Tipping the scales.

1/1 skills don't damage Battle Ship. What evidence do you have to say that Buccaneer skills ignore defense?

Ask the creater of the DPS thread...

We've established that the DPS thread means absolutely nothing in terms of realistic damage output since it doesn't consider minimum damage and the party combinations are unrealistic despite what he says.

Bucs have the highest % to crit of any class (60%), but their crits give the lowest bonus (+60%). Sins and Bowmen are + 200% damage per crit added onto their total damage.

Sins and bowmen are +100% damage per crit added onto a skill.

Pierce being 850%, normal crit (without SE) is 950%.

2203%/s Cannon Ball
1600%/s Rapid Fire

1255%/s Demolition

Buccaneer would require an active damage range that's 1.275 times higher than the Corsair to outdamage it while it's not on Battle Ship, and a damage range 2.1 times higher to outdamage it while it's on Battle Ship, and while the Buccaneer is in Super Transform.

Is that conclusive enough?

We've established that the DPS thread means absolutely nothing in terms of realistic damage output since it doesn't consider minimum damage and the party combinations are unrealistic despite what he says.

You guys always say "we've". You can't really say that until you've had EVERYONE'S opinion.

Also, I wasn't referring to the DPS thread in the way you thought I was. I meant to ask the creator about the defense thing. He has a pomegranate load of formulas dealing with all kinda of things.

Here's a quick and dirty DPS comparison for you guys.

Corsair %DPS
Cannon: 380%*4*1.2/.69 = 2643%/s
Rapid: 160%*1.2/.12 = 1600%/s
Assume you use Cannon x seconds for every 90 seconds of Rapid.
Weighted average: [2643 - 93913/(x+90)]%/s

Buccaneer %DPS
Demolition: 400%*8/2.55 = 1254%/s
Barrage + DU: (230%*10+290%*2)/3.24 = 889%/s
Assume you use Demolition and Barrage + DU equally over time.
Weighted average: 1072%/s
Now, adjust for differences in damage range. Since this is a quick and dirty approximation, I'll take 4.8/3.6 (the main stat multipliers) and 200/220 (to account for the absence of bullet ATK) and multiply them by Buccaneer damage. This simplifies to a 40/33 modifier.
Final weighted average: 1299%/s

Now we set them equal.

1299 = 2643 - 93913/(x+90)
93913 = 1344(x+90)
69.87 = x+90
-20.12 = x

The Corsair would have to stay on the battleship for at least -20.12 seconds to match the Buccaneer over time.

I'm not even trying to sound sarcastic.

This is seriously just going to end up in a roundabout argument that nobody wants to read because it's all been stated before.
I'm sure you guys don't want to have to repeat yourselves either.
I don't care about the likelihood if Battleship being used to its full potential or anything.


So I'll ask again;


Even though these are under impossible circumstances, could my question be answered if:
For 10 straight minutes, the Corsair would be boarded on the Battleship without it breaking.
For 10 straight minutes, the Buccaneer would be Super Transformed without it ending.
At Horntail. Or if you want a single target, Anego.
(Pretend the Buccaneer won't get owned by her slap)

Once again, ignore that this is impossible. I just want to know what sort of equips the Buccaneer's Demolition would need to stand against a Corsair's Cannon.
Calculations with and without the Corsair having Speed Infusion would be nice too. =x


http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/832508/0/#1.4
Just use the equips used in this thread.

Equips for 161 Captain:
• 15 str/20 dex Zhelm
• 91 atk Concerto (lvl 100 gun)
• 25 dex/7 str Red Duke (lvl 100 overall)
• 22 dex/22 str HT necklace
• 12 atk BWGs
• 2 atk/10 dex PAC
• 7 dex/3 str Blue Effulgent (lvl 80 pirate shoe)
• 10 sets of Eternal Bullets (lvl 110 bullets)
• (84 dex bonus/47 str bonus from equips)
• Total attack: 125 (warrior elixer), 213 (onyx apple)


Edit: Okay so it seems some progress is being made. Thank you.

137 Attack with Warrior Elixer, 225 with Onyx Apple
(91 Gun + 12 Glove + 2 Cape + 20 Bullet + 12/100 Elixer/Apple)
Warrior Elixer: 2669~4827
Onyx Apple: 4384~7928

Thus, during your scenario, the Buccaneer's Range would have to be

Warrior Elixer: 5605~10137
Onyx Apple: 9206~16649

Happy?
(P.S. Stats optimized for MW 20)

If you guys don't know enough about HT, please don't use it in your arguments as it just makes it really weak for someone who has been at HT.

