KMS 1.2.144 - Skill Revamp, Forest, Halloween

That's nonsensical. Legends exist to tell the back story of the Black Mage.
To recap for those who haven't been paying attention, the Legends were the original squad that set out to destroy the Black Mage.
AND THEY FAILED!

At the end of the day, plot is a completely arbitrary reason to so heavily break the balance of the game.


Yes. You're desperately trying to downplay the amount of support Evans provide as justification for their ridiculous DPS.


Wow. I hadn't even noticed that.
How moronic.

On the up side, that should mean that they will indeed keep tweaking the class.
I'm just shocked that that made it into the official release.

I'm utterly convinced that Battlemages (or maybe Resistance-Demonslayer) are becoming the new Pirates.
Nexon has no clue what to do with them.
Makes me really wish they had laid off on creating so many classes.
They have a lot of good ideas, but not enough to spread so thin.

Good this time you didn't resort to slipping acid to see what's not there

I said my stance on the matter, and that's the end of that. No amount of arguing can get through to me so I don't see why you bothered

Legends sealed the Black Mage as well if I'm not mistaken, that's defeating him temporarily; much like what Link does to Ganondorf every Zelda game. I don't see why I'm not aallowed to think the way I do just because you don't see it that way. O.o

Good this time you didn't resort to slipping acid to see what's not there

Ad hominem is never a suitable replacement for having something worth saying...

I said my stance on the matter, and that's the end of that. No amount of arguing can get through to me so I don't see why you bothered

...which you clearly don't have.
But throw some more smilies in there. That'll fix everything.

Legends sealed the Black Mage as well if I'm not mistaken, that's defeating him temporarily; much like what Link does to Ganondorf every Zelda game. I don't see why I'm not aallowed to think the way I do just because you don't see it that way. O.o

I didn't say "defeat", I said "destroy". They failed to destroy him while he managed to kill at least one and seal the rest.

Oh, and...
- The Legend of Zelda
- A Link to the Past
- Wind Waker
- Twilight Princess
- Oracle of Ages/Seasons

Those are the games in which Ganon appears and is killed. Dead.

- Ocarina of Time
- Four Swords Adventures

Those are the games in which Ganon is sealed.
That's not "every game" nor is it even close.

You can think however you want, but, by posting it on a forum meant for discussion, you're consenting for it to be refuted.
If you don't want your preconceived notions shaken, keep them to yourself.

Oh, and...
- The Legend of Zelda
- A Link to the Past
- Wind Waker
- Twilight Princess
- Oracle of Ages/Seasons

Those are the games in which Ganon appears and is killed. Dead.

- Ocarina of Time
- Four Swords Adventures

Those are the games in which Ganon is sealed.
That's not "every game" nor is it even close.

Too bad you are wrong...

It is long known that Ganon is defeated but never truly destroyed. Hell, the story in Twilight Princess shows exactly how it works. His body is destroyed but his essence lives on. Thus, he can be resurrected by any number of means. His essence is part of the triforce.

But this is not a place to argue these points.

Too bad you are wrong...

It is long known that Ganon is defeated but never truly destroyed. Hell, the story in Twilight Princess shows exactly how it works. His body is destroyed but his essence lives on. Thus, he can be resurrected by any number of means. His essence is part of the triforce.

But this is not a place to argue these points.

False.
Here's a little tip: don't argue Zelda with me.

His ability to be resurrected has nothing to do with the Triforce.
Several characters in that series have been brought back from the dead.
Many characters in that series have their bodies destroyed yet their essence lives on. That's what that whole "ghost" thing is all about.

PS. Classy ladies don't argue a subject then say this is no place to argue that subject. Less hypocrisy, please.

PPS. Don't claim Ganon's essence is part of the Triforce unless you can prove that as such as well as explain why that applies to him alone, not any other person who has wielded it.

PPPS. He is never killed in Twilight Princess prior to the end of the game, so I'm not sure how you believe that game helps you.

Ad hominem is never a suitable replacement for having something worth saying...


...which you clearly don't have.
But throw some more smilies in there. That'll fix everything.


I didn't say "defeat", I said "destroy". They failed to destroy him while he managed to kill at least one and seal the rest.

Oh, and...
- The Legend of Zelda
- A Link to the Past
- Wind Waker
- Twilight Princess
- Oracle of Ages/Seasons

Those are the games in which Ganon appears and is killed. Dead.

- Ocarina of Time
- Four Swords Adventures

Those are the games in which Ganon is sealed.
That's not "every game" nor is it even close.

