Tropes vs Women in Video Gaming - Damsel in Distress

The more I actually learn about this Anita the less I feel about her credibility :|

Well I have 0 credibility to anyone who entitles herself as "feminist" and claim they want equal rights.
If they want equality right why not call herselves as "humanist" I mean we are all equal right?

No, her whole point of the video is the fact that the trope is incredibly overused. Nowhere did she say we were supposed to take offense to them, else we wouldn't be playing the games.

But then there's really no purpose to the video if it's to just point out that it's overused. o-o Why should we care that it's overused when it's a good game? >Because when it's overused, it becomes sexist. That's what she's trying to get across. She even went on to point out that the use of the trope in video games (which is a big part of culture today) is making it a common thought that women are weaker, etc etc.

Well I have 0 credibility to anyone who entitles herself as "feminist" and claim they want equal rights.
If they want equality right why not call herselves as "humanist" I mean we are all equal right?

Because feminism is about establishing equal rights for women specifically, not all humans (like LGBT, for example).

Because feminism is about establishing equal rights for women specifically, not all humans (like LGBT, for example).

Isn't that already achieved?
The origin of feminism was to get some privilegede WHITE women to vote.
Feminism is not what it was.

Furthermore:
I have nothing against feminism, they are doing GREAT things specially in middle-east countries where the woman is still treated as an object.
But still, the media and west society has twisted this term SO MUCH that at least to me there's no way I can support this movement on this continent.

 Spoiler

Well I have 0 credibility to anyone who entitles herself as "feminist" and claim they want equal rights.
If they want equality right why not call herselves as "humanist" I mean we are all equal right?

THIS SOOOOOOO MUCH. Its one of the main reason why I dont support the path of feminist. I know the name represents what it stands for. Giving female's more rights. But calling themselves "feminists" auto segregates themselves from men. Which isn't want you want to do. I know the goal is equal rights for the sexes but they should call themselves what their goal is and not the path they plan to take.

Think about if Marther Luther King Jr. called his group Blackisim. (<- even though I think he was for equality of all races and just happened to be black.) Yes it would be an approate name for what hes doing but it segreagates himself and his group from everyone who isnt black.

The more I actually learn about this Anita the less I feel about her credibility :|

How else are you going to make money with a BS in Communication Studies and an MS in Social and Political Thought?

In general,

does anyone think that a real social activist would pull together $150,000 to confront the poor portrayal of women in the video game industry? I think that most of us know that the industry does what it does because it generates money. And games are centered around what works to bring continued profit. When they make a game its purpose is not to serve as social commentary... that's what people who have an MS in Media Studies and Pop Television do in order to entertain readers and afford the bills. There's no real issue of social activism, just one of addressing corporate profit formulas. Sex sells. We see this even in cross-media with the success of 50 Shades of Grey which depicts an even starker and more oppressive relationship for young women in contemporary society (Disclaimer: Don't read it). We haven't "progressed" or made "changes" because there are no incentives or profits to be made in doing so. We change all the time if we predict that investing in a new energy source or diversifying our portfolio will help us net greater profit margins. However what comes from this, much less what role women should start playing and whether there is a real demographic to pull in profit in a risk that companies should not feel guiltied at all in not taking.

How else are you going to make money with a BS in Communication Studies and an MS in Social and Political Thought?

....Touch'e

Isn't that already achieved?
The origin of feminism was to get some privilegede WHITE women to vote.
Feminism is not what it was.

Furthermore:
I have nothing against feminism, they are doing GREAT things specially in middle-east countries where the woman is still treated as an object.
But still, the media and west society has twisted this term SO MUCH that at least to me there's no way I can support this movement on this continent.

 Spoiler

That isn't a problem with feminism, that's a problem with feminist EXTREMISTS. It doesn't invalidate what they truly want. Its the same with any group of extremists.

Though as a whole about the movement: Excluding heavy legal issues such as abortion and the plague of rape. I personally feel that the best approach to cultural issues, that is things regarding social interaction between men and women, isn't to only worry about 'my side' of it.

