Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased

Fine maybe, I just wanted to showcase other regions are doing well, and the game overall is doing very well, which lead to the GMS discussion although it was gonna go there sooner or later .

No one asked how well the other MapleStory versions are doing. You cannot be so oblivious that you think this has ever been about Maple as a whole. First, this is, first and foremost, by user base, a GMS forum, we didn't have KMS extractions here because of our rich KMS playing user base, it's always been about prepping for the future in GMS. Second, Pikamemnon, who literally always makes these threads, doesn't play the other Maple versions, and he always talks about GMS. It's perfectly valid under this context to talk about GMS solely under "MapleStory", as well as being wildly inappropriate to assume that it refers to any other Maple version. Frankly, it's irrelevant to bring up the other versions of Maple in this discussion. Hell, the way it looks in your first post, you only brought up KMS to begin with just to state how amazing the view is from your ivory tower.

And are you seriously surprised that GMS doesn't take to the content we're provided as well as KMS does? Not only that, you bring up the success of the other Asian markets as evidence that Maple is doing well? Do you really think the players in the other Asian countries are so wildly different from the Koreans as the Western market is such that the success of Maple there would be any indication of how successful Maple should be in the West? I'm pretty sure we already had this conversation last year. Let's take, for example, the forty something classes we have. I, personally, was pretty happy with all the classes up until, well I'm still pretty happy, but most people got tired of the "Let's release new classes every 6 months" thing pretty early on in GMS, tired of the new link skills that they had to get, tired of the character cards, level up events. On the other side, I believe I heard KMS was still pretty into getting new classes for quite a while after that. Getting more stuff from KMS isn't going to automatically fix the problems people have with GMS. And by the way, as far as it appears, the progression in KMS is only marginally better, unless you think having the option of training in dark, evil forest for about forty levels instead of just having robot junkyard wasteland is a huge improvement. Scrapyard and the Corrupted World Tree are just about the laziest excuses for content I have ever seen and are so obviously just designed so that people would stop complaining about having nothing aimed at 210 to 250.

By your logic, Microsoft's Xbox does really well in the US and it does pretty well in Europe too, so as a whole it does really well. It doesn't matter that it doesn't sell super well in Japan, I mean there must be something wrong with them right? Like, what's wrong with Japan, how dare they not like the Xbox as much as the people in its home country of America do? It's like the pineappleing second coming of Jesus Christ, how dare they not like it?

No one asked how well the other MapleStory versions are doing. You cannot be so oblivious that you think this has ever been about Maple as a whole. First, this is, first and foremost, by user base, a GMS forum, we didn't have KMS extractions here because of our rich KMS playing user base, it's always been about prepping for the future in GMS. Second, Pikamemnon, who literally always makes these threads, doesn't play the other Maple versions, and he always talks about GMS. It's perfectly valid under this context to talk about GMS solely under "MapleStory", as well as being wildly inappropriate to assume that it refers to any other Maple version. Frankly, it's irrelevant to bring up the other versions of Maple, because, up until you brought it up, no one was talking about it.

And are you seriously surprised that GMS doesn't take to the content we're provided as well as KMS does? Not only that, you bring up the success of the other Asian markets as evidence that Maple is doing well? Do you really think the players in the other Asian countries are as wildly different from the Koreans as the Western market is such that the success of Maple there would be any indication of how successful Maple should be in the West? I'm pretty sure we already had this conversation last year. Let's take, for example, the forty something classes we have. I, personally, was pretty happy with all the classes up until, well I'm still pretty happy, but most people got tired of the "Let's release new classes every 6 months" thing pretty early on in GMS, tired of the new link skills that they had to get, tired of the character cards, level up events. On the other side, I believe I heard KMS was still pretty into getting new classes for quite a while after that. Getting more stuff from KMS isn't going to automatically fix the problems people have with GMS. And by the way, as far as it appears, the progression in KMS is only marginally better, unless you think having the option of training in dark, evil forest for about forty levels instead of just having robot junkyard wasteland is a huge improvement. Scrapyard and the Corrupted World Tree are just about the laziest excuses for content I have ever seen and are so obviously just designed so that people would stop complaining about having nothing aimed at 210 to 250.

By your logic, Microsoft's Xbox does really well in the US and it does pretty well in Europe too, so as a whole it does really well. It doesn't matter that it doesn't sell super well in Japan, I mean there must be something wrong with them right? Like, what's wrong with Japan, how dare they not like the Xbox as much as the people in its home country of America do? It's like the pineappleing second coming of Jesus Christ, how dare they not like it?

Here's something you must already realize, No one cares if GMS dies, No one in Nexon KR or anywhere is gonna be that sad about it, hint their management already says all, which is why I understand Khaini's frustration with this damn service, Just face it, making these threads is useless to begin with it won't change anything, this is as far as discussion about it can go, nearly all of you who posted in this thread have quit, and are bickering about useless non sense, [MENTION=13180]Gymleaders[/MENTION]; summarized this very well, you (not you specifically) do not know what's going on within the community.

Before I posted anything what pineappleing discussion was there, I bring up a points of contrast which no one starts talking about, ever until I post in these threads with my damn "Game's doing well shame on you guys too bad".

I am not surprised, where have I been ever shocked or surprise, I criticize them for that, many times in fact I had in the past, Yes I'll take their success as an example, do you know why? Because it's an objective view of what's going on, It has numbers it has methods that allow us to reflect on the game is doing, unlike bickering about certain aspects which won't change.

No where did I claim they are that different, what matters is the success of Maple as a whole, and it's doing well, don't you think that through this success something could leak onto GMS, even GMS isn't THAT bad, yeah it's sucky but boo hoo.

It is still content, busywork, that's what MMORPGs are to begin with, a distraction, not everyone gets tired with it, you haven't actually (in regards to link skills), do you think Korean's didn't? they did, it slowed down.

Beforehand we had no options, we had no way to train, just like in those days you were stuck in a water based ocean map for who knows how many levels or a dark background with clocks, yet I see people with nostalgia towards that and no care towards this despite being the same thing, Nexon is pumping out content and more areas, they confirmed it, what the hell do you expect them to do? Once again, it takes months to develop crap that could end within 15 minutes, Look at WoW.

They are adding more pomegranate, more ways to progress, what not, what's so hard to understand? People love toading their items, or making money off of it, it is not available in gms, why wouldn't pomegranate get stale when all of your high end items are staple items with 15 stars maximum go blame Nexon AM and KR.

Rushed? Those maps definitely weren't rushed and they allow you to grind in different areas with different ways without adding power creep to the game and making one map godly, they added WOLF DEN, the pineappleing hunters and random mini games to add variety, I am asking you what more does one need? Maybe MMORPGs aren't as good as they were?? THERE IS competition, Other genres exist, maplestory as an MMORPG ISN'T as bad as it used to be (objectively, once again look at all the additions) now.

No you're the one applying this logic, not me, because the bigger picture is, It is doing well, and I've already said it's ok to think of maple as stale, people are people, go read what I've said, why are you trying to reflect this onto my words? Yeah it could be interpreted as that, Nowhere did I complain about the (ex) GMS players for not liking it, I've explained logically reasons why I think there's a bleed, there are better things to do, demagoguery doesn't help.

Just like I've said, GMS just doesn't matter, how dare they not like the game damn while everyone else enjoys, no, no1cares in KR as long as it's #2 on KR popularity, these are horrible business practices which I DO NOT endorse but this is what's going on with Nexon KR, this is what they think.

Why is no one refuting any of my objective points such as content, socializing, market share in the world, freeing the game from Pay2Win aspects? Because those are true, those are things which are going on, right now, Nexon is developing even more pineappleing areas.

Is the game sick, not as much as it used to, that's the honest truth, and if KR would act kinder towards america it could be better, just like in the KR market, In this regard you're being stuck up, Korea has a huge different in itemization apporach and you're all just ignoring it when it could help, could be, because look no matter how you all said, it is a "different market" with different competition, Nexon is a korean company in US turf, something which failed for many other games, [MENTION=5798]Kobe[/MENTION]; Latale Boi.

You can't save the game regardless, is what you all are thinking honestly, I do not like that, there are things which could help manifest it's potential just like in the eastern market and it just doesn't happen and despite being suppressed it is still a good niche game that's fun, how about all of you try to play it once more or just face this belief and move onwards I think pikamemnon actually did despite his stupid threads.

