The Issue on Leech

Leeching is nothing more then paying Nexon mesos to achieve the same effect as vac-hacking. The only reason Nexon allows leeching is because it's their way of -gaining- money from people who otherwise would be hacking.

Also, leeching stimulates hacking. Not everyone wants to (or can) pay Nexon NX (so they can buy mesos from Nexon), and start vaccing (look at wolfspiders...) for mesos for paying for leech. If people wonder why there's still hacking in gMS, the answer is: leechers...

Also, people who leech, embrace the fact that it's "allowed" by Nexon, and try to get a better "in-game-status" then hackers, while in fact they're the same kind...

Sure you can do with your money what you want, but just don't claim you're "better" then a hacker when you leech or flaunt with your lvl / damage / skills...

P.S. : With leeching I mean -MASS- leeching (lvl 30~160+)...

Leeching is nothing more then paying Nexon mesos to achieve the same effect as vac-hacking. The only reason Nexon allows leeching is because it's their way of -gaining- money from people who otherwise would be hacking.

Also, leeching stimulates hacking. Not everyone wants to (or can) pay Nexon NX (so they can buy mesos from Nexon), and start vaccing (look at wolfspiders...) for mesos for paying for leech. If people wonder why there's still hacking in gMS, the answer is: leechers...

Also, people who leech, embrace the fact that it's "allowed" by Nexon, and try to get a better "in-game-status" then hackers, while in fact they're the same kind...

Sure you can do with your money what you want, but just don't claim you're "better" then a hacker when you leech or flaunt with your lvl / damage / skills...

P.S. : With leeching I mean -MASS- leeching (lvl 30~160+)...

Completely expected from Devil o_o

Leeching is nothing more then paying Nexon mesos to achieve the same effect as vac-hacking. The only reason Nexon allows leeching is because it's their way of -gaining- money from people who otherwise would be hacking.

Also, leeching stimulates hacking. Not everyone wants to (or can) pay Nexon NX (so they can buy mesos from Nexon), and start vaccing (look at wolfspiders...) for mesos for paying for leech. If people wonder why there's still hacking in gMS, the answer is: leechers...

Also, people who leech, embrace the fact that it's "allowed" by Nexon, and try to get a better "in-game-status" then hackers, while in fact they're the same kind...

Sure you can do with your money what you want, but just don't claim you're "better" then a hacker when you leech or flaunt with your lvl / damage / skills...

P.S. : With leeching I mean -MASS- leeching (lvl 30~160+)...

Oh dear God...

I guess you won't party a mage will you?

Trust me I dont solo by choice. As Cyanne said, if I could find someone not busy leeching people, wanting to party a different class, not a hacker/ex hacker, etc, I'd jump at the chance to party.

I'm not jealous of other people...I'm pissed that it takes me 60+ hours to level...its the time it takes me to level that upsets and annoys me. If it took me 6 hours to level instead of 60 and a leecher 2 hours by comparison it wouldnt bother me...its my time and effort I'm concerned with...I just hate having to spend a month and a half to level...I'd be happy with even 5% an hour.

Leeching is nothing more then paying Nexon mesos to achieve the same effect as vac-hacking. The only reason Nexon allows leeching is because it's their way of -gaining- money from people who otherwise would be hacking.

Also, leeching stimulates hacking. Not everyone wants to (or can) pay Nexon NX (so they can buy mesos from Nexon), and start vaccing (look at wolfspiders...) for mesos for paying for leech. If people wonder why there's still hacking in gMS, the answer is: leechers...

Also, people who leech, embrace the fact that it's "allowed" by Nexon, and try to get a better "in-game-status" then hackers, while in fact they're the same kind...

Sure you can do with your money what you want, but just don't claim you're "better" then a hacker when you leech or flaunt with your lvl / damage / skills...

P.S. : With leeching I mean -MASS- leeching (lvl 30~160+)...

wow... so wrong... dont know where to start. Guess ill throw in my rebuttals by paragraph.

First paragraph. I dont have a whole lot of arguement except for the fact that, you arent paying nexon directly, you are paying another player. Sure, you might get your mesos from nexon via gach, mts or other things, but its a distinct difference.

