Israel invades the gaza strip.

I don't understand.

I said we should interfere, and Curtiss and Imagineall downvoted my post. Then I said let them go at it, and Curtiss and Imagineall still downvoted my post

You guys are retarded rofl.

So your answers are;

"Behave or we'll kill you" or "Well let them kill eachother"

Thus you think both are befitting of death. That's why you were downvoted.

I was being sarcastic in my first post. Either we solve the fighting ourselves, or we let them sort it out themselves. Either way doesn't matter to me. Letting them figure it out themselves is much more cost effective to the united states though.

I thought you realized my sarcasm in the very 1st post I made, because you seemed sarcastic right back, but now I'm not sure.

Honestly I think anyone who takes a side in this situation is an idiot.

I mean, I have a personal tie to the subject in some way yet I won't take sides because it's silly. They're both fucking stupid now.

I was being sarcastic in my first post. Either we solve the fighting ourselves, or we let them sort it out themselves. Either way doesn't matter to me. Letting them figure it out themselves is much more cost effective to the united states though.

I thought you realized my sarcasm in the very 1st post I made, because you seemed sarcastic right back, but now I'm not sure.

You asked why they downvoted you, I explained why. That's all that response was.

I was being sarcastic in my first post. Either we solve the fighting ourselves, or we let them sort it out themselves. Either way doesn't matter to me. Letting them figure it out themselves is much more cost effective to the united states though.

I thought you realized my sarcasm in the very 1st post I made, because you seemed sarcastic right back, but now I'm not sure.

Did you ever take into consideration that both of your answers were just stupid? Your first offer essentially said we should just go over there and kill them. Your second answer was more direct in saying you think we should just let them kill each other. If your first response is the only one that was sarcastic then you're even more of a douche than I thought.

I'm going to flip flop a little bit here on what I said before, but realize I'm merely asking a question (not just to you, but everyone else as well). What makes an American life worth more than an Israeli or a Palestinian life? If we have the capacity and the means to aid in the situation are we not under a moral obligation to intercede? Does the buck stop at only providing aid to our own citizens? As much as I am opposed to the idea of us policing every little issue in the world, are we also just expected to sit idle while thousands upon thousands of innocents are killed?

Food for thought.

This is why we have the United Nations, a body that represents the world in the interest of human life and equality. While that's not to say they've been notably influential in conflicts on this scale in recent decades, it's that fundamental form of a global alliance that should be used to address issues like these, not any one country.

yes because like i said, the arabs would've probably been ok with it if the jews were actual jews that were born and lived there. but they werent... majority came from scattered places.

Dude wtp. This and your #prayforIsrael comment paint you as the biggest douchebag in this thread and, oh hey, are examples of WHY THIS REGIONAL TENSION EXISTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Honestly I think anyone who takes a side in this situation is an idiot.

I mean, I have a personal tie to the subject in some way yet I won't take sides because it's silly. They're both fucking stupid now.

This, I've never been able to "pick a side" on this issue. Both are complicated and ultimately there are peaceful solutions of compromise and working together as one nation that could be done but some people this world are so stuck in the past they can't move forward with changing geopolitical landscapes.

you sir, are retarded.



thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth. hamas wouldnt be doing what he is doing to the shithole we call israel if it had never existed in the first place.

bottom-line is : anyone who is pro-israel is retarded and need to start accessing the situation and the root cause better.

Not sure if you're so indoctrinated to your religion/culture that you think the sun shines out of the ass of every Muslim country (which very well might be the case since you take slight to every little thing posted about a Muslim fanatic, yeah I remember that thread where you complained that everyone abused the Muslim peoples when papers can't even draw a fucking picture of Allah without massive riots and suicide bombings), or if you're just really really ignorant.

Insulting DeanNim for his intolerant opinion is an example of just how intolerant we all are.

Insulting DeanNim for his intolerant opinion is an example of just how intolerant we all are.

