Empress killable legitimately

I wouldn't say it's about competition, rather the significance of your accomplishment being questioned. What's the point of feeling accomplished over something easily achieved?

Because it's not easy for me?

I was proud of myself the first time I solo'ed regular Zakum, even though countless people had done it before me, legitimately or otherwise, many of them at lower levels and with faster times. So? It was a first for me and I felt good about it. Didn't care in the least whether other people considered it an accomplishment or not.

And I treat others the same. I congratulate anyone who announces whatever they see as an accomplishment: completing a quest, killing a boss, reaching a certain damage range, leveling up... So what if it's been done a million times before? It's still a milestone.

Believe me, you enjoy any game a lot more if you don't keep looking in the other kids' plates.

That's what I was really trying to say. I'm not discrediting you for your own accomplishment, I made some myself. But this to me seems silly to even contemplate legitimacy or not as it's become "EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF", type of game. Yes I did generalize but isn't it worse I can do it in confidence because of the state of the game?

I honestly believe that it is an emotional waste to determine the value of other peoples accomplishments based on something so petty considering it's become the social norm. I left the game because said accomplishments are underminded and lose their prestige, work no longer being a valuable factor.

So you're saying you left because you cared what other people thought...or lack thereof.

I'll leave it at this since I have places to go, but I think a majority of people would say that regardless if you consider it "legit", beating empress without the use of a third party program would be quite the feat to accomplish, whether it be to brag about publicly, or to have self gratification.

Because it's not easy for me?

I was proud of myself the first time I solo'ed regular Zakum, even though countless people had done it before me, legitimately or otherwise, many of them at lower levels and with faster times. So? It was a first for me and I felt good about it. Didn't care in the least whether other people considered it an accomplishment or not.

And I treat others the same. I congratulate anyone who announces whatever they see as an accomplishment: completing a quest, killing a boss, reaching a certain damage range, leveling up... So what if it's been done a million times before? It's still a milestone.

Believe me, you enjoy any game a lot more if you don't keep looking in the other kids' plates.

I like breaking milestones that are difficult to break. Having players able to break the same milestone by cheating is rubbing salt in the wounds. If your perspective was of the general public do you believe we would be in this scenario, this discussion?

So you're saying you left because you cared what other people thought...or lack thereof.

I'll leave it at this since I have places to go, but I think a majority of people would say that regardless if you consider it "legit", beating empress without the use of a third party program would be quite the feat to accomplish, whether it be to brag about publicly, or to have self gratification.

If you want the full reason why I left is because playing the game become more of a chore than fun. Players being able to determine when I can and cannot play, copious amounts of NX just to reach the games intended standard, and no matter how hard you tried, you're getting screwed by the company or the hackers. I firmly believe all gms players are masochists.

You have to put a ; after my name for the function to work. It doesn't specifically matter to me, I find it silly people are trying to determine legitimacy when the bottom line is, as you've stated in the past, it's neigh impossible to hold that title. As Icephoenix as said, it's more of a grayscale, but I digress, I think in this case it's black and white. Not because I feel like any other player is better than the other, just simply because it's a silly debate to begin with considering the common circumstances.

I honestly believe that it is an emotional waste to determine the value of other peoples accomplishments based on something so petty considering it's become the social norm. I left the game because said accomplishments are underminded and lose their prestige, work no longer being a valuable factor.

Again, you're stating opinions as well as being a hypocrite because you're still displaying elitism when you complained about it earlier. The standard goes both ways. Also to save space, i'll just edit. What SaptaZapta said is UTTERLY brilliant, if you quit comparing and just enjoy the game, you probably would have enjoyed it more. Now please don't ruin other people's experiences because you left?

Again, you're stating opinions as well as being a hypocrite because you're still displaying elitism when you complained about it earlier. The standard goes both ways

Of course I'm stating opinions, but I can state facts about the game as well.

Your argument has no ground, as usual

I'm going to edit this retardation once and for all.