You can think however you want, but, by posting it on a forum meant for discussion, you're consenting for it to be refuted.
If you don't want your preconceived notions shaken, keep them to yourself.

Destroy= to put an end to; extinguish.
Defeat= to eliminate
Extinguish can refer to eliminate

Well, what do we have here; words describing the same thing when used in a similar context. Good job Viaje.

As for Wind Waker, he is sealed in a stone underneath the sea. Elaborate how that is destroyed, sounds awfully like sealed in something. Sure a sword is in his head, but this is Nintendo.

As for everything else;
Your very opinionated and harsh when your expressing your own side of things. You also have this "I am right mentality" which doesn't seem to shatter, ever. With those stone-set pieces in place for you, you can't really be open to discussion. Open your mind up and try to understand the other person's perspective and perhaps, just maybe you'll actually be worthwhile to talk to. Until then, I'll pretend your a fictional bigot whose only pride in life is being constantly right. Perhaps it's the way you word your sentences and lack of people skills from what I observed on Southperry, but when other people are where you are in an opposite viewpoint of mine; It doesn't get heated this quickly and seems to present an understanding in the 'discussion'. O.o

I'm not sensing any understanding flowing here from my side or your side, it's just Viaje is right and you are wrong; get used to it. Are you proud of appearing like this?

Enjoying the smileys are we?

I've wanted Evan buffs for a long time, and even I will admit, they went too far. They are going to need to buff every other mage tremendously just for them to be slightly weaker than we are on kMS, currently.

The main goal of Evan is, like others said, the buffs. We have a lot more support skills and buffs than other mages and are much more useful in party/boss play than any other mage. We already make Bishops obsolete because we have res, and a better one at that...when this comes, we will be better than all of the other mages combined! I'm not OK with that; we should be a little bit stronger than the others since it's a Legend class, AND it uses CS skillbooks, I will agree with that, but not to this extent. And, did you see the video showing off the new skill we get? It's a sort of glide like DS gets, but it's incredibly fast and you can attack right out of the animation before you have even landed. Mobility was our only real issue and that fixes that.

False.

That really depends on Zelda's chronology. If A Link to the Past (as suggested by the name) is the final game in the child timeline of the Legend of Zelda series, that would make sense.

Either way, it's true that Ganon is killed in multiple games, but his minions (Dark Link, Twinrova, etc.) resurrect him (which is also the basis of Zelda II :The Adventure of Link).


ANYWHO... I wish I could get KMS working on this laptop again. I kind of want to try out some of these class changes. :X It's very tempting for me to redownload the game, but it's kind of screwed up for me to the point that it's pointless to try. Hackshield doesn't even load for KMS for me. >_>

Edit : That video of the Evan soloing Zakum is just plain ridiculous... ._. That speed...

I've wanted Evan buffs for a long time, and even I will admit, they went too far. They are going to need to buff every other mage tremendously just for them to be slightly weaker than we are on kMS, currently.

The main goal of Evan is, like others said, the buffs. We have a lot more support skills and buffs than other mages and are much more useful in party/boss play than any other mage. We already make Bishops obsolete because we have res, and a better one at that...when this comes, we will be better than all of the other mages combined! I'm not OK with that; we should be a little bit stronger than the others since it's a Legend class, AND it uses CS skillbooks, I will agree with that, but not to this extent. And, did you see the video showing off the new skill we get? It's a sort of glide like DS gets, but it's incredibly fast and you can attack right out of the animation before you have even landed. Mobility was our only real issue and that fixes that.

Funny how it takes four transportation skills to fix an Evan's mobility whereas some classes have just one..lol

False.
Here's a little tip: don't argue Zelda with me.

His ability to be resurrected has nothing to do with the Triforce.
Several characters in that series have been brought back from the dead.
Many characters in that series have their bodies destroyed yet their essence lives on. That's what that whole "ghost" thing is all about.

PS. Classy ladies don't argue a subject then say this is no place to argue that subject. Less hypocrisy, please.

PPS. Don't claim Ganon's essence is part of the Triforce unless you can prove that as such as well as explain why that applies to him alone, not any other person who has wielded it.

PPPS. He is never killed in Twilight Princess prior to the end of the game, so I'm not sure how you believe that game helps you.