- Preheads afk a lot. Just did a run and HT only attacked once during 2nd prehead. You can reset your ship with the rock before main fight anyway
- You don't constantly take the 7.8k hit
- A lot of hits I take are 1/1 or mana burs [1 hp attacks]
- 1/1s are very noticeable
- I get stomped a lot but that's because i'm on legs side. Being on tail side, you wont' get stomped as much
- During tail, a lot of the damage taken will be from the rock, which does a little under 2k

- During tails/legs, you get hit the most

- Once wings are down, the highest damage you take is 5~5.5k from magic
- When only 3 heads + left arm is left, you take damage sometimes. When 1 head goes down, you take damage a lot less, even moreso when the other head goes down

- HT super defs a lot. You can purposely break your ship if it's almost broken or get off your ship to save HP, thus cutting down time. Transformation is screwed at this point as they are just wasting time. They can work around this though by attacking another part of HT

- Last arm, your ship probably has a <0.1% chance of breaking

For zakum, it afks too. You can dodge fire pillars and 1/1 pretty easily as they have long and noticeable animations. Even the lightning + seal attack

137 Attack with Warrior Elixer, 225 with Onyx Apple
(91 Gun + 12 Glove + 2 Cape + 20 Bullet + 12/100 Elixer/Apple)
Warrior Elixer: 2669~4827
Onyx Apple: 4384~7928

Thus, during your scenario, the Buccaneer's Range would have to be

Warrior Elixer: 4697~8496
Onyx Apple: 7716~13953

Happy?
(P.S. Stats optimized for MW 20)

Yes, thanks a lot.
I really appreciate it.

Edit: Wow I just realized that even though the equips for the Corsair were pretty low according to GMS's standards, the Buccaneer would need beyond godly equips to even come close.

Very helpful indeed.

If you guys don't know enough about HT, please don't use it in your arguments as it just makes it really weak for someone who has been at HT.

- Preheads afk a lot. Just did a run and HT only attacked once during 2nd prehead. You can reset your ship with the rock before main fight anyway
- You don't constantly take the 7.8k hit
- A lot of hits I take are 1/1 or mana burs [1 hp attacks]
- 1/1s are very noticeable
- I get stomped a lot but that's because i'm on legs side. Being on tail side, you wont' get stomped as much
- During tail, a lot of the damage taken will be from the rock, which does a little under 2k

- During tails/legs, you get hit the most

- Once wings are down, the highest damage you take is 5~5.5k from magic
- When only 3 heads + left arm is left, you take damage sometimes. When 1 head goes down, you take damage a lot less, even moreso when the other head goes down

- HT super defs a lot. You can purposely break your ship if it's almost broken or get off your ship to save HP, thus cutting down time. Transformation is screwed at this point as they are just wasting time. They can work around this though by attacking another part of HT

- Last arm, your ship probably has a <0.1% chance of breaking

For zakum, it afks too. You can dodge fire pillars and 1/1 pretty easily as they have long and noticeable animations. Even the lightning + seal attack

Best post for people saying it breaks in 10 seconds. EVER.

Thank you so much.

My bad. I was coming back to check what the stats were that I had used here, and I realized I didn't consider Advanced Homing into the damage ratio for Cannon. So instead of being 1.76 times the damage range, a Buccaneer requires 2.1 times the range to match the DPS of a Corsair.

Warrior Elixer: 4697~8496
Onyx Apple: 7716~13953

Warrior Elixer: 5605~10137
Onyx Apple: 9206~16649

1.27 times is correct for Demolition vs Rapid Fire though.

Anyways. A particular thread on lolbasil made me lolol because it stated that NLs would be useless due to Corsairs in HT and Z Runs etc. Bossing in General. Some guy said that Corsairs do "ok damage" on their ships and when it breaks, it's like a NL or a BM using a level 30 weapon.

Ask the creater of the DPS thread...

Please don't bring up the DPS thread....oh my god. I wish that had never existed.

His calculations were never realistic to begin with. Every post in that thread I made told him to add minimum damage in. I even showed him how to do it. Nope, ignored. I can't believe the thread got stickied. Like his ego needed any more boosting. He started believing his own bullshit. Those numbers were a major contributing force in making everyone believe Buccaneers were overpowered, when in reality, Buccaneers at bosses are nothing more than slightly more powerful Shadowers with a different set of support skills.

The other assumptions that Buccaneers would be overpowered were legitimate, and mostly based on videos. Bucs hit big numbers, and SE helps their damage while training massively. That, I can understand. But everyone needs to get it through their heads - Buccaneers are not a DPS class at bosses. Corsairs are.

The other assumptions that Buccaneers would be overpowered were legitimate, and mostly based on videos. Bucs hit big numbers, and SE helps their damage while training massively. That, I can understand. But everyone needs to get it through their heads - Buccaneers are not a DPS class at bosses. Corsairs are.

Shhhhhhhh dont spread that around!!

Shhhhhhhh dont spread that around!!

Don't worry about it. They'll give up before they even make it to 70-80.

If you guys don't know enough about HT, please don't use it in your arguments as it just makes it really weak for someone who has been at HT.