Please enlighten me with a fact about the game then. I'm also not gonna fall into your petty trap of pomegranate talking, but keep trying to drag me down. My argument actually is well grounded considering I'm echoing icephoenix and SaptaZapta. You care to insult them as well? Didn't think so, its pretty clear that SP is biased against me for my opinions. Although I'd better not react when I get baited into garbage by a sour grapes person that quit long ago

Look man, I'll make it real simple for you because obviously you have some reading comprehension problems. You are not God, nor Jesus Christ. You don't decide what's fun and what isn't fun for people, and you don't decide what's legit or not because that varies between people. People don't ask KhainiWest what to do for fun and if it's ok to be proud of this accomplishment. What you are exhibiting by believing such things is TEXTBOOK elitism. Essentially you are saying "I'm too good for that tainted and illegit game and anyone that has fun is illegit and all their accomplishments are worthless. You are being a hypocrite. Fin and have a nice day.

We're classifying players now as illegitimate for buying duped gear. Okay then, players play with the equipment and items that is available to them. I've said it in other threads on this forum, I'd welcome Nexon to wipe out every duped gear/item out there, even if it means deleting my own pomegranate. But I will not spend MORE (from double to 20 times more) just because it's more right, that is ridiculous . I never duped pomegranate myself before but did I buy gear or scrolls? Probably.

With the NX rate being 1:60 average, it would be silly to tell someone, go spend 200k NX on cubes and try to get the same stat potential as someone who is selling it for 125k NX just because it is more "legitimate" to spend more than to buy it outright for less.

Let's not even stop there, how about we play super legitimate and instead of buying protection scrolls at 60m each or white scrolls for 35m each, let's wait for Nexon to release Pam Songs at 15k NX each and Shielding Wards at 11k NX each. Um no, maybe had this duping pomegranate never happen (the 10 or so major periods the past 2 years), NX rate would probably be around 1:20 right now and I'm sure at that rate, it would be a lot more balanced to play as a super legit, and the ones who bought illegitimate gear would still be able to fund themselves well enough.

When Windia killed Pink Bean and Chaos Horntail for the first time, we had lots of players questioning the legitimacy of our gear (it was during the enhance hack thing), it is what it is, people are allowed to come up with their own conclusions of how we did it but their opinions didn't take away the accomplishment we felt after failing to kill Pink Bean 3 times (CHT was done on our first try). No one that I knew of had that type of gear.

Because it's not easy for me?

I was proud of myself the first time I solo'ed regular Zakum, even though countless people had done it before me, legitimately or otherwise, many of them at lower levels and with faster times. So? It was a first for me and I felt good about it. Didn't care in the least whether other people considered it an accomplishment or not.

And I treat others the same. I congratulate anyone who announces whatever they see as an accomplishment: completing a quest, killing a boss, reaching a certain damage range, leveling up... So what if it's been done a million times before? It's still a milestone.

Believe me, you enjoy any game a lot more if you don't keep looking in the other kids' plates.

pretty much this, and what icephoenix and pink bean i think it was? said, there's more than one definition of legit at this point khainiwest, i won't lie and disagree that the state of the game is sad, that dupers and hackers can do as they please and that the majority of GMS will follow them like cattle and buy what they offer without a second thought.

that is indeed sad, but it has nothing to do with how i enjoy the game, and what i consider an achievement for myself, case in point, the achievement thread, to some getting 50k is a range to be proud of, i know it was to me, others are aiming for more now, aiming to kill stuff faster, become better at dojo.

trying to beat the hackers will only give you despair, trying to beat yourself with friends and such is how to make the game real fun.

as for empress, you're right, beating it legitly in every term of the word is nigh impossible without funding the company insane amounts, which i'm sure not even the most hardcore legits of this site agree with. as long as the killing is legit by icephoenix's standards, then it's legit to her, and an achievement. if people disagree with the standards she chose (saying she did manage to slay empress under her definition of "legit") then they're free (and encouraged, mind you) to try it under their own definition of legit. dunno about her, but i know i'd take my hats off if i was one-upped.

At this point why does it matter if it's legitimate or not? Anyone who kills empress will have some form of dupe equip anyway.

Because there are a few of us who would like the satisfaction of being able to say we did it. Legitly.

