[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills

Which makes it way weaker because the damage isreduced due to the monster def 4 times as compared to PI which only gets reduced once.

No, defense reduction is %-based now.
And it's pretty obvious (yet stupid) why this argument took place. Look at how the two sides (or at least SwordStaker's side) interpret the rabbit-tortoise story. They think miracles happen. In MapleStory. I have no interest in further stating the obvious.

O.K. Yes Sword is right Kalo meant the moral of slow and steady wins the race yet thats not the true moral. The true moral is those who are cautious and pay attention are those who are usually the fastest. You sir enforced my point and thus proved me right. Thank you.

Kalovale did indeed refer to the Aesop's fable, but he said it will not be like it. He meant that, if you make a rabbit and a tortoise race each other, the rabbit will definitely win.

There's no point arguing this based on that fable; anthropomorphism ruins everything. There's no bloody way a rabbit would say to a tortoise "hey bro, let's race!", and there's no way a rabbit would be overconfident and fall asleep during said race (partly because it won't happen in the first place, but mostly because animals aren't like that).

Kalovale did indeed refer to the Aesop's fable, but he said it will not be like it. He meant that, if you make a rabbit and a tortoise race each other, the rabbit will definitely win.

There's no point arguing this based on that fable; anthropomorphism ruins everything. There's no bloody way a rabbit would say to a tortoise "hey bro, let's race!", and there's no way a rabbit would be overconfident and fall asleep during said race (partly because it won't happen in the first place, but mostly because animals aren't like that).

Glad to see someone getting it. I started to get confused myself about what comes off from my own wording. Bringing the fable into this matter makes a comparison between the turtle winning the race and Illusion winning the DPS battle, both are as unlikely as f'uck and only under certain very special and unrealistic (ironically we're speaking about reality here) circumstances, which in no freaking way in hell would be available in MS, possible.

Nevermind, I re-read it since page 3, seems silly enough. Should've just ended here:

Numbers are everything.

There's nothing in this game that can make Illusion stronger WHILE MAKING SURE THAT PHANTOM IMPRINT DOES NOT GET THE SAME TREATMENT.
Then again, what possible factor(s) that might or might not exist cannot be expressed in mathematical terms? Maybe love? Even so, let's say when you level up, the bond between Evan and Mir grows stronger and Illusion's damage grows by a factor determined by the formula: IllusionBonus = max damage range* (initialAffection + timeSpentTogether*likenessRate).

Final Charge and Toss without needing to Triple Swing... *drools*

This, seriously.

No, defense reduction is %-based now.
And it's pretty obvious (yet stupid) why this argument took place. Look at how the two sides (or at least SwordStaker's side) interpret the rabbit-tortoise story. They think miracles happen. In MapleStory. I have no interest in further stating the obvious.

ok, thanks for correcting me. PI is still stronger though.

Wow, that aran video...final charge has no like in-between delay but then its actual delay is longer than rush, but not needing to combo drastically changes how aran plays. They seem no different than a hero now except for a fading combo charge that you need to keep up. But did they nerf combat step's distance? I know it drops down to level 5 from 15 or something but I didn't think distance travelled would have changed. But overall I like the changes. And if final toss is spammable, say goodbye to overswing lol.

I'm calling that they will give random teleport a cooldown of 10-20seconds

I'm calling that they will give random teleport a cooldown of 10-20seconds

Why? It's not like it breaks the game, maps are quite little, so it doesn't have such a big impact.

No, defense reduction is %-based now.
And it's pretty obvious (yet stupid) why this argument took place. Look at how the two sides (or at least SwordStaker's side) interpret the rabbit-tortoise story. They think miracles happen. In MapleStory. I have no interest in further stating the obvious.

Yet again I love how people do not get anything I'm saying. I do NOT say PI could be weaker then Illusion but for MYSELF I want to see a comparison of the two skills used in a boss fight. Before I make a final conclusion. If the times of the run are literally 1-2 seconds off then the damage between the skills wouldn't even be worth to go ahead and use PI if using Illusion makes your time only 1-2 seconds slower

Kalovale did indeed refer to the Aesop's fable, but he said it will not be like it. He meant that, if you make a rabbit and a tortoise race each other, the rabbit will definitely win.

There's no point arguing this based on that fable; anthropomorphism ruins everything. There's no bloody way a rabbit would say to a tortoise "hey bro, let's race!", and there's no way a rabbit would be overconfident and fall asleep during said race (partly because it won't happen in the first place, but mostly because animals aren't like that).

Well no duh it wouldn't happen in the first place your taking the story literally which is the whole damn problem here. Watching you people is like watching Bio-Dome.

No, defense reduction is %-based now.
And it's pretty obvious (yet stupid) why this argument took place. Look at how the two sides (or at least SwordStaker's side) interpret the rabbit-tortoise story. They think miracles happen. In MapleStory. I have no interest in further stating the obvious.

Get your head out of your ass Kalo Tang started the argument and all Sword did was simply say he would like to see a comparison. Somehow that tranlates to:"Ill is better than lettering". He says nothing of that sort and the fact is hes right about wanting to see a visual explination. Plus the fact Ill is affected by CO could really change a lot considering that +2 levels could give it just enough power to out beat lettering even though it has speed.