Second paragraph, going by this logic, the mages who cant afford to buy pots would eventually just resort to having alts vaccing for mesos. So... does it really support hacking there? I mean, the mages need the money to train... so they either get it from another player who got it from nexon/hacking (or merchanting, in case you forget people can both buy and sell stuff) or they do that themselves. Also, there is still hacking in GMS because its impossible to get rid of it. Even before 4th job (when leeching got big) hacking was widespread. Saying leeching is the reason hacking still exists is just plain dumb. Hackers will hack. There is nothing you can do to fully stop that, short of doing what KMS does and making us use our friggin SS numbers, which is illegal and would alienate even more outside US citizens for "global". IP ban doesnt work because you can reset fairly easily, and if they happen to be in public, you just screwed a bunch of people over. Banning by MAC address *might* be a solution but again it'd only be temporary, though more of a pain then IP ban.

And hell, you make it sound like the only reason anyone who would resort to hacking to fund their leeching would only do that for leeching. If someone would go that far, they buying equips with that money too.

Third paragragh, i kind of agree with. Nothing is more annoying then a leecher who boasts about his level. But one who boasts about his damage, well they the same as any other dexless NL named NarutoX35235 or w/e. And they ARE, for the most part, better then hackers, but they by no means gain the respect to boast of their levels.

On topic though, since I did leech some in third job, i suppose that puts me in the "Pro-Leecher" camp. And truth be told, i dont mind anyone leeching. But I'd be lying if i didnt say it was painful for me to watch my guildmates level up pirate alts for fun to 15x while im still 130. Just because they have the connections/extra AM and Bishop characters/ 2 PCs to leech very effectively. Personally, i think we'd be well served adding the accuracy formula to PG, so that boss leech would be severly limited.

And for those who say "leeching is giving rise to a bunch of players who dont know how to play their pineappleing characters." Feel free to peach about those individuals, but there is a phrase im reminded of... stupid is stupid, there is no cure. It doesnt directly apply, but, even without leech, you'd eventually wind up with plenty of players who have no idea to play there character. And there are many who have leeched who know how to play their characters very well. Dont group leechers all together like that, just hate stupid people, like i do.

Also, harrisonized, you should really lay off the metaphors. Some are good, but for the most part many just dont fully apply and then everyone criticizes you for it, instead of trying to actually understand your point.

Trust me I dont solo by choice. As Cyanne said, if I could find someone not busy leeching people, wanting to party a different class, not a hacker/ex hacker, etc, I'd jump at the chance to party.

I'm not jealous of other people...I'm pissed that it takes me 60+ hours to level...its the time it takes me to level that upsets and annoys me. If it took me 6 hours to level instead of 60 and a leecher 2 hours by comparison it wouldnt bother me...its my time and effort I'm concerned with...I just hate having to spend a month and a half to level...I'd be happy with even 5% an hour.

... make a new character? i hear at lower levels you get 5% an hour pretty easily. (sorry, sarcasm had to be said, no hard feelings and i respect you devotion to solo at such a high level)

This is one of the things that bothered me when 2x cards started getting more popular. Since when did maple become a job? With appointments and partners and schedules and "Oh i cant train with you tomorrow but im free 4-8 pm next thursday." Its a bit of bullshit, but i understand, i suppose.

Trust me I dont solo by choice. As Cyanne said, if I could find someone not busy leeching people, wanting to party a different class, not a hacker/ex hacker, etc, I'd jump at the chance to party.

I'm not jealous of other people...I'm pissed that it takes me 60+ hours to level...its the time it takes me to level that upsets and annoys me. If it took me 6 hours to level instead of 60 and a leecher 2 hours by comparison it wouldnt bother me...its my time and effort I'm concerned with...I just hate having to spend a month and a half to level...I'd be happy with even 5% an hour.

Yes it sucks, but that's how it is. The real world is going to act the same way. You're going to be dealt things you find unfair or things that are going to bother you. And most of the time, you can't do anything about it. You have to take matters into your own hands or just leave whatever you're doing.

How this applies to MS: Either stick with it, change, or leave. It may be unfair and you'll hate it, but really that's the only thing you can do. Until Nexon actually steps in and does something, which will probabily take a while to configure everything, it'll be a very long time. For now people should just accept it and these threads should just die because like some other people said, these threads are just about people's opinions and they really don't mean anything.