For many of these types of issues american feminism are focusing on, it's sometimes the problems men face, that are underlying root causes of cultural issues for women, and vice versa. To disregard the other side because 'my side has more problems' is essentially shooting your own effort in the foot. You end up not giving complete solutions that no one can fully regard without it feeling controlling or selfish.

Its much akin to untangling wires in my opinion, you can pull out one issue once you've pulled out another, and some you have work on at the same time to get anywhere. If we hope to improve the culture and interaction between men and women. Then it needs to be an open dialog: not a shouting match of one side yelling at the other their demands without addressing the other side's issues.

There's a reason why Martin Luther King is more celebrated than Malcom X: MLK wanted to IMPROVE the relationship between races. His i have a dream speech didn't say 'black children could play by themselves in peace' but for both white and black children to be able to hold hands, and to be the 'brother' of white people. Brothers love each other.

Malcom X on the other hand wanted more independence, more separatist and a bit more aggressive about calling out the 'BS' so to speak. Both had the goal of equality.

However, its MLK's efforts that are better remembered and made the difference. Cause he still regarded the other side.

It's for that reason i believe its going to take less shouting and more figuring things out things with both sides in mind. More explaining why this hurts us, and why if we change this, that will become better for our interests as a whole. None of that is saying women don't have more problems that men. Cause the thing is, it shouldn't even BE a contest. We should be trying to improve the relations between men and women ACROSS the board regardless of who has more problems.

Do all feminists do the whole 'tear them down?' No ofc not. I'm not stereotyping. However. They are a very loud minority and a trip through the internet will show it. More level and fair feminists. The 'MLK's', so to speak. Should get out there and even dissassociate with extremists and point out that they don't want to tear down men just because 'they've had the upper hand long enough'. If that happened in mass, I'm sure even more women would actively support the feminist cause, and even better yet, more men.

The media is incredibly shallow and obtuse, which is precisely why people like it. Attacking a media like video games is like pointing at a five year old who committed a misdeed and stating that this is indicative of how our culture is declining or remaining at a troubling impasse. Video games feature moments we will never experience or simply have such as rescuing a princess or whatever damsel in distress. I'm not expecting some realistic Private Eye Detective game where I'm digging into social stereotypes, I'm fighting a talking dragon that spits fire out of his mouth and the rest of his smaller kin. Yes, video games are base. Seriously, that's why we like them. Do I want Yuna in a snow-coat? No. That would make an unbearable game even more unbearable. (I'll debate expanding on this when I get back).

The media is incredibly shallow and obtuse, which is precisely why people like it. Attacking a media like video games is like pointing at a five year old who committed a misdeed and stating that this is indicative of how our culture is declining or remaining at a troubling impasse. Video games feature moments we will never experience or simply have such as rescuing a princess or whatever damsel in distress. I'm not expecting some realistic Private Eye Detective game where I'm digging into social stereotypes, I'm fighting a talking dragon that spits fire out of his mouth and the rest of his smaller kin. Yes, video games are base. Seriously, that's why we like them. Do I want Yuna in a snow-coat? No. That would make an unbearable game even more unbearable. (I'll debate expanding on this when I get back).

Even though its pointing fingers. The source of the influence is the media itself. So focusing on the media is a good way to go. Some videogames can have the sexism just as some movies have unintended rasism. But when the vast majority have this reoccurring feature a problem arises.

I think the problem with this series is it's too zoomed in, so to speak. She's both focusing on pretty much only Nintendo, and only video games. While damsels in distress are a common theme, they're a common theme everywhere. Almost all comics feature a recurring damsel (eg. Lois Lane, Mary Jane, etc.), along with most literature and movies.

Personally, I really don't care one way or the other, but that might just be because I'm male. I play Zelda cause it's fun, not to rescue Zelda, and I'd play even if that wasn't the objective in the game. As for the scantily clad issue, I'm not complaining, because hey, boobs (Not that I'd care if they stop using such outfits.).

What I disagree with is the idea that the "damsel in distress" trope is problematic. Supporting characters are allowed to be helpless.

