Captain Planet Mafia Discussion Thread.

God he put up as much as a fight as Polantaris.

I don't see what's wrong with claiming.
I even soft- claimed early in the game.
Maybe it was too subtle because no one noticed, not even the person who I was talking to or else someone might've tried to stop the lynch
Still, I don' t get what's wrong with claiming. Mafia has a lot of info from the start but town can't help themselves?

"I also told you your airpower was sh'it."

It got you out of the game.

Because everyone is ignorant sheep? Cute.

I don't see what's wrong about roleclaiming. It helps to give the game direction rather than to simply lynch or judge based on actions, plus it may become a necessity if it looks like you're about to get lynched and you're someone important.

I don't see what's wrong about roleclaiming. It helps to give the game direction rather than to simply lynch or judge based on actions, plus it may become a necessity if it looks like you're about to get lynched and you're someone important.

The trick is usually to drop bread crumbs throughout your post that you can go back and cite if you need to. Roleclaiming as a last ditch defense for a lynch is pretty annoying with no prior evidence to support you and creates a WIFOM. I have mixed feelings about mass roleclaiming, though - it's useful to an extent, but, ESPECIALLY in themed games with major/famous characters, it can almost make things too easy for the town to get ahead. When you know there are x amount of noteworthy characters on either side (for example, let's say Pokemon Gym Leaders, where you KNOW there will be 8) any roleclaims of minor characters become instantly suspicious and any uncountered claims of major characters become almost instant innocence.

The trick is usually to drop bread crumbs throughout your post that you can go back and cite if you need to. Roleclaiming as a last ditch defense for a lynch is pretty annoying with no prior evidence to support you and creates a WIFOM. I have mixed feelings about mass roleclaiming, though - it's useful to an extent, but, ESPECIALLY in themed games with major/famous characters, it can almost make things too easy for the town to get ahead. When you know there are x amount of noteworthy characters on either side (for example, let's say Pokemon Gym Leaders, where you KNOW there will be 8) any roleclaims of minor characters become instantly suspicious and any uncountered claims of major characters become almost instant innocence.

True, I neglected the fact that even counting the lack of Gaia having a power here it's still almost obvious how many people are on the town's side.

True, I neglected the fact that even counting the lack of Gaia having a power here it's still almost obvious how many people are on the town's side.

Normally a good balanced ratio is 75% town 25% mafia.

God he put up as much as a fight as Polantaris.

That was unnecessary. I actually had enough flavor text from the nights to fake a roleclaim, but I chose not to because I had a family thing going on (Nothing good), and I had no wish to be ignoring my family to be watching the thread all weekend. Sorry, life comes first. Too bad if it hurts the game. I didn't expect it before I signed up.

I don't see what's wrong about roleclaiming. It helps to give the game direction rather than to simply lynch or judge based on actions, plus it may become a necessity if it looks like you're about to get lynched and you're someone important.

Honestly, my major issue with roleclaiming, at least here, is that people tend to just believe or not believe whoever made the claim, and never change their mind. Take a look at Corn. He claimed Doctor on Day 1, and as far as I can tell has given absolutely nothing to back up that claim(Going, "Yeah all me that no one died!" doesn't prove anything at all), yet everyone treats him like the holy grail of the game. For all you know my pre-lynch speech is 100% correct, and you guys are digging your own graves by treating him this way. Yet, others later on roleclaim, and you expect waves upon waves of flavor text, earlier hints in their messages, and all kinds of crap to believe them, yet Corn never had to provide any of that and is considered squeaky clean even now. What exactly gives him this protection? The fact that he's not dead? That's more reason to suspect him. He's claiming the DOCTOR! He basically said on Day 1, "Target me, I'm practically the most important character for the town and I can't protect myself!"

There's nothing wrong with roleclaiming, there's something wrong with stone pillar mindsets once you've set that mindset. Roleclaims are the cause of this.

Plus, who roleclaims on Day 1 to get themselves out of a lynch? Are you kidding me? Day 1 should be the easiest day to talk yourself out of anything. No one has ANYTHING on you. Everyone is going on a single or a couple of small messages in posts and nothing else. It should be beyond easy to talk yourself out of an early lynch, and if you provide enough of a reason to change minds and people don't, your still doing the town a favor because they have an idea of who is likely mafia solely due to the fact that they wouldn't budge when they have no reason to want you dead so badly unless they were. Yes, the town would lose a valuable asset even if you were the Doctor, however especially in a Non-Vanilla game, you have other roles that are just as valuable. I'm sorry but a Day 1 roleclaim is ridiculous.

I haven't even played any other mafia games besides this one and I've come to these conclusions, which seem pretty simple to determine to me.

Also, when it came to Day 2 for this game, I practically gave myself away. There was almost no reason to attack Afeared. The fact that I pulled that off is rather surprising. I talked too much, and I very much expected to wake up before the end of Day 2 with a lynch at me for being way too convincing towards Afeared going off of basically nothing. Yes, it got me killed on Day 3, but see above, plus I still got the Listener killed over nothing.