I see. So the Arab Muslims have a right to 22 states extending from the Atlantic (North Africa) to the Pacific (Malaysia), and absolutely must have one more. But the Jews do not have a right to self-rule in even the tiny strip of land their forefathers have lived in for 4000 years. Yes, that makes perfect sense.

Yeah, well, the problem is they shouldn't have kicked the Arabs out of Israel 60 years ago just to claim their own country. Arabs that have been living there for like, what, 2000 years? I mean as far as I can tell Great Britain has offered several spots in like, what, South America, but obviously the Jews want to go back to their "homeland." Not I can blame them, but they shouldn't kick the Arabs out to do that.

How about this: Hey we'll restore the 1967 boundaries if you give us the identities of whoever's in Hamas, alright? Kekekekekek.

Yeah, well, the problem is they shouldn't have kicked the Arabs out of Israel 60 years ago just to claim their own country. Arabs that have been living there for like, what, 2000 years? I mean as far as I can tell Great Britain has offered several spots in like, what, South America, but obviously the Jews want to go back to their "homeland." Not I can blame them, but they shouldn't kick the Arabs out to do that.

How about this: Hey we'll restore the 1967 boundaries if you give us the identities of whoever's in Hamas, alright? Kekekekekek.

They didn't kick anyone.
Like I said a few posts ago, the Arabs who chose to stay in 1948 were not massacred, deported, robbed, subjugated, or otherwise abused. They were given full citizenship and equal rights. Still have those rights, them and their descendants. They make up about 20% of Israel's population.
The ones that ran away, did it on their own initiative.

They didn't kick anyone.
Like I said a few posts ago, the Arabs who chose to stay in 1948 were not massacred, deported, robbed, subjugated, or otherwise abused. They were given full citizenship and equal rights. Still have those rights, them and their descendants. They make up about 20% of Israel's population.
The ones that ran away, did it on their own initiative.

Unfortunately, sources are way too damm conflicting on this. Jews say the Arabs ran away (or...stayed) and the Arabs say they got kicked out. Heck, probably both happened. The ones that did run away, though, expected to come back. They didn't. So for all intents and purposes, they got kicked out.

Unfortunately, sources are way too damm conflicting on this. Jews say the Arabs ran away (or...stayed) and the Arabs say they got kicked out. Heck, probably both happened. The ones that did run away, though, expected to come back. They didn't. So for all intents and purposes, they got kicked out.

Yes, but the thing is, this sentence right here is equally contextual to the Jews when they were forced from Israel, isn't it? Unless I'm remembering my history wrong, in which case just disregard me altogether.

Unfortunately, sources are way too damm conflicting on this. Jews say the Arabs ran away (or...stayed) and the Arabs say they got kicked out. Heck, probably both happened. The ones that did run away, though, expected to come back. They didn't. So for all intents and purposes, they got kicked out.

1) Conflicting sources or not, it is an undisputed fact that there are about 1.5 million Arab citizens in Israel now. Israel does not welcome immigration by non-Jews, therefore these are not recent arrivals. Unless you are prepared to argue these people are Jews in disguise, the inescapable conclusion is that these are the Arabs who didn't leave in 1948, and their descendants. It's quite obvious they weren't kicked out.

2) "The ones that did run away, though, expected to come back. They didn't. So for all intents and purposes, they got kicked out. "
What? Either they thought the Jews would kill them if they stayed, in which case they knew they wouldn't be back unless the Jews were driven off; or they thought the Jews would be nice and let them return, in which case why did they feel the need to run away in the first place?
It might be that in their own minds they had no choice but to run, but that doesn't make it so "for all intents and purposes".

Yes, but the thing is, this sentence right here is equally contextual to the Jews when they were forced from Israel, isn't it? Unless I'm remembering my history wrong, in which case just disregard me altogether.

Yes, which part of the reason as to why this mess is a cluter&*(%#&#@*(% in the first place.