You are forgetting that according the master himself, Mr Shigeru Miyamoto, the story of Ocarina of Time overrides the story of LTTP. When the triforce split in OOT (which happens when Ganon walks into the temple after Link opens the door), the essence of the triforce was cast into Ganon, The hero of time, and Zelda. The continual linage of the essence of the triforce was established. The hero of time, the royal princess, and ganon are forever part of the essence of the triforce from that point on.

May I also remind you that it was Ganon who initiated the entirety of the story of Twilight Princess. Ganon's essence, in need of a host body sine it was finally strong enough to be reincarnated, found Zant to inhabit.

Don't argue Zelda with you? I was working for Nintendo as a game counselor right after Zelda was initially released in 1986. Unless you have the same internal knowledge, You don't even qualify as a peer. However, Sensei Miyamoto will always have the final word.

Destroy= to put an end to; extinguish.
Defeat= to eliminate
Extinguish can refer to eliminate

Irrelevant. I said that the Legends failed to destroy the Black Mage and was correct in that.
If you wish to use the definition of defeat that is synonymous with destroy, then your statement that they temporarily defeated him is false. They didn't temporarily destroy him.

Well, what do we have here; words describing the same thing when used in a similar context. Good job Viaje.

Pulled out of context in a way that does not follow its actual use in the discussion. Good job, Jerry-Boyle.

As for Wind Waker, he is sealed in a stone underneath the sea. Elaborate how that is destroyed, sounds awfully like sealed in something. Sure a sword is in his head, but this is Nintendo.

"There was no blood, and he turned to stone, and died. They took all that into account." - Nate Bihldorff, senior localization manager and producer of Nintendo Treehouse.

Dead.

As for everything else;
Your very opinionated and harsh when your expressing your own side of things. You also have this "I am right mentality" which doesn't seem to shatter, ever. With those stone-set pieces in place for you, you can't really be open to discussion. Open your mind up and try to understand the other person's perspective and perhaps, just maybe you'll actually be worthwhile to talk to. Until then, I'll pretend your a fictional bigot whose only pride in life is being constantly right. Perhaps it's the way you word your sentences and lack of people skills, but when other people are where you are; It doesn't get heated this quickly and seems to present an understanding in the 'discussion'. O.o

It has nothing to do with my being right or my being wrong. It's not about any inflation of my personal ego.
It has everything to do with my preference for facts over personal fluff.
I'm open to discussion, but I'm not open to accepting bullpomegranate that is in direct contradiction with established truths.
For example, if someone were to say that I'm not accessing this website via the internet, it wouldn't be a matter of personal pride for me to correct them.

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a damn whether or not you personally prefer to communicate with me.

With you there is no understanding flowing here, it's just Viaje is right and you are wrong; get used to it. Are you proud of appearing like this?

It's not a matter of pride.

Speaking of which, who's trying to read between the lines now? Certainly not myself.

I've wanted Evan buffs for a long time, and even I will admit, they went too far. They are going to need to buff every other mage tremendously just for them to be slightly weaker than we are on kMS, currently.

The main goal of Evan is, like others said, the buffs. We have a lot more support skills and buffs than other mages and are much more useful in party/boss play than any other mage. We already make Bishops obsolete because we have res, and a better one at that...when this comes, we will be better than all of the other mages combined! I'm not OK with that; we should be a little bit stronger than the others since it's a Legend class, AND it uses CS skillbooks, I will agree with that, but not to this extent. And, did you see the video showing off the new skill we get? It's a sort of glide like DS gets, but it's incredibly fast and you can attack right out of the animation before you have even landed. Mobility was our only real issue and that fixes that.

Based on the tables Joe has created, I don't actually think Evans are that over-done damage-wise.
The true problems are that some mages *coughBishopsBattlemagescough* are so far behind and, as you said, that Evans get so many buffs to go along with their damage.

That really depends on Zelda's chronology. If A Link to the Past (as suggested by the name) is the final game in the child timeline of the Legend of Zelda series, that would make sense

True enough. But chances are the Oracles are meant to take place after ALttP, but, as you said, that's debatable.

Edit : That video of the Evan soloing Zakum is just plain ridiculous... ._. That speed...

Warriors either need some bad-ass screen-crossing attacks like that or some deadly 1v1 in this next patch...

So its possible - and internally consistent - that Ganon could've been destroyed, never to return, twice in the existing Zelda chronology since there are two timelines. They'd have to be the "last" games in each of the timelines.

But this doesn't preclude Nintendo from making a game in the future that create the possibility of a third timeline which one of the existing games is said to follow chronologically. But yeah, he can only actually have been destroyed if he doesn't appear later in the chronology. Destroy is actually a stronger word than kill since they've already introduced the possibility of resurrection.