I admit there is a bit too much meta-gaming that goes on during SP mafia games. Certain players have taken on certain roles in mafia games and the regulars always expect the same thing from that player and believe them.

Like, Corn is the most famous role-claimer ever, except for one mafia game in which his role actually forbidden him from roleclaiming he has basically role-claimed on day 1 of every mafia game we have had.


Also, for a while the mafia or the neutral for the game would target a certain player because of how good they were at the game. DualReaver, MasPan, myself and a few others have been the victim of such treatment.



I wish it wasn't that way and each mafia could be something new and different, but. -shurg-

That still depends on what's going on. I mean, I'd be inclined to say it's ridiculous but if you're going to get lynched anyway and there's almost no time left before the vote closes there's only that left and by right any person playing in a mafia game should know better than to take a roleclaim at face value. If at anything Corn is not getting lynched most likely because he still looks like he's on the town's side and he may be the person fighting against pollution who's not on the planet's side for all we know.

Really, it's just that the climate of this discussion is getting snappy for something that is a dubious strategy to begin with. My only real problem with it is if people just follow the roleclaimer with no thought to pay attention to other details which seems to be what's happening here.

@above: I would hope that would happen less, but. *Shrug*

That still depends on what's going on. I mean, I'd be inclined to say it's ridiculous but if you're going to get lynched anyway and there's almost no time left before the vote closes there's only that left and by right any person playing in a mafia game should know better than to take a roleclaim at face value. If at anything Corn is not getting lynched most likely because he still looks like he's on the town's side and he may be the person fighting against pollution who's not on the planet's side for all we know.

Really, it's just that the climate of this discussion is getting snappy for something that is a dubious strategy to begin with. My only real problem with it is if people just follow the roleclaimer with no thought to pay attention to other details which seems to be what's happening here.

I agree completely. That's exactly my problem as well.

I can agree with a roleclaim if it's the last second, but it was like six hours into the day. The game had barely been started, a couple of votes went towards him, and immediately, "I'M THE DOCTOR DON'T LYNCH ME!" Come on, really? That's your only way to talk yourself out of a Day 1 Lynch? Come on.

I admit there is a bit too much meta-gaming that goes on during SP mafia games. Certain players have taken on certain roles in mafia games and the regulars always expect the same thing from that player and believe them.

Like, Corn is the most famous role-claimer ever, except for one mafia game in which his role actually forbidden him from roleclaiming he has basically role-claimed on day 1 of every mafia game we have had.

Also, for a while the mafia or the neutral for the game would target a certain player because of how good they were at the game. DualReaver, MasPan, myself and a few others have been the victim of such treatment.

I wish it wasn't that way and each mafia could be something new and different, but. -shurg-

Maybe said players should be trying to play differently once in a while, at least when it comes to things that cause huge game changers like this.

I have no problem with how MasPan was playing. I'll admit, I considered trying to kill him more than once simply based upon his clear skill, but there's a difference between that and not even trying to play and roleclaiming almost immediately. Part of the appeal I had in mafia originally was the point of convincing people to do things they shouldn't, and trying to talk yourself out of things. I haven't really seen much of the latter, and really there wasn't much of the former either. I get that there's going to be deductive reasoning, but that's all that's being used for the most part. Words are almost never trusted unless they are completely proven, which defeats the point of half the game. I don't think everyone should be treating everyone else like an enemy at all times. There's a reason there's more Townies than Mafia. There's a large margin of error in the town's favor, but it's often used incorrectly in my opinion. There should be room for trusting at least slightly.

The way it seems to be to me is: "If you have a good role, you better inject it into your messages starting Day 2 or else you are bad, regardless of if you are or not." You should be able to keep your role completely hidden until it's absolutely necessary to show it, but if you do that, you're a liar and are going to be lynched for trying to roleclaim what you are.

@above: I would hope that would happen less, but. *Shrug*

Most "issues" got better over time, but Corn is a role-claimer at heart. And I am not saying that is a bad thing, one thing I like about mafia is that everyone has a different style of play. And whatever style it isn't really good or bad in my opinion. And you can never truly meta-game a style of play.





[MENTION=6823]Polantaris[/MENTION]; Well, I hope you don't shy away from future games just because of what has happened in this one. Your style of playing should be a good addition to what we have already.

And while each mafia game tends to share certain events (Doctor or Cop getting lynched on Day 1 or 2) they tend to stand on their own pretty much unique to each other.



Also, I do disagree with Corn's statement. You went out all calm and level-headed which is way better than Afeared going "Don't lynch me or you'll all regret it" since in my mind that is a scum tell right there.



Though, the biggest thing about mafia is opinions, opinions, opinions. There will be other players who will get on your nerves because how they play, it is a fact. The question becomes do you ignore all this and play for the enjoyment of the game, or quit because the way someone else enjoys the game is different from the way you do and it annoys you?