- Preheads afk a lot. Just did a run and HT only attacked once during 2nd prehead. You can reset your ship with the rock before main fight anyway
- You don't constantly take the 7.8k hit
- A lot of hits I take are 1/1 or mana burs [1 hp attacks]
- 1/1s are very noticeable
- I get stomped a lot but that's because i'm on legs side. Being on tail side, you wont' get stomped as much
- During tail, a lot of the damage taken will be from the rock, which does a little under 2k

- During tails/legs, you get hit the most

- Once wings are down, the highest damage you take is 5~5.5k from magic
- When only 3 heads + left arm is left, you take damage sometimes. When 1 head goes down, you take damage a lot less, even moreso when the other head goes down

- HT super defs a lot. You can purposely break your ship if it's almost broken or get off your ship to save HP, thus cutting down time. Transformation is screwed at this point as they are just wasting time. They can work around this though by attacking another part of HT

- Last arm, your ship probably has a <0.1% chance of breaking

For zakum, it afks too. You can dodge fire pillars and 1/1 pretty easily as they have long and noticeable animations. Even the lightning + seal attack

excellent post. personally, i cannot wait to take my ship into battle with HT as i have only seen buccs so far. (time leap mules FTW!-nonstop echo >.<) also personal skill DOES come into play here....what's that you say? maple takes no skill?! i say to you-welcome to the pirate class! the dawn of actual skill usage! when i first started i couldn't keep my ship alive for more than a few minutes. i am now able to keep my ship going for long stretches of time by learning how to time on board and off. newties are auto-aggro and present the kind of rope-climbing BS that is present at HT. learning to use the rocks in the cave will be the best skill a corsair can learn. and as a note-so far i haven't noticed 1/1 affecting my ship, but i may have missed it since i'm still learning. my hubby is a 13x bucc but i havent had a chance to watch him yet as i'm too focused on my own HP bar and ship icon.

i've asked his sister to help us make a video so we can watch it carefully, or if anyone wants to help us in Windia i'd be willing to test dmg using all possible scenarios with a nice clean cut comparison of equal level and geared pirates.

Please don't bring up the DPS thread....oh my god. I wish that had never existed.

His calculations were never realistic to begin with. Every post in that thread I made told him to add minimum damage in. I even showed him how to do it. Nope, ignored. I can't believe the thread got stickied. Like his ego needed any more boosting. He started believing his own bullpomegranate. Those numbers were a major contributing force in making everyone believe Buccaneers were overpowered, when in reality, Buccaneers at bosses are nothing more than slightly more powerful Shadowers with a different set of support skills.

...I think I love you. I'm amazed how many people just accept his crap and massive ego that he spews all over this forum. He has negative opinions on everything, and he thinks he's always right...with all those :') frickin' faces :') all the time like he's some smug papaya. Sweet hosanna. I wish more people would call him out on his stupidity.

THANK YOU.

Oh, and... :')

also personal skill DOES come into play here....what's that you say? maple takes no skill?! i say to you-welcome to the pirate class! the dawn of actual skill usage!

Hey! Shadowers too ya know!

But in seriousness. I agree. That why I'm going to make a Corsair along with my Shadower. I already have a decent sense of timing thanks to BStep.

excellent post. personally, i cannot wait to take my ship into battle with HT as i have only seen buccs so far. (time leap mules FTW!-nonstop echo >.<) also personal skill DOES come into play here....what's that you say? maple takes no skill?! i say to you-welcome to the pirate class! the dawn of actual skill usage! when i first started i couldn't keep my ship alive for more than a few minutes. i am now able to keep my ship going for long stretches of time by learning how to time on board and off. newties are auto-aggro and present the kind of rope-climbing BS that is present at HT. learning to use the rocks in the cave will be the best skill a corsair can learn. and as a note-so far i haven't noticed 1/1 affecting my ship, but i may have missed it since i'm still learning. my hubby is a 13x bucc but i havent had a chance to watch him yet as i'm too focused on my own HP bar and ship icon.

i've asked his sister to help us make a video so we can watch it carefully, or if anyone wants to help us in Windia i'd be willing to test dmg using all possible scenarios with a nice clean cut comparison of equal level and geared pirates.

Idk how manon/griffey's 1/1 will work, probably not the same, but zakum should be very safe to check. I think our alliance is doing an early zak run tonight so i'll bring my corsair to check and probably SS it.

Works out well for me too since my ship only has 8k hp still so the 1/1 will be very noticeable if it's there.

I forgot to note: During legs/tail, the only damage you should take is rocks, 7.8k magic, mana burns, and 1/1. No point in considering stomp because you stop attacking when it stomps as 1 stomp = death [9~10k damage]

Approximate gusses on how long it will take me to take 60k damage cumulative, ignoring 1/1 [on tail side]

All parts of HT alive, attacking tail - 30~60~90 seconds
Tail down, attacking legs - 30~60~90 seconds
Legs down, attacking wings - 30~60~90 seconds
Wings down, attacking right arm - 45~120 seconds
Right arm down, attacking right head - 45~120 seconds
Right head down, attacking left head - 60~120~150 seconds
Left head down, attacking middle head - 60~120~150 seconds
Middle head down, attacking left arm - Chance of breaking <0.1%

When a lot of HT is still left, you pretty much take damage every couple of seconds but as I said, it's not always the magic hit. After a head or two is down, you can actually go into the "non-breathing" position for your character.

Someone else who goes to HT can try to give guesses on this as i'm only pulling it from memory. I'll get better numbers hopefully today/this weekend