You want literal I'll give you literal. If a smaller person fights a large powerful person whos also rather fast the powerful person will crush the smaller person. Just because he has speed means thing. If they fight in a confined space he can easily be caught and then will be crushed. There are chances the smaller person could win but he would have to be so fast that the other guy could not catch him. But, if the big guy once catches him it's over. There ya go theres your literal.

They changed some skills during Big Bang back and forth 4-5 times.

Yes Dusk thats the point. They changed it a lot so they could change this a lot.

Also I'm going to add on to this: It's sad that how one person wants to see a visual representation and everybody has to jump on them and call them an idiot just because a number on a white page say so. If your going to do an experiment you have to do the steps which is exactly what he's doing. Asking a question to be tested>Looks at this and decides he wants to test it(research)>Construct a Hypothesis>Test through Observation and Trail>Analyze to change any variables>Conclude. Thats exactly what he's doing and somehow thats wrong. Really people it's sad. Ya'll are jumping from point A to point F. Your doing resarch>conclusion without any testinng. Also if I recall many people said they would like to see videos post bb to decide for themselves if a skill is desirable or not now, or how it compares to one thing to another. Oh how the irony catches up to us.

Yet again I love how people do not get anything I'm saying. I do NOT say PI could be weaker then Illusion but for MYSELF I want to see a comparison of the two skills used in a boss fight. Before I make a final conclusion. If the times of the run are literally 1-2 seconds off then the damage between the skills wouldn't even be worth to go ahead and use PI if using Illusion makes your time only 1-2 seconds slower

I would very much like to ask you why you keep insisting that everyone is jumping to conclusion. What conclusions are they "jumping" at? Simple. Illusion is crap, which you seemingly don't agree with. They further go to elaborate their claim: Illusion is crap when compared with Phantom Imprint, because if you have two things doing the same thing WHILE ONE THING IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, there is no reason to use the worse one, thus it's crap (define(crap): obsolete).

Of course, Illusion isn't necessarily crap in everyone's books. Someone out there would much prefer to use Illusion because of its aesthetic advantages, because of an obscure religion in Central Africa that compels everyone and their mother to use only Illusion when playing MapleStory, or simply because they feel like it. However, this does not change the fact that Illusion's evaluation generally is about its usefulness, which pales in comparison with Phantom Imprint's (for the moment, at least). For JoeTang, for donovan, for me, for most people on Southperry, I dare assume, Illusion is crap.

You want literal I'll give you literal. If a smaller person fights a large powerful person whos also rather fast the powerful person will crush the smaller person. Just because he has speed means thing. If they fight in a confined space he can easily be caught and then will be crushed. There are chances the smaller person could win but he would have to be so fast that the other guy could not catch him. But, if the big guy once catches him it's over. There ya go theres your literal.

That's why I brought up the tortoise race at all. There are unpredictable factors that affect the outcomes in, well, unpredictable ways. I did make the comparison between you comparing Illusion vs. Phantom Imprint and a typical example of how you could be right (instead of you having to do so yourself). What more do you want?
After having pointed out the conditions for you being right, we move on to evaluate the possibilities of those conditions being satisfied, which don't seem very promising in an environment that is MapleStory.

Also, I thought SwordStaker was not refuting the point that Phantom Imprint is better than Illusion (citations everywhere), but trying to get some other point across? You're making it seem like he wanted confirmation in the first place.

EDIT:

it's very possible that in later levels of Illusion that even though its slower with more power it could out damage PI ONLY if it's damage output margin is huge in comparison. Thats all I'm trying to god damn say

See? This is all he's trying to say. Illusion could be stronger than Phantom Imprint. No, it could not.

Yes Dusk thats the point. They changed it a lot so they could change this a lot.

Also I'm going to add on to this: It's sad that how one person wants to see a visual representation and everybody has to jump on them and call them an idiot just because a number on a white page say so. If your going to do an experiment you have to do the steps which is exactly what he's doing. Asking a question to be tested>Looks at this and decides he wants to test it(research)>Construct a Hypothesis>Test through Observation and Trail>Analyze to change any variables>Conclude. Thats exactly what he's doing and somehow thats wrong. Really people it's sad. Ya'll are jumping from point A to point F. Your doing resarch>conclusion without any testinng. Also if I recall many people said they would like to see videos post bb to decide for themselves if a skill is desirable or not now, or how it compares to one thing to another. Oh how the irony catches up to us.

No, it seems that you are missing my point, which is that there does not need to be justification for one skill being stronger than the other, therefore no videos are needed to test anything.

There is only a point A, which is the numbers given, and a point B, which is the conclusion. You are creating 4 points out of pineappleing nowhere. This is not that complicated of an issue.

I would very much like to ask you why you keep insisting that everyone is jumping to conclusion. What conclusions are they "jumping" at? Simple. Illusion is crap, which you seemingly don't agree with. They further go to elaborate their claim: Illusion is crap when compared with Phantom Imprint, because if you have two things doing the same thing WHILE ONE THING IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, there is no reason to use the worse one, thus it's crap (define(crap): obsolete).