The point that's being made isn't that the idea itself (supporting characters being helpless) is bad, it's that women in video games are almost always put in this position. What's problematic is that all of the characters who are helpless and cannot do anything to change their situation are overwhelmingly female.

There is a major difference between "helpless men" and "helpless women," which is what creates the problematic Damsel in Distress. Male characters who are shown as helpless almost never suffer from the inability to not do something. Even in your prior example of "Mario is helpless," he isn't; he's still running about and trying to change the future outcome of events. He's not powerless, which is what the DiD trope is showing. The point of this trope, as she's said in the video, is that you strip power from a female character. It's not just a one-off, either; you can have examples of characters who were 'strong' but suddenly become Damsel'd in their own ways. Here's a good example of a horrible game story that did this: Final Fantasy VIII. Rinoa starts off fairly weak and is shown as consistently stupid/naive (Quistiss also falls prone to this despite being intelligent, since she gets demoted from her original position; Selphie's obviously bat pomegranate crazy, especially when it comes to trains). Rinoa, however, becomes possessed (strips Rinoa's powers away, Damseling her); she then falls into a coma (strips more power away from Rinoa). These two plot devices (badly) aid Squall's push to 'do something,' because he's looking for a way to save Rinoa (not that anyone will ever know why, since this is a problem of story continuity).

That's what the trope is about. Men generally don't have power stripped from them; they have options taken away, but they're "creative" enough to figure out a new way to solve their problem. Or they're still able to continue their journey and accidentally solve the issue. (Or, if it's a particularly bad storyteller, they forget it all together.) Women, on the other hand, lose their power when Damsel'd; these characters become helpless, useless, powerless and have no opportunities to change their own story. Their strife and struggles are shown as a changing element to the wrong person. In fact, they almost never have anything to say/feel about their detainment/capture. That's the difference.

And while I can think of one game where a male character is shown in this light (Mario is Missing), I also remember that he was not the main focus of the game; your main focus was to answer history questions to replace missing historical artefacts! It wasn't until the end of the game that I even remembered he'd been taken and why I was doing what I was doing. And that's one game out of how many where a male character has been entirely detained with no chance of escape? When women take this role, you're reminded of it at almost every turn. Someone always has to bring it up.

I would like to see more strong female protagonists in games, but I don't think the damsel in distress trope hinders that in any way.

She even mentions that it doesn't, using examples of how Zelda (and her disguises) were strong and helpful characters. The trope itself is that you strip power from someone, even if it's temporarily done. You can see this in a lot of games, but it's the fact that it's overwhelmingly female. Moving up a few years, let's look at FFX. Yuna is a pretty strong character with a lot of development, especially considering she's shown to start out as a fairly dim and unexplored person; she grows as she travels and learns as she meets people. She turns into a Stand Her Ground sort of character, but the problem is that she gets damsel'd at one point in the story to "advance it" (and ironically introduce you to Rikku and the goal of the Al Bhed, even though there were a number of ways this could've been done). She gets kidnapped from the Shoopuf and placed inside a mechanical prison. At this point in the game, she's then rescued by two men (because Wakka and Tidus are the only swimmers at this time, since you've yet to acquire Rikku -- that's not inherently problematic).

That doesn't mean that she's overall weak, and that doesn't mean that she's always useless or helpless. But if it was a male character in Yuna's position (or one similar), he wouldn't need that assistance. He'd have found a way to escape through his own power. (Or it wouldn't have happened to begin with, since she's just snatched up as easily as a donut left sitting on a plate.) Again, that's where the difference comes between the two.

League of Legends is particularly bad when it comes to female hero design, but I don't understand why you take exception to the rarity of brawny female characters in games. The big warriors are usually male because men are bigger and it takes a lot of muscles to swing a big axe. In a game with fixed character models, it just makes sense. It's not as if the spellcasters and more agile classes are less important.

I didn't say they were less important, but let's take a look at that logic versus reality for a moment. We have brawny women, we have women who could wield axes just as easily as the next man, we have women involved in melee sports (boxing, fencing, sword arts, martial arts, and so on).