Also, stop dirtying Zelda by comparing it to the filth Nexon passes off as plot. It's made up at the last minute by an intern to make sure you keep buying NX.

Also, stop dirtying Zelda by comparing it to the filth Nexon passes off as plot.

Very, very much THIS.

May I also remind you that it was Ganon who initiated the entirety of the story of Twilight Princess. Ganon's essence, in need of a host body sine it was finally strong enough to be reincarnated, found Zant to inhabit.

Ganondorf never lost his body in Twilight Princess. He was banished to the "Twilight Realm" (Honestly, I think they used the Twilight Realm thing as a way of setting up a precursor to Ganon's creation of the Dark World, but that's just speculation). He used Zant to escape the Twilight Realm and begin taking over Hyrule. It was more like Zant was his right-hand-man that he used for his own purpose.


Edit : I agree with the said above statement. Zelda doesn't deserve to be in the same category as Nexon in any form (by this, I mean don't punish Zelda, not that Nexon is better).

Ganondorf never lost his body in Twilight Princess. He was banished to the "Twilight Realm" (Honestly, I think they used the Twilight Realm thing as a way of setting up a precursor to Ganon's creation of the Dark World, but that's just speculation). He used Zant to escape the Twilight Realm and begin taking over Hyrule. It was more like Zant was his right-hand-man that he used for his own purpose.

It's a little deeper than that, I feel. More like Voldemort and Professor Quiril in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (two souls inhabiting one body). Zant carried the essence of ganon inside him. That's what happens in the movie cut scene just before you fight Zant.

You are forgetting that according the master himself, Mr Shigeru Miyamoto, the story of Ocarina of Time overrides the story of LTTP.

Hold on right there. Are you calling Miyamoto the master of Zelda's story?
Miyamoto couldn't give less of a pomegranate about the story! He's all about gameplay!
Read an interview, any interview.

Want to know who decided to start connecting the games? Aonuma, not Miyamoto!

Not that I understand what you mean to imply by OoT overriding ALttP anyway.

When the triforce split in OOT (which happens when Ganon walks into the temple after Link opens the door), the essence of the triforce was cast into Ganon, The hero of time, and Zelda. The continual linage of the essence of the triforce was established. The hero of time, the royal princess, and ganon are forever part of the essence of the triforce from that point on.

Cite a source or GTFO.

May I also remind you that it was Ganon who initiated the entirety of the story of Twilight Princess. Ganon's essence, in need of a host body sine it was finally strong enough to be reincarnated, found Zant to inhabit.

Yeah, Ganon never lost his body in Twilight Princess nor did he ever possess Zant.

Don't argue Zelda with you? I was working for Nintendo as a game counselor right after Zelda was initially released in 1986. Unless you have the same internal knowledge, You don't even qualify as a peer. However, Sensei Miyamoto will always have the final word.

"Being a janitor at NASA doesn't mean you're a rocket scientist any more than 'working at an ISP' makes you a security, or technology, expert."

Having worked at Nintendo before story was even an issue for the series makes you no more reputable than anyone else.
Being able to tell someone where to find the key in dungeon #3 doesn't make you an expert on the intricacies of a game's history.

Edit : I agree with the said above statement. Zelda doesn't deserve to be in the same category as Nexon in any form (by this, I mean don't punish Zelda, not that Nexon is better).

I agree, and suggest we blame Jerry-Boyle for pretending it does.

Having worked at Nintendo before story was even an issue for the series makes you no more reputable than anyone else.

Who says I left?

Cite a source or GTFO.

*Points to the game*
lolol

I'm fairly certain Miyamoto knows what he's talking about. He did start the Zelda franchise out of his own mind, from his own experiences with his exploration of around his home town, Kyoto, Japan.

Actually, the only game in which Link starts out with the Triforce is Twilight Princess. That kind of (KIND OF, not necessarily true) kills the notion of them being tied to the Triforce. It's more like they're divine chosen ones lead to eternal conflict over the balance of good and evil.

Actually, the only game in which Link starts out with the Triforce is Twilight Princess.

In Zelda II, he starts out with Power and Wisdom and seeks the third part.

In Zelda II, he starts out with Power and Wisdom and seeks the third part.

That's kind of different, though, since Zelda II is a continuation of the original Legend of Zelda game. By start off, I mean born with.

Quit it with the zelda discussion. For f'ucks sake.