1) Conflicting sources or not, it is an undisputed fact that there are about 1.5 million Arab citizens in Israel now. Israel does not welcome immigration by non-Jews, therefore these are not recent arrivals. Unless you are prepared to argue these people are Jews in disguise, the inescapable conclusion is that these are the Arabs who didn't leave in 1948, and their descendants. It's quite obvious they weren't kicked out.

2) "The ones that did run away, though, expected to come back. They didn't. So for all intents and purposes, they got kicked out. "
What? Either they thought the Jews would kill them if they stayed, in which case they knew they wouldn't be back unless the Jews were driven off; or they thought the Jews would be nice and let them return, in which case why did they feel the need to run away in the first place?
It might be that in their own minds they had no choice but to run, but that doesn't make it so "for all intents and purposes".

1) I never said I disagreed with that fact. I agree that there is a small minority (~10-20%) stayed. I don't know why you're contesting that with me. I'm arguing about the majority, which is the part that's causing the huge ruckus right now.

2) I would totally run away too if there were tanks and military and soldiers. Israel came with the military intention to take over Israel. If you don't see as that as "kicking out," then I don't know what is.

And they expected to return because of either

a) Arabs would take back Israel.
b) United Nations rights.
c) USA USA USA USA USA USA

All failed miserably. So you can see why Hamas exists, since quite frankly some of them see no other choice (note: I am not endorsing Hamas in any shape or form. They could suck my cock too).

There has been countless U.N. resolutions condemning Israel, more than North Korea, Syria, other countries in the Middle East, and etc. combined. Israel is like nope.avi.

Oh, and I would to dispute the fact that Arab citizens in Israel have equal rights. Because you know goddamm well that's not the truth.

I'm not damm against Israel. I realize the crap they had to go through. I sympathize with "Guys, crap, we need to band together in a country after pineappleing Hitler." That wasn't the way to do it, though.

I agree damm well with the average normal Palestinian and the average normal Israelian. They. Just. Want. The. Goddamm. Violence. To. Stop. There are just stupid extremists on both sides which made the mess right now. Pineapple them. You guys dont't want damm peace. 99% of all murders of outspoken peace-loving advocates were done by people from the same "side."

The Jews did not "come with the military intention of taking over Israel".

Jews had been trickling into this area since the 19th century. They built towns and agricultural communities and settled in to live. (Tel Aviv, for example, was established in 1909. The first Kibbutz, Dgania, was established in 1910). After the Turks lost WWI, the Jews started lobbying with the British for independence. The Arabs lobbied for Jews to not be allowed into Palestine. The British initially accepted the Jewish viewpoint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration), but later agreed with the Arabs, and forbade Jews to come here. Before, during, and after WWII, Jews were not allowed to immigrate to Palestine, but continued coming illegally. Once the British went anti-Zionist, the Jews set up underground/terrorist organizations to oust them. These organizations attacked the British military, not the Arabs.

In 1948 there were about 650,000 Jews and a million Arabs in Palestine. When the British finally left, without leaving the figurative keys to either side, the Jews declared their independence, and the Arabs - including both the local ones and the surrounding countries - launched an offensive against the Jewish towns and other communities. As stated before, they lost.
The Jews did not have tanks and planes, as they had been arming themselves as underground/resistance/guerrilla do. They did not come from outside to take over by force, they were protecting their towns and kibbutzim and wherever they were already living.

As for why Hamas exists: it exists because people were forced to live in refugee camps for decades. If the Arabs had taken their brothers in, back in 1948, or a few years later, the conflict might have continued, but this level of desperation and hatred would never have evolved. If they had been willing to accept any kind of peaceful compromise, instead of insisting on all the Jews "going back to Europe", everyone would have been happier. But no, it had to be all or nothing. And 60 years of nothing does take its toll on people's sanity. That's why Hamas exists and why the population of Gaza voted Hamas into power.

Regardless of all of this, regardless of who is right or wrong, Israel is the US's only real ally in that entire region. Not backing them up when they need it sends a bad message; it reinforces the stereotype that we are not to be trusted, which allies and enemies alike will be using against us later on.