Note: I am sorry if I sound angry but quite honestly I lost composure because many people here just sound selfish in regards to GMS, which is still making tons of people happy and you're just ignoring it, and I understand why that is, but it is not the most important market place :/ as clearly shown by KR
And honestly I am done as none of you listen to how it could be improved with the content that isn't being sent, thinking the game in its core is just catered towards another market completely despite having no proof of this because GMS (The Game DID change after adding pot scrolls and bb, and it doesn't contribute to this either) doesn't have 25 stars, flames, proper toad, scubes, different exp values, less op pomegranate like 8x exp rate, whatever clearly the two versions aren't so different thanks to these and more, just keep thinking that the eastern market is so different that it prevents the game to be better and if it doesn't cater to you, you are already not playing to begin with, are you not and not a single point I bring up will change this.

This discussion isn't fun to me anymore and I feel saturated see you in the next yearly thread regarding this though.

And before someone will BS on how I contradict myself when I keep talking about the how different/indifferent they are, I'll clarify, Gameplay wise all versions play the same, could this sustain the bleed? Surely but who knows-One thing is clear it can get boring and everyone agrees, Progression&Pacing&management are vastly different though.

Here's something you must already realize, No one cares if GMS dies, No one in Nexon KR or anywhere is gonna be that sad about it, hint their management already says all, which is why I understand Khaini's frustration with this damn service, Just face it, making these threads is useless to begin with it won't change anything, this is as far as discussion about it can go, nearly all of you who posted in this thread have quit, and are bickering about useless non sense, Gymleaders; summarized this very well, you (not you specifically) do not know what's going on within the community.

No one cares? Do you really think any of us would continue talking about this, basically every year if none of us cared what happened to GMS? There's a very strong difference between complaining about something that you genuinely love that you see is declining versus just complaining for the heck of it. Do you think people would put so much time and effort into trying to positively change something that they actively hate?

Before I posted anything what pineappleing discussion was there, I bring up a points of contrast which no one starts talking about, ever until I post in these threads with my damn "Game's doing well shame on you guys too bad".

No one talks about it because it's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, the status of other versions has nothing to do with the health of GMS, do you think you're providing valuable insight by talking about how great things are in other versions? How is it at all helping this discussion?

I am not surprised, where have I been ever shocked or surprise, I criticize them for that, many times in fact I had in the past, Yes I'll take their success as an example, do you know why? Because it's an objective view of what's going on, It has numbers it has methods that allow us to reflect on the game is doing, unlike bickering about certain aspects which won't change.

How does this view help things in GMS? Why would you think that the success of one product in one market has any effect on how well that same product would do in a different market? It's an objective view of how things would be in certain circumstances, like say, if they replaced the entire GMS user base with Koreans, and it does just about as much as the "bickering about certain aspects which won't change" that you're complaining about, especially since changing the player base is much more difficult that changing aspects of the game. It's like making a square peg and shoving into a round hole.

No where did I claim they are that different, what matters is the success of Maple as a whole, and it's doing well, don't you think that through this success something could leak onto GMS, even GMS isn't THAT bad, yeah it's sucky but boo hoo.

How exactly do you expect the success to leak into GMS? Even if it were, "the most popular MMO in Korea" doesn't make for a huge selling point in America, except for niche markets that you probably already had to begin with. You're not going to get many new players that way.

It is still content, busywork, that's what MMORPGs are to begin with, a distraction, not everyone gets tired with it, you haven't actually (in regards to link skills), do you think Korean's didn't? they did, it slowed down.

Beforehand we had no options, we had no way to train, just like in those days you were stuck in a water based ocean map for who knows how many levels or a dark background with clocks, yet I see people with nostalgia towards that and no care towards this despite being the same thing, Nexon is pumping out content and more areas, they confirmed it, what the hell do you expect them to do? Once again, it takes months to develop crap that could end within 15 minutes, Look at WoW.

They are adding more pomegranate, more ways to progress, what not, what's so hard to understand? People love toading their items, or making money off of it, it is not available in gms, why wouldn't pomegranate get stale when all of your high end items are staple items with 15 stars maximum go blame Nexon AM and KR.

Rushed? Those maps definitely weren't rushed and they allow you to grind in different areas with different ways without adding power creep to the game and making one map godly, they added WOLF DEN, the pineappleing hunters and random mini games to add variety, I am asking you what more does one need? Maybe MMORPGs aren't as good as they were?? THERE IS competition, Other genres exist, maplestory as an MMORPG ISN'T as bad as it used to be (objectively, once again look at all the additions) now.

I'm the first person on Southperry who would admit to Nexon making positive changes, but that doesn't mean I'm not also going to criticize them. This isn't a free service they're providing me out of the goodness of their hearts, this is a service that they make with the expectation people will pay. "Not bad at is used to be" is never a good standard to hold yourself to, and it sure as hell not a good standard to judge someone on.

Do you remember the time period where they spent several patches adding additional lower leveled areas to the game, i.e. Mushroom Kingdom, Kerning Square, on top of other content that, while pomegranatety, were available for that level range instead of adding basically anything past 150? Don't you think it might've been better to do something about the level range where there was no content instead of adding more to where it already existed? Places like Scarpyard and Corrupted World Tree (which, by the way, I never said were rushed, I said they were designed just to stop people from complaining), could've been implemented years ago, the fact they exist now is not any great accomplishment. It's just as bad as Aqua Road back in the day.

People love toading their items, or making money off of it, it is not available in gms

And this. I just need to point out how ignorant you are of how things are in GMS. We've had Toad's Hammer for the last 7 months. We've also had the Bounty Bros special training maps for a few months now as well. We already have these things, when does the improvement that comes with all these nice progression things, as you said, start? What more do I need? Hell, I think, Mushroom Kingdom, even as it is now (more a comment on its story than anything else), theme dungeons in general, in fact, are better than the pomegranatety content provided by, "here's some training maps, go nuts." I prefer quest driven content than just places I can grind. I think I grew out of that after spending so long grinding characters to level 200 in the same damn places.

No you're the one applying this logic, not me, because the bigger picture is, It is doing well, and I've already said it's ok to think of maple as stale, people are people, go read what I've said, why are you trying to reflect this onto my words? Yeah it could be interpreted as that, Nowhere did I complain about the (ex) GMS players for not liking it, I've explained logically reasons why I think there's a bleed, there are better things to do, demagoguery doesn't help.

Just like I've said, GMS just doesn't matter, how dare they not like the game damn while everyone else enjoys, no, no1cares in KR as long as it's #2 on KR popularity, these are horrible business practices which I DO NOT endorse but this is what's going on with Nexon KR, this is what they think.

Why is no one refuting any of my objective points such as content, socializing, market share in the world, freeing the game from Pay2Win aspects? Because those are true, those are things which are going on, right now, Nexon is developing even more pineappleing areas.

Is the game sick, not as much as it used to, that's the honest truth, and if KR would act kinder towards america it could be better, just like in the KR market, In this regard you're being stuck up, Korea has a huge different in itemization apporach and you're all just ignoring it when it could help, could be, because look no matter how you all said, it is a "different market" with different competition, Nexon is a korean company in US turf, something which failed for many other games, Kobe; Latale Boi.

Duh, One of the major problems is they're not working on these things at a satisfactory rate. Maybe it'll get better in a few generations of players, after they've finally cut away all the bad, but the players who have persisted since the beginning have much less tolerance for Nexon's antics. Do you not see how little faith we had in the Maple Leaf Council? Small steps are not enough to win players back, and they can wait it out, get new players, but the longer they take, the more disappointed the players who are already disappointed will get, the more players who are disappointed will become disappointed, and the more anti-Nexon sentiment will spread, and then there won't be people who are willing to try Maple anymore. I get the sense that Nexon NA have this feeling that we are being unjustly harsh towards them, that we should be giving them more credit for their little changes, which is why I try to acknowledge that here in the sea of negativity that is Southperry, and that the game is dying because we're the ones telling our friends how awful Maple is and how they shouldn't play and they should quit. I feel for them, but the part of me that does is dying just as much. We don't need small steps, we need sweeping changes.

You can't save the game regardless, is what you all are thinking honestly, I do not like that, there are things which could help manifest it's potential just like in the eastern market and it just doesn't happen and despite being suppressed it is still a good niche game that's fun, how about all of you try to play it once more or just face this belief and move onwards I think pikamemnon actually did despite his stupid threads.

Note: I am sorry if I sound angry but quite honestly I lost composure because many people here just sound selfish in regards to GMS, which is still making tons of people happy and you're just ignoring it, and I understand why that is, but it is not the most important market place :/ as clearly shown by KR
And honestly I am done as none of you listen to how it could be improved with the content that isn't being sent, thinking the game in its core is just catered towards another market completely despite having no proof of this because GMS (The Game DID change after adding pot scrolls and bb, and it doesn't contribute to this either) doesn't have 25 stars, flames, proper toad, scubes, different exp values, less op pomegranate like 8x exp rate, whatever clearly the two versions aren't so different thanks to these and more, just keep thinking that the eastern market is so different that it prevents the game to be better and if it doesn't cater to you, you are already not playing to begin with, are you not and not a single point I bring up will change this.

