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JoeTang · 2013-02-04, 06:58 PM

Arrg Wrote:I didn't really think Typhoon would be good enough dps to keep using instead of just using it for the damage boost and maintaining your stacks.

Typhoon does 390% x 6 hits with the Bonus Attack Hyper, at 540ms when chained. Annihilate does up to 250% x 7 at 630ms when chained. Thunderclap is 280% x 6 hits with the Bonus Attack Hyper at 810ms when chained.

Typhoon is significantly stronger than any other attack they get. It would need to give like +80% damage to warrant waiting for max stacks to spam.

Arrg · 2013-02-05, 01:21 PM

Okay well with thunderclap, annihilate, and typhoon at 1; 1v1 using annihilate/thunderclap is still less viable?

JoeTang · 2013-02-05, 05:14 PM

Arrg Wrote:Okay well with thunderclap, annihilate, and typhoon at 1; 1v1 using annihilate/thunderclap is still less viable?

Use Shark Kick + Thunderclap until 3 Charges, then replace Thunderclap with Annihilate (5 hit Annihilate). Probably simpler to just wait til max charge, not sure if its better DPS or not, but it should be marginal. Looks like I was wrong about Annihilate and Shark Kick. Level 1 with 7 hits is slightly better than Shark Kick.

I can see Annihilate being useful if you're doing some bosses before 150, I guess. Thunderclap can replace Shark Kick in this combo at 15. Build should have (in no particular order) Thunderclap, Expert, Static Charge, Typhoon, and Thunder God near maxed if not maxed by 150 though, leaving very minimal points for 1 pointers/SI to a decent useable level.

Takebacker · 2013-02-06, 08:31 PM

I was playing around a little bit with numbers related to cannoneer hypers and i wanted to ask if something was true. With buckshot being 1.2x damage, is there any %/s difference between hitting 6 times with barrage and hitting 15 times at 40% damage? I get 2808% per barrage both ways not counting crits and including the 1.2x hyper skill.

It would make buckshot only have an effect on mobbing vs being completely necessary to cast for the most %/s and make the +1 hit count hyper more viable to spend the point on.

JoeTang · 2013-02-06, 08:34 PM

Takebacker Wrote:I was playing around a little bit with numbers related to cannoneer hypers and i wanted to ask if something was true. With buckshot being 1.2x damage, is there any %/s difference between hitting 6 times with barrage and hitting 15 times at 40% damage? I get 2808% per barrage both ways not counting crits and including the 1.2x hyper skill.

It would make buckshot only have an effect on mobbing vs being completely necessary to cast for the most %/s and make the +1 hit count hyper more viable to spend the point on.

The only difference should be the amount of damage cap you can hit. Use the extra Hyper for something useful instead.

Takebacker · 2013-02-06, 08:45 PM

JoeTang Wrote:The only difference should be the amount of damage cap you can hit. Use the extra Hyper for something useful instead.

In which case you get the advantage of not spending time to cast buckshot i guess. But it's that or +15% crit (and i can probably hit 100% crit on barrage without it) or 10 targets on bazooka. Gives you leverage on switching your skills to benefit the boss you'll be at which is pretty cool.

JoeTang · 2013-02-20, 06:17 AM

I've updated the OP with another set of Thunder Breaker tables. [MENTION=5338]LiquidSwing[/MENTION]

The new table is for using Typhoon purely as a buff instead of a damage dealer. This also uses Annihilate's Hyper Skills instead of Gale's. This leads to significant damage increase on 40%+ Defense monsters. Keep in mind, there can be party members who lower the enemy's defense, i.e. Threaten, Devil Cry, Legendary Spear, etc., and that you lose a ton of versatility taking Annihilate Hyper Skills over Gale Hyper Skills in this method, noted by the significantly lower %/s for multiple targets; however, if your gear and other sources (i.e. Potential, Luminous Link, that stuff that isn't already included) provides ~50%+ Ignore, the difference for 1v1 goes back towards Thunderclap Typhoon spam, assuming the old defense ignore formula.

My current speculation on this is that gear provides diminished returns, but every other source is still additive, but I could be wrong. There does not appear to be significant documentation on this, and I am not going to test it myself.

I also fixed a bug where Hyper Ascend + Thunder was calculating with Sharp Eyes wrong, and I fine-tuned the adding of the correct delay for Thunderclap when switching to a non-chained skill (i.e. a buff or God of the Sea). As far as I know, none of the other tables changed, but if you notice something different or off, let me know and I'll take another look at it.

Takebacker · 2013-04-03, 06:00 PM

FYI: English readout of buckshot still says -40% damage, but i tested it to still be reduced to 40% damage like we observed.