Haha, that was a fun read!

The biggest problem with leeching is that it causes so much dramaz!!!11... but at least it brings entertainment to the board, I suppose!

Anyway...one thing I do remember seeing that made me raise my eyebrows a little...Harrisonized declared someone's point BS because he had never seen the smegas saying, "B>LEECH!" Sorry, Harrisonized, but I don't really agree with you there--they are fairly common on Windia, though maybe not as common as the original poster of the statement would have you believe.

And on the subject of leeching, it doesn't hurt you personally ... you can baww over training maps, or you can pick up your stuff and go to another map, or camp out until someone leaves? Skeles and newties may be the BEST but they are by no means the ONLY...instead of complaining you should just devote that time to levelling at a slightly worse training spot. Then your time wouldn't be wasted!

For the record, I've never leeched, and I do feel a bit of jealousy towards the people in my alliance who have leeched heavily (from like 70-120 without even playing their character once...literally, other people sign on them and leech them) but I don't really care. Maple is not about level anymore, nor is it about damage...people have already claimed those top spots. It's about personal achievement. I'm proud of my level. If a leecher can say the same, kudos to him/her...though why should it make other people upset?

Nice contradiction in the first part of your post.

That's how you define playing. Why are you letting leechers bother you? If your neighbors are having sex and you're at home fapping dying of being a virgin, do you go and complain about it? Leechers are just getting exp on a rope, not bothering you in any way. While they may take up a map, they found it empty and so can you. When leafre mini dungeons come out, this is a moot point.

Edit: And didn't allie make a remark with you being so anti-leech and "Games are meant to be played" when she said something like

"I find it funny how you're like this when you hacked another character up. Aren't games meant to be played?"

No, I did not contradict myself. I am not making up a definition of the word play, I am saying what it is. If you consider leeching "playing", something must be wrong with you.

And yes, leechers bother me because they ruin THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME: competition, ranks. That means nothing nowadays since people can pass me while being away from the game.

And yes, I hacked on another character more than a year ago because I was stupid and didn't think about the consequences. Since then, I have deleted that character and started a new one. People can't change? :f6:

Yes it sucks, but that's how it is. The real world is going to act the same way. You're going to be dealt things you find unfair or things that are going to bother you. And most of the time, you can't do anything about it. You have to take matters into your own hands or just leave whatever you're doing.

He's only sharing his opinion, you know. People do usually share their opinion about things. People coming into a thread should be allowed to state their opinion about things. They shouldn't feel that their comment is criticized in such a way that they feel "Why did you even bother to post that?". I remember times when I got criticized for stating my opinion in a thread regarding wk and mage experience/hr. I remember times you got criticized for stating your opinion about the need of a Fire/Poison-mage in a HT-run. If I replied like this:

Yes it sucks, but that's how it is. The real world is going to act the same way. You're going to be dealt things you find unfair or things that are going to bother you. And most of the time, you can't do anything about it. You have to take matters into your own hands or just leave whatever you're doing.

It would certainly not be nice, would it?

He explains that he doesn't think it makes sense that a character leeching gains more experience than himself, which I agree with. It's true that this is how it currently is, but why, just why should a person go on his bishop so that he can gain the most experience per hour on another character? (And why, just why, aren't magicians/shadowers/pallys needed as much as other classes in HT?)

My thoughts on leaching:

Leaching is not against the TOS.

I couldn't care less who leached and who didn't.

I think since you can already earn lvls with nx (2x exp) that you may as well be able to earn them through mesos (leaching) since after all mts is around to convert mesos to nx.

I don't leach anyone because I can make more mesos / hr merchanting in the FM or farming DM scrolls.

I do advise my low lvl (120+) mage friends to sell leach if they feel poor.

I don't buy leach because if I'm present I want to use my computer for something else (like playing) and if I'm not present how do I know how much they really trained me?

I leach my own characters frequently (even before 4th job came out I leached my own chars) because it's more fun to play the higher lvl char, faster exp for lower lvl char, because I'm playing on 2x drop with a char that the exp for that monster means nothing (0.1% in 4 hours) so I want to train a char that will get something out of the exp from that monster (so I can watch their exp bar and not the person hunting for the drops).