Of course, Illusion isn't necessarily crap in everyone's books. Someone out there would much prefer to use Illusion because of its aesthetic advantages, because of an obscure religion in Central Africa that compels everyone and their mother to use only Illusion when playing MapleStory, or simply because they feel like it. However, this does not change the fact that Illusion's evaluation generally is about its usefulness, which pales in comparison with Phantom Imprint's (for the moment, at least). For JoeTang, for donovan, for me, for most people on Southperry, I dare assume, Illusion is crap.

You can conclude all you want but why you people have a problem with me saying what I think and why I say you shouldn't jump to conclusion shouldn't be your concern. Also because as Canute said when comparing damage between a level 10 illusion and maxed out PI the damage was very little to even compare. With that said it's very possible that in later levels of Illusion that even though its slower with more power it could out damage PI ONLY if it's damage output margin is huge in comparison. Thats all I'm trying to god damn say

No, it seems that you are missing my point, which is that there does not need to be justification for one skill being stronger than the other, therefore no videos are needed to test anything.

There is only a point A, which is the numbers given, and a point B, which is the conclusion. You are creating 4 points out of pineappleing nowhere. This is not that complicated of an issue.

What? You just completely dodged around what I commented you on. You said they changed skills 4-5 times in Big Bang. So there you proved my point that Nexon isn't going to let skill changes slip through their fingers.They did the same thing with rebalancing the explorers they did 3 patches to finally get a conclusion. Also wow you claim your a logical community when sadly you have no logical part in your brain. That or you failed science class. Maybe if I explain this on your level it'll make sense. Good boy you got the research! Now what do you think will happen? Oh you think lettering is better? Well lets test it out! Yayy! We just watched videos and tested ourself both of the skills and timed it as well. What times did you get boy? Oh really!? Now conclude it, which is better?

You can conclude all you want but why you people have a problem with me saying what I think and why I say you shouldn't jump to conclusion shouldn't be your concern. Also because as Canute said when comparing damage between a level 10 illusion and maxed out PI the damage was very little to even compare. With that said it's very possible that in later levels of Illusion that even though its slower with more power it could out damage PI ONLY if it's damage output margin is huge in comparison. Thats all I'm trying to god damn say

No one is comparing level 10 Illusion to maxed Phantom Imprint, what are you talking about? When people say Illusions sucks, they mean MAXED Illusion sucks, DPS-wise. If you disagree AND want to convince others, you'd better do it convincingly. If you disagree and don't want to convince others, don't.
Simply going and saying "oh but you could be wrong I mean I don't know for sure but you could be wrong I told you" doesn't help anyone.

heres a way illusion>PI, 999,999 x4 is better then 999,999 haha

No one is comparing level 10 Illusion to maxed Phantom Imprint, what are you talking about? When people say Illusions sucks, they mean MAXED Illusion sucks, DPS-wise. If you disagree AND want to convince others, you'd better do it convincingly. If you disagree and don't want to convince others, don't.
Simply going and saying "oh but you could be wrong I mean I don't know for sure but you could be wrong I told you" doesn't help anyone.

But the whole point is your going off of NOTHING other than what this says. You have YET to see ANY comparison other than whats on this page. That is not ENOUGH to draw a 100% ACCURATE conclusion. In no way do I say I'm RIGHT I'm saying I myself would rather test that but land of the idiots can't get that.

Kind of a deja-vu, isn't it. Numbers aren't everything. Hate to repeat myself, but this should've just ended here:

Numbers are everything.

v.s

That is not ENOUGH to draw a 100% ACCURATE conclusion.

What? You just completely dodged around what I commented you on. You said they changed skills 4-5 times in Big Bang. So there you proved my point that Nexon isn't going to let skill changes slip through their fingers.They did the same thing with rebalancing the explorers they did 3 patches to finally get a conclusion. Also wow you claim your a logical community when sadly you have no logical part in your brain. That or you failed science class. Maybe if I explain this on your level it'll make sense. Good boy you got the research! Now what do you think will happen? Oh you think lettering is better? Well lets test it out! Yayy! We just watched videos and tested ourself both of the skills and timed it as well. What times did you get boy? Oh really!? Now conclude it, which is better?

You do not need a 257-page report complete with years of research, evidence, and references to show that A > B. Good god. This is a middle school math problem. And re-read my earlier post. You think you're arguing that they will change the skills, when in fact I never disagreed with that idea and I wasn't even talking about it.

You do not need a 257-page report complete with years of research, evidence, and references to show that A > B. Good god. This is a middle school math problem. And re-read my earlier post. You think you're arguing that they will change the skills, when in fact I never disagreed with that idea and I wasn't even talking about it.

You completely went on a different subject in that regard. Plus you can't go back an change what you already said. You said Nexon for years have left broken skills in the game. I challenged, then you agreed, then I said you proved my point, then you went on a completely different road then what you were saying, struggling to try and prove me wrong. Did I ever hint that?No I simply said if you wish to have an accurate conception of a problem you need to do a simple experiment analysis. If you wish to know what middle school is thats middle school. Please go back to it and learn what the scientific method is.