This discussion isn't fun to me anymore and I feel saturated see you in the next yearly thread regarding this though.

You would be wrong to think this, at least, that all of us feel this way. As I alluded to in the first response, we wouldn't care so much if we didn't, one, love Maple, and two, think it couldn't be saved.

To be frank, the stuff we don't have would be nice, but those don't fix the major issues people have with the game in the first place, so I really doubt they'll have as much of a game saving effect as you might think.

1. Extra stars and flames would probably definitely help, at least with improving damage for players who don't have much of it.
2. We actually do have Toad's Hammer, fully.
3. Occult cubes, I don't know. It's difficult to say, it's quite easy to get crafted cubes in GMS, and those are pretty much always better than occult cubes, even after they removed deranking, I wouldn't use occult cubes, like are they just rigged to be insanely bad, but now you can get easily get occult cubes in much greater quantities in KMS, which somewhat makes up for it. I don't know, this is difficult to say. Would I trade crafted cube drops, and the upped material drops for having occult cubes at all? I don't think so.
4. I'm not sure what you mean by different exp values, most monsters are the same across both versions, with most of the exclusive monsters also conforming to standard HP:EXP ratios.
5. It might help if we didn't have absurdly high EXP multipliers to enjoy more of the content, but to be honest, it's less stopping to smell the roses and more like, smelling tulips or something (in a system where tulips are valued less than roses, but they're still a nice flower, so they've got that going for them). I've already played through like everything a million times across a million characters. Not adding all the characters they did might've helped with the enjoyment of additional content as well.

No one cares? Do you really think any of us would continue talking about this, basically every year if none of us cared what happened to GMS? There's a very strong difference between complaining about something that you genuinely love that you see is declining versus just complaining for the heck of it. Do you think people would put so much time and effort into trying to positively change something that they actively hate

No one talks about it because it's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, the status of other versions has nothing to do with the health of GMS, do you think you're providing valuable insight by talking about how great things are in other versions? How is it at all helping this discussion?


How does this view help things in GMS? Why would you think that the success of one product in one market has any effect on how well that same product would do in a different market? It's an objective view of how things would be in certain circumstances, like say, if they replaced the entire GMS user base with Koreans, and it does just about as much as the "bickering about certain aspects which won't change" that you're complaining about, especially since changing the player base is much more difficult that changing aspects of the game. It's like making a square peg and shoving into a round hole.


How exactly do you expect the success to leak into GMS? Even if it were, "the most popular MMO in Korea" doesn't make for a huge selling point in America, except for niche markets that you probably already had to begin with. You're not going to get many new players that way.


I'm the first person on Southperry who would admit to Nexon making positive changes, but that doesn't mean I'm not also going to criticize them. This isn't a free service they're providing me out of the goodness of their hearts, this is a service that they make with the expectation people will pay. "Not bad at is used to be" is never a good standard to hold yourself to, and it sure as hell not a good standard to judge someone on.

Do you remember the time period where they spent several patches adding additional lower leveled areas to the game, i.e. Mushroom Kingdom, Kerning Square, on top of other content that, while pomegranatety, were available for that level range instead of adding basically anything past 150? Don't you think it might've been better to do something about the level range where there was no content instead of adding more to where it already existed? Places like Scarpyard and Corrupted World Tree (which, by the way, I never said were rushed, I said they were designed just to stop people from complaining), could've been implemented years ago, the fact they exist now is not any great accomplishment. It's just as bad as Aqua Road back in the day.


And this. I just need to point out how ignorant you are of how things are in GMS. We've had Toad's Hammer for the last 7 months. We've also had the Bounty Bros special training maps for a few months now as well. We already have these things, when does the improvement that comes with all these nice progression things, as you said, start? What more do I need? Hell, I think, Mushroom Kingdom, even as it is now (more a comment on its story than anything else), theme dungeons in general, in fact, are better than the pomegranatety content provided by, "here's some training maps, go nuts." I prefer quest driven content than just places I can grind. I think I grew out of that after spending so long grinding characters to level 200 in the same damn places.

You would be wrong to think this, at least, that all of us feel this way. As I alluded to in the first response, we wouldn't care so much if we didn't, one, love Maple, and two, think it couldn't be saved.

No one here was saying anything based or anything remotely interesting, other users added insight upon my insight, so what are you trying to get at?

Success=means more money flowing around the company in general, which leads to newer content and additions, which can translate into GMS and being a better game, that's what I am getting at, not as a poster boy for making the game look good, ok keep talking about how GMS is just "dying" but the game is going onwards in all markets if it floats your boat as I've said it doesn't matter as long as it's #2 or #3 in the charts and makes money on piles of money and adds more content even in this not so non-corrupt world or else investors wouldn't bother and same goes for the playerbase.

No, the toad hammer in KMS is a bit different, it's MUCH more useful with scubes and 15+ stars, so I am not ignorant, try to think how they combine for a moment, I'm also criticizing them actively, It is a good game I already said it, I am using not as bad as it used to be in order to attract certain people in a bubble, Bounty hunters were just given as an example to how nexon adds other stuff, stop for a moment and read between the lines? Really. *Sorry for using the word "available" but it is just not a viable thing in gms, hope you get what I mean that was a mistake on my part.

Also they added extra content in the world tree, like dailies although it's meh it's better than nothing, same goes for heaven but I'll assume you knew that.

Stop thinking I don't know pomegranate, It's getting annoying and boring at this point.

I didn't say the community doesn't care although at the end I did say some people are being really stuck up about it, I implied that Nexon won't lose much profit pretty much throughout my post as many here are legit considering the game as dead and loss on profit, I've never said that anyone hates it, big difference there, but some of this are just plain useless comments which add nothing of value to the table and quite frankly don't help the game either.

I can agree with you on many things but you must realize some people just don't understand that is ironic how about they're talking that the game is dying whilst it is on growing in Korea, the market that truly matters for the game in the first place, they don't get that Nexon KR has too much influence on Nexon America and don't realize that Nexon KR does want the same success as in Korea but don't manage to get it and then they dismiss how Korea does things differently there, and aren't vocal about it enough, and how it doesn't apply to the "Western" market, although that's not everyone, you remember the reaction to Flames, don't you?
How many people would even care about actual s,cubes, viable toading, flames, extra stars etc, If someone who didn't play KMS would be here, and would showcase how successful it is there and how it helped MS? You're claiming that I am so Ignorant about GMS while you don't play KMS (I know you have an account but it doesn't count), that sort of comment is what's not helping anything.

I do genuinely believe people are exaggerating about the Player-base though, Koreans aren't no life grinders 24/7, this is just stupid, everyone plays the game more or less the same, and everyone can enjoy it especially now and it could be amazing if GMS could fix its issues and get on the ground like KMS, I am not sure why this is though, why people insist that the mindsets are so different between the east and the west to the point where this game which everyone enjoyed in the past and many still do enjoy exists, everyone does grind and so on, the only viable issue is the management not the playerbase which prevents adding actual good stuff onto the game, if nexon KR thought so badly of GMS being played by koreans there wouldn't be so many deficiencies.

I feel like whenever people say that the game needs big sweeps, they don't get that, it's frankly impossible and a change is better than no change, it does slow down the bleeding of players, I am not asking of anyone to be thankful but realize that it is just impossible with how things are heading and the KRs won't budge.

By exp values I mean that HoH was the prime example for that, Retarded EXP and different spawn layout compared to KMS where that map was fodder, I know things normalized a bit but meh, or RnJ.

Comments like below don't help either, just keep thinking I don't pomegranate and you know all jesus, just ignore everything I wrote after and before whatever lmao, good point on Douyu but still, There's a small and reserved community in Twitch between the English speakers, but Taiwanese? ON TWITCH? with a game that's so small on Twitch due to lack of exposure?? are you kidding my ass, it is a decent metric do you know why? Exactly because of reasons above, learn something about Taiwanese and Chinese streamers and more stream sites and come back, also ignore my second example of 100+ viewers at 1 AM@Taiwan because it sure helps disprove my statement.
[MENTION=6211]Malthe[/MENTION]; Do you know how many views KMS gets on afreecatv for example? I am not mad at you, but you're right MS isn't that interesting to watch, it has lack of exposure on twitch, and smaller streams stream it, so it's decent at best especially on a western oriented site, I do not know why you disregard this fact, China&Taiwan&Korea have much larger services (in terms of their population) than Twitch that get better MS views, I understand what you're trying to say but it is false, there are more factors than view numbers, such as who streams, when, and who watches they all play a role, would you dare to tell me why would you intentional disregard factors that affect viewership directly?