Look through history: There are women who know how to protect themselves. Women weren't as defenseless as they were turned into through the history books. Many of them, even in the Middle Ages, did the exact same work as their male counterparts. You know who didn't? The upper class women. The overwhelming number of lower class women did much of the same work as their husbands; if they didn't, they wouldn't have survived. Women aren't overwhelmingly weaker. That's why this is annoying.

Also, it's a game. If you're gaining an audience that includes a lot of women (and maybe even some progressive men!), you probably should cater to them a bit more. Some of us girls like to play female characters and prefer melee skills to ranged ones. You've already alienated us when you've shown that the only thing we can do is stand back and shoot arrows at enemies or read books at them until they die.

The point that's being made isn't that the idea itself (supporting characters being helpless) is bad, it's that women in video games are almost always put in this position. What's problematic is that all of the characters who are helpless and cannot do anything to change their situation are overwhelmingly female.

There is a major difference between "helpless men" and "helpless women," which is what creates the problematic Damsel in Distress. Male characters who are shown as helpless almost never suffer from the inability to not do something. Even in your prior example of "Mario is helpless," he isn't; he's still running about and trying to change the future outcome of events. He's not powerless, which is what the DiD trope is showing. The point of this trope, as she's said in the video, is that you strip power from a female character. It's not just a one-off, either; you can have examples of characters who were 'strong' but suddenly become Damsel'd in their own ways. Here's a good example of a horrible game story that did this: Final Fantasy VIII. Rinoa starts off fairly weak and is shown as consistently stupid/naive (Quistiss also falls prone to this despite being intelligent, since she gets demoted from her original position; Selphie's obviously bat pomegranate crazy, especially when it comes to trains). Rinoa, however, becomes possessed (strips Rinoa's powers away, Damseling her); she then falls into a coma (strips more power away from Rinoa). These two plot devices (badly) aid Squall's push to 'do something,' because he's looking for a way to save Rinoa (not that anyone will ever know why, since this is a problem of story continuity).

That's what the trope is about. Men generally don't have power stripped from them; they have options taken away, but they're "creative" enough to figure out a new way to solve their problem. Or they're still able to continue their journey and accidentally solve the issue. (Or, if it's a particularly bad storyteller, they forget it all together.) Women, on the other hand, lose their power when Damsel'd; these characters become helpless, useless, powerless and have no opportunities to change their own story. Their strife and struggles are shown as a changing element to the wrong person. In fact, they almost never have anything to say/feel about their detainment/capture. That's the difference.

And while I can think of one game where a male character is shown in this light (Mario is Missing), I also remember that he was not the main focus of the game; your main focus was to answer history questions to replace missing historical artefacts! It wasn't until the end of the game that I even remembered he'd been taken and why I was doing what I was doing. And that's one game out of how many where a male character has been entirely detained with no chance of escape? When women take this role, you're reminded of it at almost every turn. Someone always has to bring it up.



She even mentions that it doesn't, using examples of how Zelda (and her disguises) were strong and helpful characters. The trope itself is that you strip power from someone, even if it's temporarily done. You can see this in a lot of games, but it's the fact that it's overwhelmingly female. Moving up a few years, let's look at FFX. Yuna is a pretty strong character with a lot of development, especially considering she's shown to start out as a fairly dim and unexplored person; she grows as she travels and learns as she meets people. She turns into a Stand Her Ground sort of character, but the problem is that she gets damsel'd at one point in the story to "advance it" (and ironically introduce you to Rikku and the goal of the Al Bhed, even though there were a number of ways this could've been done). She gets kidnapped from the Shoopuf and placed inside a mechanical prison. At this point in the game, she's then rescued by two men (because Wakka and Tidus are the only swimmers at this time, since you've yet to acquire Rikku -- that's not inherently problematic).

That doesn't mean that she's overall weak, and that doesn't mean that she's always useless or helpless. But if it was a male character in Yuna's position (or one similar), he wouldn't need that assistance. He'd have found a way to escape through his own power. (Or it wouldn't have happened to begin with, since she's just snatched up as easily as a donut left sitting on a plate.) Again, that's where the difference comes between the two.