Also question. Is it ever beneficial to use rolling rainbow for 1v1? It seems barrage out damages it, but i'm not entirely sure.

JoeTang · 2013-04-03, 06:15 PM

Takebacker Wrote:FYI: English readout of buckshot still says -40% damage, but i tested it to still be reduced to 40% damage like we observed.

Also question. Is it ever beneficial to use rolling rainbow for 1v1? It seems barrage out damages it, but i'm not entirely sure.

It should always be beneficial if it really is 240ms. The difference is extremely marginal, and most notable in the hits/s and max/s. Unless it has some obscene amount of startup/end, which I haven't accounted for.

Takebacker · 2013-04-03, 06:30 PM

JoeTang Wrote:It should always be beneficial if it really is 240ms. The difference is extremely marginal, and most notable in the hits/s and max/s. Unless it has some obscene amount of startup/end, which I haven't accounted for.

I've been able to cast it with no noticeable delay on either end. That's all good news i guess. Buckshot has the lowest delay of all my buffs thank god.

JoeTang · 2013-04-05, 02:34 PM

Cannon Shooter:

Spoiler

Sharp Eyes

Hyper

Angelic Burster:

Trinity & Primal Roar

Soul Seeker

Hyper

The OP and 2nd post should be updated now.

These are the Tempest tables for Cannon Shooter and Angelic Buster. I noted I accidentally used the Hyper Skill patch values for most of Cannon Shooter's skills; Angelic Buster only had this happen with something's (I think it was Finale Ribbon and Celestial Roar?) recharge rate, and the attack speed of Trinity, which I'm not 100% sure on if I have the correct chain delay. Let me know if there's anything that looks strange.

Also found that last patch was using 90% for Angelic Buster's ToC instead of 100%. It correctly uses 100% above, and 60% in the 2nd post.

JoeTang · 2013-05-17, 03:25 AM

Angelic Burster:

Trinity & Primal Roar

Soul Seeker

Hyper

Buff to all skills from Trinity's passive, providing Total Damage and Defense Ignore for everything, while losing a small bit of defense ignore for itself due to the formula making two 15%s less effective than one 30%, unless they're counted as six individual 5%s which would be dumb.

SOUL SEEKERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

ChronosXIII · 2013-05-17, 11:12 PM

Holy crap, the buffs boosted Soul Seeker THAT much?

MountLag · 2013-05-18, 01:27 AM

95% regeneration with the hyper factored in is pretty ridiculous. You'll pretty much get the max number of regenerations on the orbs every time.

JoeTang · 2013-05-23, 05:20 AM

Pre-buff Angelic Buster

Angelic Burster:

Trinity & Primal Roar

Soul Seeker

Hyper

Blunderr · 2013-05-23, 06:04 AM

Hey. I just noticed that the Thunder Breaker tables on the first page are about 2000% less than what's on the Summarized %/s thread. Could you look into it if you have the time? Thanks a bunch!

JoeTang · 2013-05-23, 06:42 AM

Blunderr Wrote:Hey. I just noticed that the Thunder Breaker tables on the first page are about 2000% less than what's on the Summarized %/s thread. Could you look into it if you have the time? Thanks a bunch!

Thank you, looks like I hadn't updated the value in that table for some older changes made here. These threads should always be more accurate and up to date than the summary thread.

Blunderr · 2013-05-23, 12:32 PM

JoeTang Wrote:Thank you, looks like I hadn't updated the value in that table for some older changes made here. These threads should always be more accurate and up to date than the summary thread.

Thanks! I'm a little confused about something though; from lurking through this thread I've been getting the idea that Typhoon+Thunderclap is supposed to be better than Annihilate+Thunderclap. The previous entry in the Summarized %/s thread reflected this too, but the new tables indicate that Annihilate is just slightly better. So if you don't mind me asking, what happened there? Did I miss a skill change or something? Again, thanks for all your help!

JoeTang · 2013-05-23, 06:36 PM

Blunderr Wrote:Thanks! I'm a little confused about something though; from lurking through this thread I've been getting the idea that Typhoon+Thunderclap is supposed to be better than Annihilate+Thunderclap. The previous entry in the Summarized %/s thread reflected this too, but the new tables indicate that Annihilate is just slightly better. So if you don't mind me asking, what happened there? Did I miss a skill change or something? Again, thanks for all your help!

Okay, I found the problem. I commented out the hyper skills to test something earlier and forgot to re-add them. It's fixed now.

Manu · 2013-06-08, 07:00 PM

For a GMS buccaneer what's the best dps on 1v1 assuming I don't do cap damage? Spam octopunch alone or use Power Unity when available, I know it'd be best if I capped but since I don't, is it slower because of the skill speed?

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