Are you serious? We're talking about Taiwanese streams on Twitch during 3 PM in Taiwan, when people are working and are at school, need I remind you how Taiwan is similar to Japan and Korea and people get out late.
Today I've seen over (once again Taiwanese) 100 People watching across a few streams during non peak hours, when it's 1 AM in Taiwan once again it's on Twitch, not Youku or other sites which are oriented for mainland/taiwanese/chinese gamers.
It's easy to see 200,200,10~40 streamers at the same time, streams occasionally on twitch too, also go on Youku, go on Afreecatv, Seriously but yes let's stick to the Taiwanese twitch example and ignore all else.

You know i originally wrote up a big long piece of text, but i'll just sum it up like this: You clearly don't understand twitch as a platform nor do you seem to have any real grasp of what good or bad numbers (regardless of nationality, time or any other aspect) is on twitch. 60 viewers over 5 streams is a pathetic number, it might be fine for small casual streamers, but it does in no way reflect a healthy or thriving game or community, it might at best reflect a small and loyal community. Who knows, this might just be because maplestory isn't a game people want to watch streamed to begin with, i'm not arguing for what state maplestory is in, i'm just saying that the stream numbers you have brought up do in no way help your case or help argue for maplestory doing well.

Also plenty of chinese streaming sites can not be trusted with regards to viewership numbers, Douyu for example is notorious for heavily inflating its viewership numbers.

Edit: pomegranateting on my post doesn't change the fact that it's true, you know,
As i said i'm not even arguing for or against the state of maple as i don't care, i'm just pointing out you used a metric that makes no sense to support your case.

No one here was saying anything based or anything remotely interesting, other users added insight upon my insight, so what are you trying to get at?

Mostly that, from what I've read of the thread, it seemed like it was just arguing.

Success=means more money flowing around the company in general, which leads to newer content and additions, which can translate into GMS and being a better game, that's what I am getting at, not as a poster boy for making the game look good, ok keep talking about how GMS is just "dying" but the game is going onwards in all markets if it floats your boat as I've said it doesn't matter as long as it's #2 or #3 in the charts and makes money on piles of money and adds more content.

No, the toad hammer in KMS is a bit different, it's much more useful with scubes and 15+ stars, so I am not ignorant, try to think how they combine for a moment

This isn't actually a function of the hammer itself, and people already make full use of it to the best they can (for example, hunting for % stat epic gears and transferring that, it's not like occult cubes are really going to help all that much, it's even a breeze with the always epic senior equips from Monster Park, for now, you know, and saving money on future stars), it would definitely be even better with more stars, though.

I'm also criticizing them actively, It is a good game I already said it, I am using not as bad as it used to be in order to attract certain people in a bubble, Bounty hunters were just given as an example to how nexon adds other stuff, stop for a moment and read between the lines? Really.

Also they added extra content in the world tree, like dailies although it's meh it's better than nothing, same goes for heaven but I'll assume you knew that.

Stop thinking I don't know pomegranate, It's getting annoying and boring at this point.

There you go again with "better than nothing", it's not enough for us at this point. I had a long discussion with [MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; years ago where I pointed out how much the game had improved recently (as of then), and they were even less marginal increases than what we have now. The way I see it, they should be aiming to win players back, maybe not to play Maple again, but just to improve their perspective of Maple, and then those players can bring others (or at least, not drive them away, I agree with Nexon in that there is this toxic environment where people are being driven away, but so far their solution is just to tell people to stop being so negative and throwing them a bone every few months), otherwise they end up with this awful reputation where they don't care about their players, and it's not effective to do that with these marginal changes (at least, not for the ones here). An example I guess, would be the auction house. Instead of just giving us the Auction House, they gave us owls for mesos. It was this marginal change that people celebrated, but eventually, okay, this is really just speculation, people realized that it is in fact so pomegranate compared to having an auction house (where you can free buy and sell, and search, for items).

Dailies are a good idea. I really enjoyed Shanghai, at least compared to the Masteria blockbuster it was released with. On a grander scale, it'd be an area to be proud of. There was a rudimentary relationship system where you could build trust between yourself and the town via the main quest line, daily missions that depended on this trust, a coin shop where you could spend the spoils of your daily missions on equips, epic pots, spell traces, stuff like that, you could make clothes that were essentially like the clothes you could get in FriendStory, transformation potions. I stayed in Shanghai for weeks, it was just that good to me. There were also decent monsters to train on for the 140~150 range. It was interesting, I was much more invested in the story of Shanghai than I was to the Masteria blockbuster (which pales in comparison to Black Heaven and Heroes of Maple, so this isn't a negative for blockbusters). If it were bigger in scale, maybe add a fun PQ, it'd easily be the best town in Maple. Content like that is what they should be developing not "here's a bunch of training maps, here's some dailies" (I stress, in my opinion, there are definitely people who do like just having the grindy maps, just not me, anymore). Considering their respective blockbusters with them makes the areas quite a lot better, but the blockbusters are actually so isolated, it's not as satisfying as actually going through Shanghai.

I greatly apologize about assuming you don't know stuff.

Comments like below don't help either, just keep thinking I don't pomegranate and you know all jesus, just ignore everything I wrote after and before whatever lmao, good point on Douyu but still, There's a small and reserved community in Twitch between the English speakers, but Taiwanese? ON TWITCH? with a game that's so small on Twitch due to lack of exposure?? are you kidding my ass, it is a decent metric do you know why? Exactly because of reasons above, learn something about Taiwanese and Chinese streamers and more stream sites and come back, also ignore my second example of 100+ viewers at 1 AM@Taiwan because it sure helps disprove my statement.
Malthe; Do you know how many views KMS gets on afreecatv for example? I am not mad at you, but you're right MS isn't that interesting to watch, it has lack of exposure on twitch, and smaller streams stream it, so it's decent at best especially on a western oriented site, I do not know why you disregard this fact, China&Taiwan&Korea have much larger services (in terms of their population) than Twitch that get better MS views.

You know it doesn't matter how weird you think it is that there's a small community of taiwanese players streaming and getting a stable set of viewers. But them getting their small and supposedly stable set of viewers does not at all speak for the game being active or doing well, as i said, at best it indicates a loyal and stable following, not a big one. You could never use a viewership that small to imply that there's a huge big thriving community and a game that does well.

Also maplestory lack of viewers is most definitely not from lack of exposure, infact maplestory is a fairly well known MMORPG even in the west, so if people cared to watch then they would have. So no, i'm not 'kidding your ass'. Your metric is pomegranate and you clearly know jackshit about streaming.
I mean runescape at times rivals world of warcraft in viewership on twitch, are we going to begin arguing that runescape is just as thriving and doing just as well as world of warcraft? Yeah i didn't think so. And i do not need to learn more about chinese or taiwanese streamers.

I mean, i have to ask, are you stupid? I don't think i could've been more clear with regards to not caring about how maplestory is doing. I was merely pointing out that the way you use twitch viewership to support your case shows that you don't know anything about twitch as a platform. I don't need to understand or know something about taiwanese or chinese or even korean streaming to make that claim. Because those things are entirely unrelated to what i was arguing to begin with. Which is what 60 viewers over 5 streams doesn't ever in any way imply anything for any game ever. Not that it's doing poorly and most definitely not that it's doing well.

And if you think 'exposure' is the reason why people don't watch maplestory on twitch then you're fairly delusional.

Mostly that, from what I've read of the thread, that was less insightful conversation relevant to the point of this topic (which, honestly, I don't think there really is that much), and more just people calling you out on your beliefs (which, much like this thread, is just a rehash of a conversation we already had). I don't think you really added much, except an argument.

Well you could view it as such.

This isn't actually a function of the hammer itself, and people already make full use of it to the best they can (for example, hunting for % stat epic gears and transferring that, it's not like occult cubes are really going to help all that much, it's even a breeze with the always epic senior equips from Monster Park, for now, you know, and saving money on future stars), it would definitely be even better with more stars, though.

Somewhat wrong, the only way to bring out its full potential in GMS is by Fusing and getting 2% (->6% atk) Bonus Potential, Just like I've said it's just not as viable, in kms you for example try to get 18 stars on a fafnir (first bonus pot from level 10 items) and then transfer to absolabs, gear which is pointless in GMS due to the fact you can't go beyond 15, due to the increased attack from 16 and above, absolabs become amazing, this is lacking in GMS, buying level 80 overalls and SCUBING them to 9% and toading and so on, you're relying too much on dumb RNG with MPE, and just like you said, for now, it saves and makes us KMSers a lot of money, do you get it now? I am sad it's not viable in GMS, I make 20M per overall with 9% around 3m investment, 17m pure profit and keep on doing this and I become stronger and stronger, 20m or so = 2 tries at 15+ stars for example so I am happy and content with this, less pay2win, more 9%+ equips and so on.