Buying lvls with mesos is no different than buying z-helms with mesos. Anyone who belongs to a z-helm selling guild who is against selling & buying leach is a hypocrite. If stuff needs to be earned in the game not bought & sold then this applies to z-helms and HT pendents as well as experience. If you think selling z-helms & HT pendents is the only way you can make money then too bad, time to change your views. No one wants arch mages in their zak or HT parties so they make money by selling leach.

As far as I'm concerned there is more than one way to win the game, if you win by making money and then you spend money to get ranks (which is considered winning by most people) then it's the same result as spending time training to make the lvls as opposed to making money. If one method is faster than the other or more fun than the other then you should choose the one you like best. Since Nexon provides opportunities to contributors of real $$$ to shorten this time then it doesn't matter if it's shortened by 2x exp, gatcha, pets, stores, smeggas, or buying mesos from nexon.

Im fenced on leech and will probably always be. Some may think that partying an attack spammer while attacking yourself is still leeching, but thats completely stupid, since your attacking. I will admit two things. 1, ive had a friend who leeched me maybe 50%, not much, nothing really worth it. But i didnt pay for it, except maybe pots for him, which is fine by me since he gets a real use out of the pots. 2, Ive been and attacker, and being on dial up, died three twice running up to get HS/MW, so i humped the rope for a lil while, but decided to go back to attacking. And without the HS and MW, i was still getting better exp rates than humping that rope.

So, if your gonna buy leech, ok, thats nice, youll have a hard time trying to get back onto training, but thats your problem, so you can complain all you want about not knowing where to train in really high lvls.

If your gonna sell leech, thats fine too, but why not be nice when you arnt leeching someone, and party someone who asks that will be attacking along with ya? You already lvl faster than Speedy Gonzalez on freakin speed, so spread the exp wealth! the more high lvls there are would actually benefit you in the long run

He's only sharing his opinion, you know. People do usually share their opinion about things. People coming into a thread should be allowed to state their opinion about things. They shouldn't feel that their comment is criticized in such a way that they feel "Why did you even bother to post that?". I remember times when I got criticized for stating my opinion in a thread regarding wk and mage experience/hr. I remember times you got criticized for stating your opinion about the need of a Fire/Poison-mage in a HT-run. If I replied like this:



It would certainly not be nice, would it?

He explains that he doesn't think it makes sense that a character leeching gains more experience than himself, which I agree with. It's true that this is how it currently is, but why, just why should a person go on his bishop so that he can gain the most experience per hour on another character? (And why, just why, aren't magicians/shadowers/pallys needed as much as other classes in HT?)

Because it always ends in drama. Every thread always does. And every thread always brings out the same points, just spun in a different way. If people want to know people's opinions, use the search function to dig up old drama instead of bringing it back up again.

People are never going to come to an agreement and it's just pointless. It reminds me of that "Mother has 2 babies, one is a boy, what is the chance other is a boy" thread except that one has a "definite" answer.

I know it's been said before, but my only gripe is the classifications that generally garner respect.

For example, when I started playing the game, 4X was High lvled.
When I was 4x, 7X was High lvled.
When I was 7X, 9X was High lvled.
When I was 9X, 11X was High lvled.
When I hit 100, I was grats for finally being mid lvled...
And after I finally made it to 12X; well in to 4th job's release; 2 18X characters was high lvled.
And now:

I do advise my low lvl (120+) mage friends...

So I've been getting progressively weaker as time went on, but this just made it jump. Maybe it's because I'm an lolmarksman, but I don't get much respect outside of the people who know me anymore.


Asides from that, I know there's nothing I can do that will change people, and I complained back when 2x was released and never got a Zhelm since they lost their meaning so I've really done all I can as far as opinions go. Since I never posted in one of these threads as far as I can recall, I'm just putting in my word for it, but I agree with others on one thing:

Let's all just agree to disagree.

This thread is not about if partying a mage/bishop is concidered leeching or not. partying a mage/bishop for training is great, when you can find one to party with.

I understand the mages point on that since they can't hunt bosses they should be the best on something, and that's training.