I didn't say they were less important, but let's take a look at that logic versus reality for a moment. We have brawny women, we have women who could wield axes just as easily as the next man, we have women involved in melee sports (boxing, fencing, sword arts, martial arts, and so on).

Look through history: There are women who know how to protect themselves. Women weren't as defenseless as they were turned into through the history books. Many of them, even in the Middle Ages, did the exact same work as their male counterparts. You know who didn't? The upper class women. The overwhelming number of lower class women did much of the same work as their husbands; if they didn't, they wouldn't have survived. Women aren't overwhelmingly weaker. That's why this is annoying.

Also, it's a game. If you're gaining an audience that includes a lot of women (and maybe even some progressive men!), you probably should cater to them a bit more. Some of us girls like to play female characters and prefer melee skills to ranged ones. You've already alienated us when you've shown that the only thing we can do is stand back and shoot arrows at enemies or read books at them until they die.

luigi's mansion has our... i dunno how many games he had by then, let's go with 15-game hero, trapped in a painting and rendered completely and absolutely useless for the whole game, an example of peach being damsel'd, but where she still helps? all the paper mario's, she comunicates with mario and lets him know of what's up in the enemy base.

for that final fantasy example, i can give 5 final fantasies which DON'T adhere to the rule. and one of the funniest cases is FF13, where a female is the damsel in distress, and the hero is HER SISTER.
and that is what moves the story in most games, it's not "oh, my personal object got kidnapped", it's someone close to you, someone you care about. your sister in FF13, FF3 has no damsel at all, FF4 has rosa being kidnapped like nuts, but the hero isn't on it just to save rosa, but also kain, his partner, so he's not doing it to claim "the ball" back, he's in it for his love and his friendship. rydia falls off the boat and when she comes back she literally saves the main character.
FF5 has the princess kidnapped and brainwashed for the large amount of 5 minutes, it also has the hero fall down a hole he can't escape from, until his friendly pirate-queen ally shows up and teases him for leaving her behind before rescuing him.
FF6 has the main character be female, suffering from angsty issues, FF7 has the same thing and introduces tifa and yuffie, whi kick major ass. i haven't played any of the following FF's until 13, but in 12-2 penelo didn't get kidnapped at all for all the time i played.

so yeah, one game has a pure damsel in distress, how could them!

the issue is not about who loses the power, it's about WHY they lose it. look at FE radiant dawn and path of radiance. in path of radiance you play protecting the princess, she is quite literally a damsel in distress, but she's so because of the setting, she's a princess, not a warrior, your group is a group of warriors, the ones who do the fighting. at the very beginning, both your sister and her -male- friend get kidnapped, oh damsel in distress with a guy. but it's because it's the sister of the main character (and brother of a secondary) that you go for them.

then the second game comes and the now queen is able to kick major butt on that one.

what i'm shooting at is, at the very beginning of gaming, there wasn't enough memory to make a complicated plot, and the damsel in distress trope had been going strong since the middle ages. back then also the main demographic of gamers were men. so hey, what could they do back then? monster has kidnapped the princess of the kingdom (and as a princess, nobody expects her to know how to fight back, you know, princess) so let's have someone save her. (why a plumber of all things though... well, i'm sure it would sell better than a mushroom

also, a quick extra. when you go radical about anything, you can then complain about anything. a quick look at FF5, by half of the game your party consists of 3 women and one man. you can think "ok cool" and go on, you can think "oh hey, female power!" and go on, or you can think "of course! men love harem and that's why this is like this, and with a little child for god's sake! shame on you!"

The roots of this issue are pretty deep yet quite simple to comprehend once the proper research is done~

Considering the above, this video targets people who are likely viewing things on the surface and are only focusing on the fun of these games. Even if their subconscious tells them to view women in a more submissive manner, these folks tend to want nothing to do with the hatred they see in reality and associate the fantasy worlds they enter as enjoyable, regardless of the conflicts they present.

That being said, the subconscious is tapped into more strongly by subtle yet resonant frequencies of all sorts; assuming that this is being viewed as a problem to any extent whatsoever, shouldn't she just open a game studio with the extra money with games that have balanced roles or none at all (Such as puzzle and racing games)? I figure that such a solution is rather feasible due to the fact that she has enough support to get $144,000+ more than she orignally asked for.

