?
'Cause I don't see it.

Quick question:
Does % Critical from Hitokiri Strike shows in the Stats?
'Cause I don't see it.

It's supposed to, but it doesn't seem like it is. We'll need someone with max level Hitokiri Strike and 55% or higher critical rate (before Hitokiri Strike's buff) to tell us whether or not it boosts them to 100% critical rate. If it doesn't, it's broken. In JMS, my critical rate gets boosted to 100% when I use Issen.

I have 55% Crit and Hitokiri at 20.
Still I don't feel like I've been doing crits as it should.

That's the whole point. That's the focus the developers wanted for Hayato. They wanted a warrior great at grinding and a mage great for bossing.

While the latter part is questionable, they did a perfect job with Hayato.

Well yeah, but just personally I think the difference is a little too big. That's probably more of KMS' problem as far as sticking with the "new classes make old ones basically obsolete" design purpose, but 1-2 min/lvl versus 15-20+ min/lvl is absurd. And besides, weren't (adventurer) mages originally great grinders, which is why they wanted to go for a bossing mage instead in designing Kanna? But adventurer mages still suck at grinding in comparison to like half of the other classes...

The reason why I pick on this is because I really can't agree with the idea of "grinding" classes versus "bossing" classes. It makes no sense to me, because making one class excel at grinding but weak at bossing is just letting them quickly zip to endgame and then ... suck. Acceptable class differences to me would be large mobbing vs. small mobbing vs. single target or fast & low damage vs. slow & high damage, and bosses could be changed to reflect these differences so that classes could be good at different parts of bossing. But grinding vs. bossing? No. Name one successful MMO which has a class whose main strength is centered on grinding. But my thoughts on how shortsighted Nexon's designers (in general) are probably better reserved for a different thread.

Don't get me wrong: I love Hayato. The class as a whole was designed a million times better than many (or dare I say, all) of the classes churned out by KMS.

Well yeah, but just personally I think the difference is a little too big. That's probably more of KMS' problem as far as sticking with the "new classes make old ones basically obsolete" design purpose, but 1-2 min/lvl versus 15-20+ min/lvl is absurd. And besides, weren't (adventurer) mages originally great grinders, which is why they wanted to go for a bossing mage instead in designing Kanna? But adventurer mages still suck at grinding in comparison to like half of the other classes...

The reason why I pick on this is because I really can't agree with the idea of "grinding" classes versus "bossing" classes. It makes no sense to me, because making one class excel at grinding but weak at bossing is just letting them quickly zip to endgame and then ... suck. Acceptable class differences to me would be large mobbing vs. small mobbing vs. single target or fast & low damage vs. slow & high damage, and bosses could be changed to reflect these differences so that classes could be good at different parts of bossing. But grinding vs. bossing? No. Name one successful MMO which has a class whose main strength is centered on grinding. But my thoughts on how shortsighted Nexon's designers (in general) are probably better reserved for a different thread.

Don't get me wrong: I love Hayato. The class as a whole was designed a million times better than many (or dare I say, all) of the classes churned out by KMS.

Pre-BB mages, with their spammable ultimates, were in fact "a class whose main strength is centered on grinding", who leveled much faster than the physical classes and also were never wanted at boss runs. BB took away the spammable ultimates, ostensibly in return for more "balanced" attacking skills, and now Explorer mages can't even grind particularly well. Especially when compared to newer magician classes who do have spammable full map skills (hello Reflection!)
But anyway, back then, there were people who chose to be mages for the grinding speed. Not everybody likes to boss. And back then, getting to 200 was a truly daunting task, and one didn't think about what one would do after reaching that goal.

Nowadays, however, when getting to 200 is a matter of weeks, regardless of class, I agree that a class specialized for grinding doesn't make much sense.

It's just a display error with Hitokiri. Every hit I did with Shinsoku always crit.

On the contrary, I think it should be the other way around. More classes like Hayato would make this game a lot more interesting. It makes grinding to certain levels actually fun. Normally, I HATE the grind from level 100 to 120, but today, going from 100 to 110 on my Hayato at Blue Dragon Turtles was a lot more fun than I've ever had with any other class in such a situation.

The issue is that the way classes are designed just isn't that good. It's very stiff and boring. It's all about being able to take on the next boss faster than the last class. I can't be bothered to level up any of my other characters beyond 120 anymore. They're just so f'ucking dull in comparison. Every time I try to pick up my Hero, Paladin, Dark Knight, Kaiser, Viper, Mercedes, Dual Blade, Phantom, and whatever else I have, I just find myself wanting to pound my head into my desk has hard as I possibly can within the first hour or two of grinding - sometimes within the first 5 minutes - because it's so dull.

With Hayato, grinding may still be a chore that takes AGES, but my god... It's a lot of fun. It sure as hell beats soloing the same boss a bazillion times and it most certainly beats doing the same thing with any other class by many magnitudes.

If they could make Hayato an example of how general mob specialization classes should be, MapleStory could become a lot more interesting.


Not to mention, with the new level 250 cap, that experience curve makes that "it's too easy to level" crap inert. pomegranate. You try grinding without LHC to 200, on normal mobs, and tell me it's still easy. Sure, it's easier than it was in 2005 ~ 2007, but it still takes a long ass time.


Also, it's not like Hayato levels significantly faster than everyone. In fact, he levels a lot slower than a ton of classes. The "general mob specialization" for Hayato just means he has more versatility and such at such a situation, versus a bossing situation. He has more ways to take down a regular enemy than he does in a boss situation. It doesn't mean he can one-hit KO every mob on the map at any given time, unlike some classes (Luminous). It's the kind of thing we need in MapleStory. It's what this game is lacking, really.

I personally find Hayato to be amazing at grinding, the fact that all his skills move you around the map makes cycling a map very easy and fun.

I haven't had much experience with bosses on my Hayato yet but I don't like it that much. Like at Azwan, having to constantly re-position yourself because your main attacking skill is forcing you forwards towards an enemy which is going to one-hit kill you is kinda annoying and makes it take longer than it should

I personally find Hayato to be amazing at grinding, the fact that all his skills move you around the map makes cycling a map very easy and fun.

I haven't had much experience with bosses on my Hayato yet but I don't like it that much. Like at Azwan, having to constantly re-position yourself because your main attacking skill is forcing you forwards towards an enemy which is going to one-hit kill you is kinda annoying and makes it take longer than it should

o.o Sanrenzan stops moving you if you get too close to a mob. It won't make you stand on top of a mob.