There you go again with "better than nothing", it's not enough for us at this point. I had a long discussion with KhainiWest; years ago where I pointed out how much the game had improved recently (as of then), and they were even less marginal increases than what we have now. The way I see it, they should be aiming to win players back, maybe not to play Maple again, but just to improve their perspective of Maple, and then those players can bring others (or at least, not drive them away, I agree with Nexon in that there is this toxic environment where people are being driven away, but so far their solution is just to tell people to stop being so negative and throwing them a bone every few months), otherwise they end up with this awful reputation where they don't care about their players, and it's not effective to do that with these marginal changes (at least, not for the ones here). An example I guess, would be the auction house. Instead of just giving us the Auction House, they gave us owls for mesos. It was this marginal change that people celebrated, but eventually, okay, this is really just speculation, people realized that it is in fact so pomegranate compared to having an auction house (where you can free buy and sell, and search, for items).

Well, I just really think that GMS is restricted, Khaini pointed it out for me, How many changes can you already do :/? think about adding flames&scubes&and so on, wouldn't that be a huge great sweep we all want? Thing is, how do you get this? Really how? How do we convince nexon KR to stop treating GMS as 2nd class citizen?
Ah yes I even forgot about auction House, such a great feature I use every day to find 3l epic overalls or other equips to scube and make money off, see things like this? on the other hand maplefm does exist but shops aren't free, so it is sad, Look I agree with you all, but you also have to realistic how is this obtainable?

Dailies are a good idea. I really enjoyed Shanghai, at least compared to the Masteria blockbuster it was released with. On a grander scale, it'd be an area to be proud of. There was a rudimentary relationship system where you could build trust between yourself and the town via the main quest line, daily missions that depended on this trust, a coin shop where you could spend the spoils of your daily missions on equips, epic pots, spell traces, stuff like that, you could make clothes that were essentially like the clothes you could get in FriendStory, transformation potions. I stayed in Shanghai for weeks, it was just that good to me. There were also decent monsters to train on for the 140~150 range. It was interesting, I was much more invested in the story of Shanghai than I was to the Masteria blockbuster (which pales in comparison to Black Heaven and Heroes of Maple, so this isn't a negative for blockbusters). If it were bigger in scale, maybe add a fun PQ, it'd easily be the best town in Maple. Content like that is what they should be developing not "here's a bunch of training maps, here's some dailies" (I stress, in my opinion, there are definitely people who do like just having the grindy maps, just not me, anymore). Considering their respective blockbusters with them makes the areas quite a lot better, but the blockbusters are actually so isolated, it's not as satisfying as actually going through Shanghai.

I greatly apologize about assuming you don't know stuff.

Yes I want more dailies as well, these dailies give around 6m worth of meso (tree alone) which is good considering the economy, no idea how would this even be worth while considering absolabs are trash (you sell "Twisted tree small token" basically), do you see how things chain up and make a wide array of things useless? This is what I want to get fixed but how?

[MENTION=6211]Malthe[/MENTION];
Remember it's not the way they are trying to target their audience (other taiwnese people) I've seen koreans dual stream on twitch and afreecatv for example, to get growing for example.
I think I might have given the wrong intention to you, I didn't mean that viewership as the best benchmark for lively hood of the game, but if you look at their streams a lot of people are on and FM is full, you can see it in the stream, what's more is the fact, this is not the right site for them to be on, and they are still getting respectable amount of views.
Maplestory is declining in the west, that's what this whole topic is about, you're ignoring that, Twitch is western, it has <300 views on avg in the maplestory game section, it is not even seen on the frontpage until 4~6 scrolls down or so at times, not that many people care about Maplestory streams here it is small and reserve, It is huge in the right audience sites just like the game itself, and the fact they get decent viewership at the least on something that isn't meant for them is a good thing, yeah sure call me stupid but you're not using any logic at all, Twitch isn't where they stream to get views to begin with, Once again go to afreecatv and look for yourself, look at the BJs playing KMS and how many views they get, Ignore Twitch for a moment and step out of that bubble to understand what this is about, these are variables you just choose to ignore because pineapple it he's dumb.
Calling me delusional when it's clear that you'd never see a large maplestory stream unless the streamer has a lot of followers and subs is ignorance, no one cares about this game as much in the west and those streamers achieved a fairly good goal on unstable ground for basing their channel on, you won't see a KMS stream on twitch ever, because it is unwise and dumb, there's exposure on Afreecatv when it comes to maplestory but sure ignore that, I mean why wouldn't there be one it is the #2 ranked game more or less.

I understand why you're saying this has no sub stance but you need to realize TWMS is rather small, the amount of viewer ship you get there isn't big especially not on twitch, it is lively but it was never big, so please understand that under these circumstances this is a good achievement for them, and for TWMS which is a good version that isn't failing.

Malthe;
Remember it's not the way they are trying to target their audience (other taiwnese people) I've seen koreans dual stream on twitch and afreecatv for example, to get growing for example.
I think I might have given the wrong intention to you, I didn't mean that viewership as the best benchmark for lively hood of the game, but if you look at their streams a lot of people are on and FM is full, you can see it in the stream, what's more is the fact, this is not the right site for them to be on, and they are still getting respectable amount of views.
Maplestory is declining in the west, that's what this whole topic is about, you're ignoring that, Twitch is western, it has <300 views on avg, it is not even seen on the frontpage until 4~6 scrolls down or so at times, not that many people care about Maplestory streams here it is small and reserve, It is huge in the right audience sites just like the game itself, and the fact they get decent viewership at the least on something that isn't meant for them is a good thing, yeah sure call me stupid but you're not using any logic at all, Twitch isn't where they stream to get views to begin with.

Ok i'm no longer gonna just ask if you're stupid, you seem to either intentionally be ignoring what i'm saying or you're just moving the goalpost for the sake of it.
First you say that 60 viewers of 5 streams is great because it's Taiwanese streamers on a western platform on off-hours, now you argue that i should look at the streams and see that the games are thriving?

Are you incapable of reading? i am not arguing about the livelihood of maplestory.
And no, 60 viewers, even 100 viewers and even pineappleing 200 viewers is not a respectable amount of viewers, i mean for a casual streamer that's probably fine. But those numbers are what casual streamers for active and thriving games on twitch get, when those are among your top streamers it is in no way a respectable number

And again, what does maplestory's decline have to do with anything i'm talking about? no i'm not ignoring it, because it was never relevant to what i was commenting on or what i've been talking about for my past few posts.

Let's recap

You used a stupidly small amount of viewers as a metric and argument for why maplestory was doing well.
Other people and myself tell you that said viewer count is stupidly low and doesn't support your case.
You then begin to move the goalpost by saying pomegranate like "but if you look at their streams a lot of people are on and FM is full"

I mean, how the pineapple am i not using logic? SEA streamers that speak chinese primarily and stream dota on twitch still get western viewership that doesn't understand them, korean dota players that stream and speak korean also get western viewership that doesn't understand them. Regardless of it not being the streaming service native to their own country or region. Why? Because dota is a big and thriving game where you most definitely can use twitch viewership to support your argument of it doing well.
Why? because it's always on top and no matter what it's doing well.

Once again, i'm not saying mapelstory is doing poorly since this is apparently hard for you to understand, i'm saying that YOUR METRIC AND THE VIEWS MAPLESTORY GETS ON TWITCH, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU TRY TO TURN IT DOES NOT REFLECT MAPLESTORY IN A POSITIVE LIGHT AT ALL.

If maplestory was interesting to watch, then people would be watching it. Clearly twitch isn't interesting in the game.

And if you were a smart person you'd realize "oh this game probably isn't interesting to twitch's audience" and stop trying to use twitch as a metric that supports your case, because it doesn't.

I mean at this point i almost feel like i'm being baited, there's no way you're this dense right? Anyway i'm genuinely done with this pomegranate. Like talking to a brick wall.

Ok i'm no longer gonna just ask if you're stupid, you seem to either intentionally be ignoring what i'm saying or you're just moving the goalpost for the sake of it.
First you say that 60 viewers of 5 streams is great because it's Taiwanese streamers on a western platform on off-hours, now you argue that i should look at the streams and see that the games are thriving?