Of course, creating a game with a happy tone, visceral themes, and an a loving perspective would address many issues simultaneously, including these ones...but that's just my opinion. :3

She gathered ~$150k alone on kickstarter for this right?

Because that sounds like a huge waste of money.

She gathered ~$150k alone on kickstarter for this right?

Because that sounds like a huge waste of money.

Now, is this the fault of the Kickstarters or her?

The point that's being made isn't that the idea itself (supporting characters being helpless) is bad, it's that women in video games are almost always put in this position. When you claim that "Mario is helpless," it's not true; he's still doing something. What's problematic is that all of the characters who are helpless and cannot do anything to change their situation are overwhelmingly female

Except all the examples she gave from nintendo don't even follow that logic outside of the most barebones storylines. She picks the mario platformers - the ones that have no plot at all and uses them as examples. Honestly, assuming that peach "does nothing" while captured is just that: an assumption, you never see nor hear from her in the platformers aside from the very beginning or very end.
And this is completely disregarding the mario rpgs, the only games which really have a plot where you see that peach deliberately goes out of her way to be anything BUT a damsel in distress.

Paper Mario: She sends mario messages and items through playable sections where she sneaks around the castle, including information on how to beat otherwise invicible bosses (Tubba Blubba). She also makes the final boss beatable.
Thousand year door: Takes peachs gameplay in a similar method, with her repeatedly contacting mario and letting him know of the villians plans found out through her playable sections.
Super Paper Mario had her playable.
Mario And Luigi Super star saga: Peach actively predict the bad guys attempt to kidnap her and come up with a plan to prevent it before it could even happen, where the mario bros (And everyone else) don't even realise she had duped everyone until a good halfway through the game.
I can't remember what happens in Partners in time, but I doubt they broke the chain and made peach useless.
In Bowsers inside story she uses her same power from Paper mario to brutually weaken bowser, though admittedly I think she does get kidnapped partway through. Can't remember if she did anything special after that.

Sticker star has no plot whatsoever, like the platformers, so you have no idea what peach is doing.
Supporting the idea that peach is doing something even in the platformers is that in mario Galaxy 1/2, she is somehow managing to obtain 1up mushrooms throughout the entire game(s) and sending them to mario, despite being "captured", clearly she is doing SOMETHING to get them, and sneak them out of bowsers hideouts.

And don't get me started on the fallacies of her using zelda as a example of a damsel in distress.

And while I can think of one game where a male character is shown in this light (Mario is Missing)

Then you're not trying hard enough. Even just picking from Mario Games
Mario 64 DS the same trap that bowser used to capture Peach actively works on Mario, Luigi and Wario too, rendering them helpless and unable to do anything until Yoshi turns up to save them.
Luigis mansion and Super Princess peach have Mario and Mario & Luigi respectively helpless and unable to escape the traps they get caught in.
Luigi repeatedly throughout the Mario & Luigi games gets caught in traps and Mario has to save him.
Baby Luigi in the two yoshis island games, where Mario& Yoshi has to save him in the first, and several other babies including baby peach have to save him in the second.

You know who didn't? The upper class women. The overwhelming number of lower class women did much of the same work as their husbands; if they didn't, they wouldn't have survived. Women aren't overwhelmingly weaker. That's why this is annoying.

Surely this line of logic supports the nintendo games then? In Mario/Zelda games it's always have the lower class male character (Plumber or Farmhand/Solider/other menial labourer for various Links) saving a princess or other upper class person.

Now, is this the fault of the Kickstarters or her?

I say she uses the money for actually promoting her fucking agenda (regardless of whether it's "right" or not, she believes in it). Use the money she actually needed (AKA, the 6000 she initially asked for), and use the rest to do more than make videos.

Luigi repeatedly throughout the Mario & Luigi games gets caught in traps and Luigi has to save him.

Ironically this ACTUALLY happens in Mario Galaxy. Typo included. I don't care if you edited it already, I'M HALF NINJA, remember?