If nexon implemented a solution to save the party system (Increasing monsters exp X% by each member in party, or something to stimulate people to party again), and ceased the meso selling business. I would give a crap about leechers. KMS has been expèrimenting with the first one so I have some hopes for that.

Just to get a little on topic, how come is leeching in KMS, JMS, and other versions?

Btw not to start a fight but, how come 75% of the ppl defending leech here are/have a Magician Char? xD

So I've been getting progressively weaker as time went on, but this just made it jump. Maybe it's because I'm an lolmarksman, but I don't get much respect outside of the people who know me anymore.

Just wait for the KMS skill updates

Btw not to start a fight but, how come 75% of the ppl defending leech here are/have a Magician Char? xD

Because if there was no leeching, the easiest way for them to make back there pot money from spamming gen/bliz/meto is gone.

Funny people keeps bringing topics like this up to cause a mass-riot or to stir up raging flames from the depths of people's hearts. >_____> K, that last part was corny, anyways...

I played my Night Lord from 1-120, with no leeching. Afterwards, I started leeching, using my 'own' Bishop. Yes, I had a 2ndary computer, in which I played on my Bishop, leeching my own Night Lord. If I'm the one playing my own Bishop, I don't see why it matters, period, except maybe my NL bumping up a rank or two on rankings...

As for buying leech, well, this game isn't like other MMOs, I think most people already established that. =(

Cons and Pros of leeching:

The good:
-The leecher levels faster

The bad:
-Crazy ass mages/Bishops takes over a lot of maps to leech others
-Leechers bumping up rankings
-People gets jealous

Because if there was no leeching, the easiest way for them to make back there pot money from spamming gen/bliz/meto is gone.

I think that they forget that they can stand in safe spots when spamming those skills, meaning that they aren't using pots for damage taken.
Where as other classes like warriors are taking a lot of damage so are using a lot of potions to heal.

The good:
-The leecher levels faster

The bad:
-Crazy ass mages/Bishops takes over a lot of maps to leech others
-Leechers bumping up rankings
-People gets jealous

That last one is a matter of opinion


And seriously... I think the only reason people make these threads is to cause drama. At least, that's the only thing that EVER results from them.

I'm stuck soloing for 5mil exp an hour at CG which is the best solo exp I've found...a Bishop I know gets around 30mill an hour at Skelys while leeching his lv 153 Corsair which gets 16mil an hour...there's no way I can get close to that kind of exp, yet a leeching char gets 3x the exp I get.

He said he going to get his Bishop to lv 200 (he's a crazy fast leveler) and in the process his Corsair will get to about lv 180, when he's reached lv 200...just from leeching.

Makes no sense that a leecher gets waaaay faster exp than someone who is actively training...

What a broken game Maple is.

It's called projection. Your own failures are projected upon others. Instead of admitting that you're simply leveling slower and incompetent, you're trying to say that other people shouldn't be leveling as quickly and are only able to because of leeching.

Really, it's just jealousy, even though you claim not.

No, I did not contradict myself. I am not making up a definition of the word play, I am saying what it is. If you consider leeching "playing", something must be wrong with you.

Oh so now in an effort to rationalize your contradiction, you're saying others are stupid for disagreeing with you?

And yes, leechers bother me because they ruin THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME: competition, ranks. That means nothing nowadays since people can pass me while being away from the game.

Everyone has different definition of the games. Good job, you listed one. Other people play for fun. Even more play to pass the time. If you're running alongside someone who's riding a bicycle, good for you, just ignore the cyclist who's probably going faster than you.

And yes, I hacked on another character more than a year ago because I was stupid and didn't think about the consequences. Since then, I have deleted that character and started a new one. People can't change? :f6:

Apparently not. It's unfortunate that many people in this thread can't accept change.

Leeching is nothing more then paying Nexon mesos to achieve the same effect as vac-hacking. The only reason Nexon allows leeching is because it's their way of -gaining- money from people who otherwise would be hacking.

Since when are you paying Nexon mesos? Why does Nexon even WANT mesos? What they want is your money, not their own in game currency, lol.

Also, leeching stimulates hacking. Not everyone wants to (or can) pay Nexon NX (so they can buy mesos from Nexon), and start vaccing (look at wolfspiders...) for mesos for paying for leech. If people wonder why there's still hacking in gMS, the answer is: leechers...