Are you incapable of reading? i am not arguing about the livelihood of maplestory.
And no, 60 viewers, even 100 viewers and even pineappleing 200 viewers is not a respectable amount of viewers, i mean for a casual streamer that's probably fine. But those numbers are what casual streamers for active and thriving games on twitch get, when those are among your top streamers it is in no way a respectable number

And again, what does maplestory's decline have to do with anything i'm talking about? no i'm not ignoring it, because it was never relevant to what i was commenting on or what i've been talking about for my past few posts.

Let's recap

You used a stupidly small amount of viewers as a metric and argument for why maplestory was doing well.
Other people and myself tell you that said viewer count is stupidly low and doesn't support your case.
You then begin to move the goalpost by saying pomegranate like "but if you look at their streams a lot of people are on and FM is full"

I mean, how the pineapple am i not using logic? SEA streamers that speak chinese primarily and stream dota on twitch still get western viewership that doesn't understand them, korean dota players that stream and speak korean also get western viewership that doesn't understand them. Regardless of it not being the streaming service native to their own country or region. Why? Because dota is a big and thriving game where you most definitely can use twitch viewership to support your argument of it doing well.
Why? because it's always on top and no matter what it's doing well.

Once again, i'm not saying mapelstory is doing poorly since this is apparently hard for you to understand, i'm saying that YOUR METRIC AND THE VIEWS MAPLESTORY GETS ON TWITCH, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU TRY TO TURN IT DOES NOT REFLECT MAPLESTORY IN A POSITIVE LIGHT AT ALL.

If maplestory was interesting to watch, then people would be watching it. Clearly twitch isn't interesting in the game.

And if you were a smart person you'd realize "oh this game probably isn't interesting to twitch's audience" and stop trying to use twitch as a metric that supports your case, because it doesn't.

I mean at this point i almost feel like i'm being baited, there's no way you're this dense right? Anyway i'm genuinely done with this pomegranate. Like talking to a brick wall.

You've just said it yourself for pineapples sake, No one cares about this game on twitch, this is why these numbers are decent, you're the dense one, I've just explained on how the pineapple these streamers are casual, and they come from a rather small community on the wrong site, Maplestory's decline IN THE WEST ON A WESTERN SITE has to do with it BECAUSE IT MEANS EVEN LESS PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN THE GAME.

These viewers are a good number relatively to the interest of the game and its downfall, do you know what pineappleing relativity means? Relatively to where people actually are interested in this content, Youku, because Westerners DON'T GIVE A pineapple, THE TAINWESE, CHINESE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS ON THEIR OWN SITES AND THE NUMBERS ARE FAR LARGER THERE AND ON THE TOP DO YOU NOT GET THIS CONCEPT.

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MAPLESTORY FALLING I AM EXPLAINING TO YOU HOW IT FUUCKING SHOWCASES THAT THE VIEW NUMBERS ARE GOOD CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Maplestory is FUUCKING huge on Afreecatv, it is also nearly on the pineappleing top there, but not on twitch, I EXPLAINED IT TO YOU ON RATHER WHY THAT pineappleING IS, SO WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE LACK OF INTEREST ON TWITCH TOGETHER WITH THE VIEWS AND HOW CONSISTENT THEY ARE IT IS GOOD FOR SHOWCASING THAT FOR EXAMPLE TWMS IS QUITE POPULAR BECAUSE DESPITE OF IT BEING ON THE WRONG SITE IT STILL DOES WELL CONSISTENTLY RELATIVELY COMPARED TO ITS POPULARITY.

Variables pineappleing exist.

You are actually a complete idiot. My apologies, shouldn't make fun of those less capable.

You are actually a complete an idiot. My apologies, shouldn't make fun of those less capable.

That's fine, learn to do some math while you're laughing at the less capable, and search up the word 'relative".
here for you a stream at 9 am http://play.afreecatv.com/skswhdkgo/176295683 800+ viewers btw and there are a lot more, twitch tv is not the site for sharing live streams for maple and when you add the fact that they get a decent amount of viewership, ON DEAD HOURS YES GOD FORBID A VARIABLE THAT IS ABLE TO SHOWCASE US PEAKS AND SUCH aaa, on twitch even compared to these sites, it's decent, but alas adding variables up is too hard for the less capable as they say or god forbid comparing.
Consider these as pathetic number as is, just ignore how it needs people to view the actual stream, thus the streamer needs to available and they usually streaming at not the best hours, that's fine, logic is hard when you just barely passed 3rd grade math.
I never cared if you don't care about how maplestory is declining but ignoring the fact it affects western viewership on a western site and barely any foreign (who plays ms) goes on it, and not say yoku or afreecatv, is just wow.

How many people would even care about actual s,cubes, viable toading, flames, extra stars etc, If someone who didn't play KMS would be here, and would showcase how successful it is there and how it helped MS? You're claiming that I am so Ignorant about GMS while you don't play KMS (I know you have an account but it doesn't count), that sort of comment is what's not helping anything.

I do genuinely believe people are exaggerating about the Player-base though, Koreans aren't no life grinders 24/7, this is just stupid, everyone plays the game more or less the same, and everyone can enjoy it especially now and it could be amazing if GMS could fix its issues and get on the ground like KMS, I am not sure why this is though, why people insist that the mindsets are so different between the east and the west to the point where this game which everyone enjoyed in the past and many still do enjoy exists, everyone does grind and so on, the only viable issue is the management not the playerbase which prevents adding actual good stuff onto the game, if nexon KR thought so badly of GMS being played by koreans there wouldn't be so many deficiencies.

Some games do better than others in different countries, that's just a fact. I think there are definitely strong differences, you can see based on what kind of games are popular in Korea vs America, but the people who play GMS and KMS are, of course, far more similar than like, I don't know, Japanese Final Fantasy players vs American Halo players, I think, simply because both were drawn towards playing Maple in the first place.

I feel like whenever people say that the game needs big sweeps, they don't get that, it's frankly impossible and a change is better than no change, it does slow down the bleeding of players, I am not asking of anyone to be thankful but realize that it is just impossible with how things are heading and the KRs won't budge.

I don't feel it's reasonable to just accept that, it's something that really needs to change, and I feel others feel the same way, hence the complaints.

Somewhat wrong, the only way to bring out its full potential in GMS is by Fusing and getting 2% (->6% atk) Bonus Potential, Just like I've said it's just not as viable, in kms you for example try to get 18 stars on a fafnir (first bonus pot from level 10 items) and then transfer to absolabs, gear which is pointless in GMS due to the fact you can't go beyond 15, due to the increased attack from 16 and above, absolabs become amazing, this is lacking in GMS, buying level 80 overalls and SCUBING them to 9% and toading and so on, you're relying too much on dumb RNG with MPE, and just like you said, for now, it saves and makes us KMSers a lot of money, do you get it now? I am sad it's not viable in GMS, I make 20M per overall with 9% around 3m investment, 17m pure profit and keep on doing this and I become stronger and stronger, 20m or so = 2 tries at 15+ stars for example so I am happy and content with this, less pay2win, more 9%+ equips and so on.

We got more abundant crafting cubes basically in exchange for the existence of occult cubes. I'm not sure I'd want to give them up, but they've never really done anything for me anyway. We lack many of the ways to make mesos that exist in KMS, our crafting cubes aren't even tradeable. But mesos are basically useless anyway, it's technically against the rules to use them in a way that would make a significant difference (like, buying NX without cash trading), mesos being worthless means any good equips (like fully scrolled and cubed equips) are far too expensive for regular players to get.

Well, I just really think that GMS is restricted, Khaini pointed it out for me, How many changes can you already do :/? think about adding flames&scubes&and so on, wouldn't that be a huge great sweep we all want? Thing is, how do you get this? Really how? How do we convince nexon KR to stop treating GMS as 2nd class citizen?
Ah yes I even forgot about auction House, such a great feature I use every day to find 3l epic overalls or other equips to scube and make money off, see things like this? on the other hand maplefm does exist but shops aren't free, so it is sad, Look I agree with you all, but you also have to realistic how is this obtainable?

By being vocal about it. Things don't change if you do nothing. Hell, we don't even have evidence things change even when we do things, maybe they would've done the "A Better Maple" improvements even if we weren't complaining, but it's better to give it a try than not doing anything at all. But not here, this is basically the land Nexon has forsaken.

And, you know, getting all the stuff in KMS that don't exist in GMS isn't like the limit of changes they could make, I don't agree that getting closer to KMS is the standard we should be aiming for, hell, when we lost Occult Cubes, they were pomegranate, they only worked on rare and epic stuff, and they deranked, and in exchange, we got crafting cubes that were much easier to get, and that was a hell of a positive change compared to just doing what KMS did. Getting some of those things would definitely be nice, but we can do better.