The Jews did not "come with the military intention of taking over Israel".

Jews had been trickling into this area since the 19th century. They built towns and agricultural communities and settled in to live. (Tel Aviv, for example, was established in 1909. The first Kibbutz, Dgania, was established in 1910). After the Turks lost WWI, the Jews started lobbying with the British for independence. The Arabs lobbied for Jews to not be allowed into Palestine. The British initially accepted the Jewish viewpoint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration), but later agreed with the Arabs, and forbade Jews to come here. Before, during, and after WWII, Jews were not allowed to immigrate to Palestine, but continued coming illegally. Once the British went anti-Zionist, the Jews set up underground/terrorist organizations to oust them. These organizations attacked the British military, not the Arabs.

In 1948 there were about 650,000 Jews and a million Arabs in Palestine. When the British finally left, without leaving the figurative keys to either side, the Jews declared their independence, and the Arabs - including both the local ones and the surrounding countries - launched an offensive against the Jewish towns and other communities. As stated before, they lost.
The Jews did not have tanks and planes, as they had been arming themselves as underground/resistance/guerrilla do. They did not come from outside to take over by force, they were protecting their towns and kibbutzim and wherever they were already living.

As for why Hamas exists: it exists because people were forced to live in refugee camps for decades. If the Arabs had taken their brothers in, back in 1948, or a few years later, the conflict might have continued, but this level of desperation and hatred would never have evolved. If they had been willing to accept any kind of peaceful compromise, instead of insisting on all the Jews "going back to Europe", everyone would have been happier. But no, it had to be all or nothing. And 60 years of nothing does take its toll on people's sanity. That's why Hamas exists and why the population of Gaza voted Hamas into power.

Seems like both of us are underestimating the side we're arguing against.

The Jews definitely had tanks and planes. They were definitely not guerillas. If you were told they didn't, I'm sorry, you've been misinformed.

I conveniently (curse you memory!) "forgot" the Arabs launched the initiave. You're right. I'll admit I was wrong in that aspect. After the initial offense though, the Jewish military did not just defend their homes though. They went, way, way, past the U.N. paritition line of 1947. Which is what my memory has been arguing for.

Seems like both of us are underestimating the side we're arguing against.

The Jews definitely had tanks and planes. They were definitely not guerillas. If you were told they didn't, I'm sorry, you've been misinformed.

I conveniently (curse you memory!) "forgot" the Arabs launched the initiave. You're right. I'll admit I was wrong in that aspect. After the initial offense though, the Jewish military did not just defend their homes though. They went, way, way, past the U.N. paritition line of 1947. Which is what my memory has been arguing for.

The Jewish armed organizations were illegal terrorists to the British, right up until the day they left. The Brits would raid their weapon hidey-holes and imprison their members regularly. Tanks and planes are not the sort of thing one can hide.
After the British left, the different movements were unified into the IDF, but not without difficulty. (google "Altalena")

As for "way, way past" - first of all, the whole country is tiny. There is no "way, way". But yes, the Jews did try for wider, more defensible borders (the UN partition would have been well for friendly neighbors, but utterly untenable if they insisted on being enemies).

Not sure if you're so indoctrinated to your religion/culture that you think the sun shines out of the ass of every Muslim country (which very well might be the case since you take slight to every little thing posted about a Muslim fanatic, yeah I remember that thread where you complained that everyone abused the Muslim peoples when papers can't even draw a pineappleing picture of Allah without massive riots and suicide bombings), or if you're just really really ignorant.

if you think muslims are not constantly made fun of i think youre the really really really really ignorant one here. and hey you're showing a good example here.

Dude wtp. This and your #prayforIsrael comment paint you as the biggest douchebag in this thread and, oh hey, are examples of WHY THIS REGIONAL TENSION EXISTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

im sorry but everyone have opinions on things and i for one feel sorry for the palestinians for having their home stolen by jews who took the chance when they could.