If the following message its too spoilerific tell me to remove it:

 Spoiler

Well the fact that corn doesn't provide proof of his doctorship, and that other people start jumping in everyone's radar, makes the whole situation with corn roleclaiming in the backburner. You are not going to lynch him in day 1 just to see if its truth he's the doctor, that would be the most stupid move the townies could make, nobody counterclaimed corn's role, even if he's the doctor or not most people would expect the mafia to kill him with a night action on the first night, but that didn't happen either. All in all the ambiguate of the whole issue makes it difficult to take an action against him, so like i said it just place it in the backburner until something more concrete about corn comes to light.

Most "issues" got better over time, but Corn is a role-claimer at heart. And I am not saying that is a bad thing, one thing I like about mafia is that everyone has a different style of play. And whatever style it isn't really good or bad in my opinion. And you can never truly meta-game a style of play.

Except for Synthesist. His "style" was to not talk at all unless absolutely necessary. This became so frustrating to deal with that he tended to get lynched very early most games.

Except for Synthesist. His "style" was to not talk at all unless absolutely necessary. This became so frustrating to deal with that he tended to get lynched very early most games.

Opinions. As I said I don't find any style truly good or bad, just different. I liked Syn's style personally. But, once again, opinions!

I agree completely. That's exactly my problem as well.

I can agree with a roleclaim if it's the last second, but it was like six hours into the day. The game had barely been started, a couple of votes went towards him, and immediately, "I'M THE DOCTOR DON'T LYNCH ME!" Come on, really? That's your only way to talk yourself out of a Day 1 Lynch? Come on.

If I'm not mistaken he did that when the day was almost at the close (But then again I am bad with non-GMT + 8 times). Things like this are a bother to me as people get swayed and then you have a game where some may rush to claim the good roles although everyone's important and certainly, based on what you said it's pretty obvious that if Corn isn't the doctor the real doctor would prefer to remain hidden given that he seems to have at least ONE role in this game and I still haven't discounted the possibility of a bus driver due to the other flavour PMs.

Like what Meta said, I'd like to see you play more. That bit with Afeared was pretty well played even if he did talk every bit like a mafia member.

[MENTION=6823]Polantaris[/MENTION]; Well, I hope you don't shy away from future games just because of what has happened in this one. Your style of playing should be a good addition to what we have already.

And while each mafia game tends to share certain events (Doctor or Cop getting lynched on Day 1 or 2) they tend to stand on their own pretty much unique to each other.



Also, I do disagree with Corn's statement. You went out all calm and level-headed which is way better than Afeared going "Don't lynch me or you'll all regret it" since in my mind that is a scum tell right there.



Though, the biggest thing about mafia is opinions, opinions, opinions. There will be other players who will get on your nerves because how they play, it is a fact. The question becomes do you ignore all this and play for the enjoyment of the game, or quit because the way someone else enjoys the game is different from the way you do and it annoys you?

I definitely intend to play again. I'm pointing out what I am in hopes that every game doesn't end up with the same issues. As essentially an outsider to Mafia games and SP's Mafia as a whole, I think my input would be valuable to those willing to listen to it.

Opinions. As I said I don't find any style truly good or bad, just different. I liked Syn's style personally. But, once again, opinions!

[COLOR="#cc8899"]What I mean is that, while it's a solid strategy on an individual basis - he's not likely to get offed by the mafia if he's not perceived to be a threat - it adds little to the game for other players and spectators. It's also dangerously suicidal - a large part of the reason it causes the mafia to leave you alone is that it makes the town much more likely to lynch you.

It's got its uses, and as a metagame it makes it difficult to identify if he was scum or not, but as another player it's irritating to play with someone using that strategy because there's little/no interaction. [/COLOR]

What I mean is that, while it's a solid strategy on an individual basis - he's not likely to get offed by the mafia if he's not perceived to be a threat - it adds little to the game for other players and spectators. It's also dangerously suicidal - a large part of the reason it causes the mafia to leave you alone is that it makes the town much more likely to lynch you.

It's got its uses, and as a metagame it makes it difficult to identify if he was scum or not, but as another player it's irritating to play with someone using that strategy because there's little/no interaction.

Didn't Syn play in the SSB Mafia game?

I definitely intend to play again. I'm pointing out what I am in hopes that every game doesn't end up with the same issues. As essentially an outsider to Mafia games and SP's Mafia as a whole, I think my input would be valuable to those willing to listen to it.

I agree. Some fresh blood should liven things up around here.

It's got its uses, and as a metagame it makes it difficult to identify if he was scum or not, but as another player it's irritating to play with someone using that strategy because there's little/no interaction.

I see your point when it comes to that.






Anyway.

@Corn;
@FenixR;
@ChaoticCJ;
@Zelkova;
@Moldyvort;
@VerrKol;
@MasPan;


Night 5 won't end for another 8 hours, but I am only missing 3 night actions so get those in.