Some games do better than others in different countries, that's just a fact. I think there are definitely strong differences, you can see based on what kind of games are popular in Korea vs America, but the people who play GMS and KMS are, of course, far more similar than like, I don't know, Japanese Final Fantasy players vs American Halo players, I think, simply because both were drawn towards playing Maple in the first place.



I don't feel it's reasonable to just accept that, it's something that really needs to change, and I feel others feel the same way, hence the complaints.



We got more abundant crafting cubes basically in exchange for the existence of occult cubes. I'm not sure I'd want to give them up, but they've never really done anything for me anyway. We lack many of the ways to make mesos that exist in KMS, our crafting cubes aren't even tradeable. But mesos are basically useless anyway, it's technically against the rules to use them in a way that would make a significant difference (like, buying NX without cash trading), mesos being worthless means any good equips (like fully scrolled and cubed equips) are far too expensive for regular players to get.



By being vocal about it. Things don't change if you do nothing. Hell, we don't even have evidence things change even when we do things, maybe they would've done the "A Better Maple" improvements even if we weren't complaining, but it's better to give it a try than not doing anything at all.

And, you know, getting all the stuff in KMS that don't exist in GMS isn't like the limit of changes they could make, I don't agree that getting closer to KMS is the standard we should be aiming for, hell, when we lost Occult Cubes, they were pomegranate, they only worked on rare and epic stuff, and they deranked, and in exchange, we got crafting cubes that were much easier to get, and that was a hell of a positive change compared to just doing what KMS did. Getting some of those things would definitely be nice, but we can do better.

Well remember that S,cubes became a lot better, I think Meister Cubes could co-exist with strange cubes, it is far more consistent and healthy to the game to have S,cubes but that's my biased view.

I said I knew you have a KMS account but you're like the only one (who posts on southperry) besides myself :f3.

It's not that I don't accept it, I just don't accept that people just think it's fine to have the same discussion (without any insight) every 8 months, that's all, as I've said I liked how things were going on here, well not anymore.

If mesos are worthless it needs to be fixed, I think becoming more KMS like, adding more meso sinks would help, more 'godly' items so to speak, I mean the korean model is clearly working, they should at least add flames, Remember that GMS and CMS share content so that alongside the KMS content could be a bomb, and just like you said being drawn towards maplestory is why I don't think like that arguement, it creates a common core before all else.

P.S do you know why GMSers were against flames in the first place?

It doesn't matter what you compare it to, which is necessary for something to be relative to something else. Those numbers are dogpomegranate, and the fact that you're still trying to imply that they mean anything positive honestly reflects poorly on your mental capacity to understand just how garbage sub 200 average viewers for a game is.

And no, they didn't get decent amount of viewership on twitch, 60 viewers for 5 streamers is not, has not and never will be a decent viewership unless 99% of humanity died.

The fact that you think i should look at it relatively or adding up variables and that you still seemingly think that their viewership actually somehow reflects positively for the state of maplestory genuinely makes you look like a pineappleing retard, like a few other people before me have tried to point out, granted they used some kinder words.

You said maplestory was 'pineappleing huge' on afreeca, yet you link me to a stream with 800 viewers? in what world is that 'pineappleing huge'? Are you just pretending to be an idiot? Is this some master level bait? If so then congratulations, you tricked me.

>Bring up twitch viewers as an argument
>People point out why that is a pomegranatety argument
>NUH UH THIS OTHER STREAMING SERVICE IS DOING WELL THIS MEANS THE RELATIVE NUMBERS ON TWITCH ARE ALSO GOOD BECAUSE REASONS I MAKE UP MYSELF
>RELATIVE TO THINGS THAT MAKE NO SENSE IT MEANS THAT MAPLESTORY IS DOING GREAT BECAUSE IT HAS NO VIEWERS, THESE pomegranateTY NUMBERS ARE ACTUALLY GREAT NUMBERS BECAUSE THE GAME IS DYING IN THE WEST
>ALSO LOOK AT THIS MEDIOCRE STREAM WITH A MINISCULE AMOUNT OF VIEWERS, LOOK HOW pineappleING HUGE IT IS

Like you're either genuinely mentally impaired or you just can't see anything but your own view and anyone that disagrees must clearly not understand things from your brilliant perspective. You've had multiple people tell you why your points regarding twitch are retarded, yet you keep insisting they aren't retarded for reason that make no sense.

It doesn't matter what you compare it to, which is necessary for something to be relative to something else. Those numbers are dogpomegranate, and the fact that you're still trying to imply that they mean anything positive honestly reflects poorly on your mental capacity to understand just how garbage sub 200 average viewers for a game is.

And no, they didn't get decent amount of viewership on twitch, 60 viewers for 5 streamers is not, has not and never will be a decent viewership unless 99% of humanity died.

The fact that you think i should look at it relatively or adding up variables and that you still seemingly think that their viewership actually somehow reflects positively for the state of maplestory genuinely makes you look like a pineappleing retard, like a few other people before me have tried to point out, granted they used some kinder words.

You said maplestory was 'pineappleing huge' on afreeca, yet you link me to a stream with 800 viewers? in what world is that 'pineappleing huge'? Are you just pretending to be an idiot? Is this some master level bait? If so then congratulations, you tricked me.

>Bring up twitch viewers as an argument
>People point out why that is a pomegranatety argument
>NUH UH THIS OTHER STREAMING SERVICE IS DOING WELL THIS MEANS THE RELATIVE NUMBERS ON TWITCH ARE ALSO GOOD BECAUSE REASONS I MAKE UP MYSELF
>RELATIVE TO THINGS THAT MAKE NO SENSE IT MEANS THAT MAPLESTORY IS DOING GREAT BECAUSE IT HAS NO VIEWERS, THESE pomegranateTY NUMBERS ARE ACTUALLY GREAT NUMBERS BECAUSE THE GAME IS DYING IN THE WEST
>ALSO LOOK AT THIS MEDIOCRE STREAM WITH A MINISCULE AMOUNT OF VIEWERS, LOOK HOW pineappleING HUGE IT IS

One example, ONE EXAMPLE WHEN I STATED THERE ARE MORE AND THAT'S NOT HARD TO FIND AND ONCE AGAIN LET'S IGNORE IT'S FRIDAY MORNING 9 AM AND PEOPLE ARE AT SCHOOL/WORK LOL AND 70% OF THE VIEWS ARE ON MOBILE AS IF THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT.
Consider sub 200 garbage, no one cares, these are casual streams on a foreign site and you're nobody to begin with, I can attack you as well in fact I'll do it couple of times.
You don't get what a non biased comparison is, you don't know how to compare things objectively, you've shown plenty of ignorance when you acted as if them being from TW on a foreign site where the game fails doesn't matter.
No one claimed they're huge, I said in that when you consider A+B+C you get that, this is alright and showcases an active community which indulges in the game in the wrong place and gives decent results to look at compared to others on twitch-maplestory and are english speaker.
I did say it showcases that maplestory is still an active game and has a good viewership because it is on a pineappleing desolate site for streaming this, sorry here
des·o·late
adjective
ˈdesələt/
1.
(of a place) deserted of people and in a state of bleak and dismal emptiness.
"a desolate moor"
synonyms: bleak, stark, bare, dismal, grim; More
Just stop, you're dumb, hope you'll pass past 5 views in your miserable life, as I didn't start attacking you and you have.
Also sorry for using a numeral aka One earlier I know it's difficult to grasp such an advanced concept, but somehow you know how to determine a decent view count, weird.

You're claiming I am short sighted yet I've been able to handle conversations here without cutting 99% of my text and looking like a retard and agreeing with others, if you're such a twitch god then what the pineapple are you doing here? Go do it for a living, Let's see you get past 800 Views playing maplestory on twitch, just forget about this honestly, you don't grasp the concept that View count+Time during streaming+What game+WHERE it is = Matters.

You can disagree with me on many things but you literally show no actual points which I can agree on, besides, wow it's so pathetic (despite being one example), I am so knowledgeable, and stupid comparisons to a huge game such as dota 2, how about you explain why it's so pathetic despite being streamed at times where people work and go out or why the site doesn't even matter then start attacking me and claiming troll baits without any context, you just don't get it, the game isn't popular on that site the end, and for that fact these numbers are half decent at best given who it is that is streaming, go scout MS1 on twitch daily, look at multiply occasions and how it behaves according to the time in different parts of the world.

P.S do you know why GMSers were against flames in the first place?

Anti-power creep. Mostly because, from what I could see, they conflated additional options with MEEs. Now I think the official party line is that it makes upgrading things too complicated.