I don't get it. Why would someone hacking their ass off want to leech when hacking is faster, free, and allows them to sell mesos to meso-selling sites?

Also, people who leech, embrace the fact that it's "allowed" by Nexon, and try to get a better "in-game-status" then hackers, while in fact they're the same kind...

So if Nexon allows people to train legitly, they're "in fact" the same kind as hackers? That's too bad that your opinions are that way, don't try to make yourself sound like you're Nexon's public relations or something.

Sure you can do with your money what you want, but just don't claim you're "better" then a hacker when you leech or flaunt with your lvl / damage / skills...

Nobody's flaunting. And nobody cares. Only you do.

P.S. : With leeching I mean -MASS- leeching (lvl 30~160+)...

Oh, so now there's a leech rating? Really that's hilarious. You're saying that leeching is hacking, and then you define it as mass leeching. Then that means only mass hackers are hackers, people who only hacked a few levels aren't hackers? Your entire post is contradictory and aimed only at trolling.

Also, harrisonized, you should really lay off the metaphors. Some are good, but for the most part many just dont fully apply and then everyone criticizes you for it, instead of trying to actually understand your point.

The metaphors for the most part, make sense because they relate to real life situations. I've learned over time that people do not take internet matters seriously, only when the ideas are "extended" to real life matters do they begin to change their perspectives.

Anyway...one thing I do remember seeing that made me raise my eyebrows a little...Harrisonized declared someone's point BS because he had never seen the smegas saying, "B>LEECH!" Sorry, Harrisonized, but I don't really agree with you there--they are fairly common on Windia, though maybe not as common as the original poster of the statement would have you believe.

I have seen it and it doesn't happen that often. I see no reason for being upset at something that occurs only sparingly.

It's about personal achievement. I'm proud of my level. If a leecher can say the same, kudos to him/her...though why should it make other people upset?

This is my perspective as well.

Buying lvls with mesos is no different than buying z-helms with mesos. Anyone who belongs to a z-helm selling guild who is against selling & buying leach is a hypocrite. If stuff needs to be earned in the game not bought & sold then this applies to z-helms and HT pendents as well as experience. If you think selling z-helms & HT pendents is the only way you can make money then too bad, time to change your views. No one wants arch mages in their zak or HT parties so they make money by selling leach.

Human nature is naturally hypocritical. Just yesterday I went on a CWKPQ run and the squad leader wouldn't let me on the run until I said that I didn't care about split. I ran, fought (did around 500k exp partyless from Margana), and died for that group (when I was soloing Rellik and Hsalf, took out about 10% of the HP while the other bosses were being killed), and when I needed ressurect, the Bishop just ditched me. Really it's hilarious how far people go based on greed.

As far as I'm concerned there is more than one way to win the game, if you win by making money and then you spend money to get ranks (which is considered winning by most people) then it's the same result as spending time training to make the lvls as opposed to making money. If one method is faster than the other or more fun than the other then you should choose the one you like best. Since Nexon provides opportunities to contributors of real $$$ to shorten this time then it doesn't matter if it's shortened by 2x exp, gatcha, pets, stores, smeggas, or buying mesos from nexon.

You know, a while ago, I read an article about how someone was scrubbing bathrooms for spare money, due to family financial difficulties, and the woman he was scrubbing for apparently felt that because he was just doing janitorial work under the presumption that he was unable to find another "better" job and that he was stupid and unworthy of her respect. People are so full of prejudice.

Im fenced on leech and will probably always be. Some may think that partying an attack spammer while attacking yourself is still leeching, but thats completely stupid, since your attacking. I will admit two things. 1, ive had a friend who leeched me maybe 50%, not much, nothing really worth it. But i didnt pay for it, except maybe pots for him, which is fine by me since he gets a real use out of the pots. 2, Ive been and attacker, and being on dial up, died three twice running up to get HS/MW, so i humped the rope for a lil while, but decided to go back to attacking. And without the HS and MW, i was still getting better exp rates than humping that rope.

This is precisely why debates like this begin. Your conformity to people who assert their feelings that leech is unethical allows room for these to push you around. You don't need to "admit" anything because there is no crime with leeching.

