Damn atheists!

This thread serves no purpose because the arguments in question depend more on the fundamental assumptions than the logic building up from those assumptions.

Religious people take as a given that God exists and their logic proves through various phenomena and arguments that God does exist.

Atheists take it as a given that God does not exist, and their logic proves through various phenomena and arguments that God does not exist.

What you "need" to conclude things either way is empirical and personal proof one way or the other. Each person decides this issue either by himself or with emotional (not logical) nudging from others. This is usually done by early childhood. A 5 year old is not very articulate about his beliefs, but 20 years later, he still holds them, logic and all. I personally had a chain of events happen to me that's less probable than me winning the lottery, and I can't explain it in secular terms. Then again, if I put this chain of events down, the atheists would dissect it and dismiss it because they are working from their fundamental assumptions which support their belief system. So, I don't put it down; it's my personal beliefs, no need to stick them in your face.

My point is, trying to prove that God exists to someone who does not believe it, or trying to prove that God does NOT exist to someone who believes it is not argument, it's missionary work. You are appealing to EMOTIONS through CHARISMA. If you look at successful missionaries, from St. Francis to Mother Teresa, they all worked like that. The militant atheists are JUST as much missionaries as these people, as they think it is their duty as atheists to shove the non-God into every "bible-thumper's" face. Thomas Aquinas, who was probably the best in Christian history at proving God through logic wrote all he wrote so that missionaries would have logical support in their emotional conversion efforts. I am actually a believer in God, but not so blind that I do not see these things.

My point is, unless you are comfortable with your role as missionary as approaching the other side, it makes no sense to argue this stuff and people should just find things in common with each other rather than bash on each other's beliefs. Nothing productive comes of this stuff, and you'll just raise your blood pressure to the point where eventually you have a stroke.

Edit: I didn't see this new page. I have to go do something but I will return and respond to it.


"When you deliberately attack a person using offensive and/or inappropriate language."
Thats the definition I got for Bashing. Comparing fictional characters and beliefs with eachother is not bashing.

What assumption? Its a fact that children of religious parents do not have choice in their religious upbringing.

There are daily murders, especially in North African and Middle Easterns countries due to religious differneces.

Yes I do agree that saying Christians are all this way. I am just stating the conclusion I got from the statistics I mentioned earlier.

I used the Christian exmaple because that the religion bring up on this thread. But yes, religious people kill eachother. I am not attacking Christianity. I am attacking religion.

The foundings fathers were men of intellect, sure many of them were Christians but caling devout is far from accurate. Most of them questioned it. The reason why they were Christian was because being Atheist was social suicide. How else would they have been able to mantain office? Not to mention that this was before Darwin.

I am not against Christmas trees since they are now more of an American cultural thing than a celebration of Saint Nicholas. I am against however putting Crosses and the Ten Commandments in public places because it interferes with my right to practice or not practice religion. If suddenly statues of the Koran were put everywhere in this country, there would be mass protests.

Empires have used religion as their reason, but like I said, its only a reason. The Soviet Union and China used radical Nationalism to take control, just like previous empires used radical religion.

North Korea might be secular but their leader is prayed to daily.

I didn't modern Christians(at least for the most part)support murdering Muslims, but there are religious overtones. That is why local muslim people were attacked in the beginning on the war of terror, not because thier ethnicity, or nationality, but because of their religion.

How is class warfare an Atheist thing? Not everything that is non-religious holds responsibility on the Atheists. Its a cultural thing and divorce is higher some say because women have more options now. Women gaining power was poart of several women movements and people that did not agree with the bible interpretation.(basically the truth about how the bible viewed women)

I am not against Christmas trees since they are now more of an American cultural thing than a celebration of Saint Nicholas. I am against however putting Crosses and the Ten Commandments in public places because it interferes with my right to practice or not practice religion. If suddenly statues of the Koran were put everywhere in this country, there would be mass protests.

How does having a cross in a public place interfere with your right to practice or not practice religion? If you see a cross, does it automatically convert you to Christianity? No. If there was a law passed that said you had to worship at any cross you saw, that would interfere, but this doesn't.

There are daily murders, especially in North African and Middle Easterns countries due to religious differneces.

Yet how many killing are there in China due to people trying to worship freely?

What assumption? Its a fact that children of religious parents do not have choice in their religious upbringing.

They have a major influence, and almost definitely have the final word, at least until their children reach 18.

Thats the definition I got for Bashing. Comparing fictional characters and beliefs with eachother is not bashing.

So suppose I compare science to a toilet "because they're both full of crap", but without saying so. Would that not be bashing?

The foundings fathers were men of intellect, sure many of them were Christians but caling devout is far from accurate. Most of them questioned it. The reason why they were Christian was because being Atheist was social suicide. How else would they have been able to mantain office? Not to mention that this was before Darwin.

I never SAID that the founding fathers were devout Christians. They are Deist. If you skimmed over my post too quickly, I was referring to the general population at the time.

I am not against Christmas trees since they are now more of an American cultural thing than a celebration of Saint Nicholas. I am against however putting Crosses and the Ten Commandments in public places because it interferes with my right to practice or not practice religion. If suddenly statues of the Koran were put everywhere in this country, there would be mass protests.

Crosses, maybe not. Ten Commandments is directly relevant to law, so there is legitimate reason that it is there, just as if there were a widely accepted depiction of Hammurabi's Codes (or however you refer to them).

I didn't modern Christians(at least for the most part)support murdering Muslims, but there are religious overtones. That is why local muslim people were attacked in the beginning on the war of terror, not because thier ethnicity, or nationality, but because of their religion.

If you paid attention to the media at the time, it was usually the turbaned, bearded, Middle Eastern men that were being attacked. Were they carrying a Koran? No. They were targeted for their ethnicity.

Empires have used religion as their reason, but like I said, its only a reason. The Soviet Union and China used radical Nationalism to take control, just like previous empires used radical religion.

You miss my point. They were using atheism to take control, not just nationalism.

How is class warfare an Atheist thing? Not everything that is non-religious holds responsibility on the Atheists. Its a cultural thing and divorce is higher some say because women have more options now. Women gaining power was poart of several women movements and people that did not agree with the bible interpretation.(basically the truth about how the bible viewed women)

When I put Soviet Union, China, and North Korea in the example above, I expected you to connect the two.