One example, ONE EXAMPLE WHEN I STATED THERE ARE MORE AND THAT'S NOT HARD TO FIND AND ONCE AGAIN LET'S IGNORE IT'S FRIDAY MORNING 9 AM AND PEOPLE ARE AT SCHOOL/WORK LOL AND 70% OF THE VIEWS ARE ON MOBILE AS IF THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT.
Consider sub 200 garbage, no one cares, these are casual streams on a foreign site and you're nobody to begin with, I can attack you as well in fact I'll do it couple of times.
You don't get what a non biased comparison is, you don't know how to compare things objectively, you've shown plenty of ignorance when you acted as if them being from TW on a foreign site where the game fails doesn't matter.
No one claimed they're huge, I said in that when you consider A+B+C you get that, this is alright and showcases an active community which indulges in the game in the wrong place and gives decent results to look at compared to others on twitch-maplestory and are english speaker.
I did say it showcases that maplestory is still an active game and has a good viewership because it is on a pineappleing desolate site for streaming this, sorry here
des·o·late
adjective
ˈdesələt/
1.
(of a place) deserted of people and in a state of bleak and dismal emptiness.
"a desolate moor"
synonyms: bleak, stark, bare, dismal, grim; More
Just stop, you're dumb, hope you'll pass past 5 views in your miserable life, as I didn't start attacking you and you have.

When someone says a gaming stream is pineappleing huge i don't expect viewer numbers below 2k for a top streamer at any point in time buddy. Are you simply unfamiliar with streaming numbers? Because it clearly appears to be the case.
And yes, sub 200 is garbage, that's not even a matter of opinion, it's just fact.

Yes i do get what a non-biased comparison is, considering it's one of the things i work with on a near daily basis. Them being from taiwan on a foreign site would be impressive if they got maybe 1000 viewers, but averagely 12 viewers split between eachother? yeah nah buddy, that's not impressive no matter how you try to twist and turn it. It's not impressive relative to anything, no matter what you try to add to the equation it never becomes impressive. If you genuinely think so, then we're back to what i've been saying since the start, you have no pineappleing idea about twitch as a platform.

It's not ignorance to state that 12 viewers is a retardedly small amount, do you personally understand how little 12 viewers are? Does your brain grasp how pineappleing miniscule an amount of people that is?

You said that it was pineappleING HUGE on afreeca and then you link me to an 800 viewer stream, might i remind you. Want to know what kind of games are pineappleING HUGE? League of legends, dota, CS:GO, hearthstone. Those are pineappleING HUGE games that consistently have 50k+ viewers and easily breaks 100k when anything happens with some of them nearing a million when super big things happens, on twitch alone.

Or what is your metric for pineappleING HUGE? 12 viewers, regardless of how dead a game is, is never a good, active or impressive number. I genuinely don't know how i can get you to understand this.

How exactly am i being dumb? For stating facts? Since when did that make you dumb? I'm fairly sure playing a retard that thinks 12 viewers is impressive is a bit dumber.

Also top pineappleing kek if you think i haven't personally been past 5 viewers on a stream. but then again, coming from someone that thinks 12 is an impressive view number i guess trying to insult someone with the number of FIVE WHOLE VIEWERS might seem like a big insult.

When someone says a gaming stream is pineappleing huge i don't expect viewer numbers below 2k for a top streamer at any point in time buddy. Are you simply unfamiliar with streaming numbers? Because it clearly appears to be the case.
And yes, sub 200 is garbage, that's not even a matter of opinion, it's just fact.

Yes i do get what a non-biased comparison is, considering it's one of the things i work with on a near daily basis. Them being from taiwan on a foreign site would be impressive if they got maybe 1000 viewers, but averagely 12 viewers split between eachother? yeah nah buddy, that's not impressive no matter how you try to twist and turn it. It's not impressive relative to anything, no matter what you try to add to the equation it never becomes impressive. If you genuinely think so, then we're back to what i've been saying since the start, you have no pineappleing idea about twitch as a platform.

It's not ignorance to state that 12 viewers is a retardedly small amount, do you personally understand how little 12 viewers are? Does your brain grasp how pineappleing miniscule an amount of people that is?

You said that it was pineappleING HUGE, might i remind you. Want to know what kind of games are pineappleING HUGE? League of legends, dota, CS:GO, hearthstone. Those are pineappleING HUGE games that consistently have 50k+ viewers and easily breaks 100k when anything happens with some of them nearing a million when super big things happens, on twitch alone.

Or what is your metric for pineappleING HUGE? 12 viewers, regardless of how dead a game is, is never a good, active or impressive number. I genuinely don't know how i can get you to understand this.

How exactly am i being dumb? For stating facts? Since when did that make you dumb? I'm fairly sure playing a retard that thinks 12 viewers is impressive is a bit dumber.

Also top pineappleing kek if you think i haven't personally been past 5 viewers on a stream. but then again, coming from someone that thinks 12 is an impressive view number i guess trying to insult someone with the number of FIVE WHOLE VIEWERS might seem like a big insult.

Ok then you do understand something, it's fine if you say 1000 as impressive considering the circumstances I might agree with you as you properly used one of the most important points, but there are 100+ viewers on a single stream at times, and it splits <60 between taiwnese streamers at time, being around 250 total on peak hours, look I understand that you don't see it as impressive even objectively but consider how unpopular maplestory is on twitch, it really is. It is popular on korean streaming sites, that was a single example really during a bad time, I can find you more and I am not sure what the sum would be but it would definitely be large, Yes I know, how could MS (on twitch) compare to them man, that's why I compare them I kept mentioning relatively speaking to the demand of ms on twitch and where these people are.

12 viewers by 5 is still fine, I understand you why you dismiss this as pathetic but it just isn't, this was very casual and on actual bigger times you have around 200 people on twitch at these kind of streams, along with more on sites that do want to see this game and in their own language.
I didn't say it was HUGE (on twitch) I said decent, ctrl+f the amount of times I said decent given once again circumstances, it's just a fading game that people who twitch targets aren't interested in, I mean as I've said it's rare to have a viewer count of 1000 twitch it only happens when a huge person with a decent amount of subs suddenly plays it or a network, these people stream daily and have consistent viewers along with what's actually going on the streams it is not bad, not bad at all, I know why you don't even consider is at decent but honestly you don't get how small Maplestory is on twitch, if you were to look at it daily, you'd understand, especially compared to other sites where the viewers really want this type of content.
You dismiss a 900 viewers more or less streamer for naught though, even on a site that likes MS, that alone wouldn't tell you it's doing well? I mean compare to twitch it looks godly all of the sudden, I agree it isn't godly, but it is a single streamer.

Ok then you do understand something, it's fine if you say 1000 as impressive considering the circumstances I might agree with you as you properly used one of the most important points, but there are 100+ viewers on a single stream at teams, and it splits <60 between taiwnese streamers at time, being around 250 total on peak hours, look I understand that you don't see it as impressive even objectively but consider how unpopular maplestory is on twitch, it really is. It is popular on korean streaming sites, that was a single example really during a bad time, I can find you more and I am not sure what the sum would be but it would definitely be large, Yes I know, how could MS (on twitch) compare to them man, that's why I compare them I kept mentioning relatively speaking to the demand of ms on twitch and where these people are.

12 viewers by 5 is still fine, I understand you why you dismiss this as pathetic but it just isn't, this was very casual and on actual bigger times you have around 200 people on twitch at these kind of streams, along with more on sites that do want to see this game and in their own language.
I didn't say it was HUGE (on twitch) I said decent, ctrl+f the amount of times I said decent given once again circumstances.

No, it really isn't. there are games far more unpopular anywhere in the world with far less players that manage to have just as few viewers on twitch. 250 viewers on twitch has not and will probably never indicate that a game is doing well. Like i don't get how you don't get this, you can not use such a pineappleing miniscule amount of viewers as an argument for HEY SEE THIS GAME HAS pomegranateTY VIEWER NUMBERS, BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT IT THEY BECOME GOOD NUMBERS

No they don't

Have you considered the following, something i've said more than just once:
The viewers might be a small but loyal amount of viewers, if you had 250 people that consistently kept watching streams, that'd be cool and it'd show that there was a loyal fanbase, but does it indicate any kind of actual popularity? No. Does it indicate that the game is doing well? No.
Some games have niche followings regardless of their playercount.

It's not decent given the circumstances, it's not decent given anything.
It's just a small number for an unpopular game. I mean for crying out loud pineappleing TIBIA had like 500 viewers the other day, does this mean tibia is doing well because there's a small amount of demand yet 500 people still watched it somehow? No, it just means there's a small but loyal group of fans that still sometimes watch. Tibia is still a dead game regardless, its viewership has nothing to do with the activity of the game. Just like it has nothing to do with the activity of maple.