If your gonna sell leech, thats fine too, but why not be nice when you arnt leeching someone, and party someone who asks that will be attacking along with ya? You already lvl faster than Speedy Gonzalez on freakin speed, so spread the exp wealth! the more high lvls there are would actually benefit you in the long run

Believe it or not, most people do. It's just a self-serving bias effect that magnifies scenarios that people look for. Maybe they cc once. Ok, there's someone training. CC again, there's someone training. CC again. Omg someone's leeching. Suddenly everyone on every channel appears like they're leeching someone even though they're not.

A real life example of this: Draw a square on a white piece of paper. Ask someone what they see. Most of the time, people will tell you that they see a square. Most of the time, they will not tell you that they see a piece of paper with a square drawn on it.

Because it always ends in drama. Every thread always does. And every thread always brings out the same points, just spun in a different way. If people want to know people's opinions, use the search function to dig up old drama instead of bringing it back up again.

I agree with this statement. I mentioned it before on the previous pages, but apparently the mods think this discussion should continue, so let us continue.

People are never going to come to an agreement and it's just pointless.

People don't come to an agreement because certain people do not bother reading or they just use ad hominems to avoid the situations in question.

It reminds me of that "Mother has 2 babies, one is a boy, what is the chance other is a boy" thread except that one has a "definite" answer.

I don't see the analogy.

Btw not to start a fight but, how come 75% of the ppl defending leech here are/have a Magician Char? xD

Because the people who are nonmages are just jealous or they refuse to state their opinions against the popular belief. Conformity is really a deteriorating function of humanity. Also, I call BS on all people who are capable of selling Bigfoot leech yet still call mages leeching people "bad".

The bad:
-Crazy ass mages/Bishops takes over a lot of maps to leech others
-Leechers bumping up rankings
-People gets jealous

"Crazy ass" mages and bishops will take over the maps regardless of whether the leecher is present or not. Leechers bumping up the rankings is not "bad", because nobody looks at the rankings anyways unless they're checking to see if someone is legitimate (nonhacker) to determine whether or not to bring them on boss runs.

People getting jealous is a phenomenon that just can't be avoided.

The last part is not an opinion, don't deny it. A lot of people would 'love' to sit on their lazy ass, watch TV or some movie, while some other person leeches their ass off (especially for free). I'm quite positive a lot of people are annoyed, irked, or jealous by it, whether they choose to admit or not. It's human to be jealous of someone or something that is getting things easier than what you managed to do previously.

@Harrison: Your response to my statement is very flawed. Without leechers, there would be less mages/Bishops rampaging on maps. Why? Simple. AMs/Bishops now wants to guard their maps even more now, so make sure that their maps are always 'safe', perse. That way, no one can come in their map, etc etc etc. Also, why do more people make Bishops? I'm sure quite an amount of them are doing it to leech people and receive monetary gain. Basically, more leechers leads to more Bishops/Arch Mages wanting to guard maps, thus their presence in maps are increased, drastically.

Without leechers, there would be less mages/Bishops rampaging on maps. Why? Simple. AMs/Bishops now wants to guard their maps even more now, so make sure that their maps are always 'safe', perse. That way, no one can come in their map, etc etc etc.

So normally, a AM/Bishop would just allow someone to come in and KS their map? The right to and protection of property isn't just a Mage thing.

Also, why do more people make Bishops? I'm sure quite an amount of them are doing it to leech people and receive monetary gain.

I could say this statement is flawed. Most people make Bishops because they level up faster, have HS, use a lower amount of pots, and the highest training maps (skeles) are holy weak. They're also accepted to parties more often than the other classes.

Basically, more leechers leads to more Bishops/Arch Mages wanting to guard maps, thus their presence in maps are increased, drastically.

You have no evidence that one causes the other. Even if they're correlated, you cannot simply say that one causes the other, because maybe it could be the other way around. Their presence in the maps are increased, and thus there are less maps to go around, so losing a map may mean difficulty finding another one. Your argument revolves around people defending maps, which is actually a natural phenomenon. People defended their maps before fourth job with the same fierceness that they defend their maps today. Thus you can definitely conclude that it's not the leechers that are causing it, which means your post is BS.