This is a clear contradiction to what I'm arguing in the first place. You want to be able to advertise you accomplished something in a way that required more work. Why? Like every other person in the world you want recognition of your accomplishments.

Believe me, you enjoy any game a lot more if you don't keep looking in the other kids' plates.

Yet this whole thread is about "the other kid's plate". It doesn't matter how it goes down, the bottom line is most of the hiarchy in maple uses duped equipment, they use methods they themselves consider legitimate because of inconvienence, for the name of efficiency. That doesn't represent everyone, but I would say that the representation is so small on the opposite foot it shouldn't even be considered. It isn't a personal question of what is legitimate and what is not, it's pretty goddam obvious if you use items produced by hackers that are impossible to accomplish without going outside the games mean's, rather improbable, you aren't legitimate.

Disregarding this whole "what is legit" argument, it's pretty reasonable to feel "cheated" when it's exactly what it is. You get the short end of the stick for being reasonable competent and fair, by not only the hackers, who ostrasize you, even seek out to f`uck with you, but by the very company that you play under! That's absolutely ridiculous, when was the last event that benefited legit's more than the hackers that they are so adament to get rid of. There's somethign called "morale", maple lost it ages ago.

Please enlighten me with a fact about the game then.

Hacker's control it, it's dumb to claim legitimacy vs illegitimacy when by just basic common sense it's going to be an illegitimate kill.

I'm also not gonna fall into your petty trap of pomegranate talking, but keep trying to drag me down.

You just did, with the following paragraph posted by you. Dumb.

My argument actually is well grounded considering I'm echoing icephoenix and SaptaZapta.

The word is reinforcing and as you will see in this post, is wrong. Though I guess the only time you could have a legitimate opinion is when you're acting as a Parrot. Fair enough.

You care to insult them as well? Didn't think so, its pretty clear that SP is biased against me for my opinions. Although I'd better not react when I get baited into garbage by a sour grapes person that quit long ago

What kind of derogatory is "sour grapes". I stated a statement, I'm not sour about this. If anything I'm empathetic towards anyone that play's nowadays because you simply can't win, company or community, they both f`uck you with a cactus.

Look man, I'll make it real simple for you because obviously you have some reading comprehension problems. You are not God, or Jesus Christ. You don't decide what's fun and what isn't fun for people, and you don't decide what's legit or not because that varies between people. People don't ask KhainiWest what to do for fun and if it's ok to be proud of this accomplishment. What you are exhibiting by believing such things is TEXTBOOK elitism. Essentially you are saying "I'm too good for that tainted and illegit game and anyone that has fun is illegit and all their accomplishments are worthless. You are being a hypocrite. Fin and have a nice day.

You say I have reading comprehension problems but no one is dictating "entertainment" value, it's personal accomplishment vs recognizition if anything.
I guess it's me I should be making it more simple for you? I apologize. Well actually I guess that's the reaction into jumping onto a conversation with assumptions up the ass. Not really outside your typical responses though.

So I'm making assumptions although all my responses have been quoting you? God, thats brilliant! I should throw out accusations like that when I don't have any idea how to counter any of your points. Wait, seems to me like I've got a pretty good answer for anything and everything you've said, and you're the one that resorted to talking pomegranate and calling me stupid. Um................... well, nevermind.

P.S. Sour grapes isn's derogatory and it isn't meant to be. <3

So I'm making assumptions although all my responses have been quoting you? God, thats brilliant! I should throw out accusations like that when I don't have any idea how to counter any of your points. Wait, seems to me like I've got a pretty good answer for anything and everything you've said, and you're the one that resorted to talking pomegranate and calling me stupid. Um................... well, nevermind.

P.S. Sour grapes isn's derogatory and it isn't meant to be.

Okay, dunno why that didn't go through right, retyping;

I could quote you and talk about something irrelevant*, quoting me doesn't change anything. Then you go on about how you won't be "drug down" yet contradict in very same post. That's stupid.

Then you don't even know what I'm debating about, that or you lack any form of vocabulary to understand entertainment is not being questioned or dictated by me, you have no point's, do you know why? Neither of the real debators are posting.

F`ucking lol'd.

Also, if you're so disheartened with this game, why not just leave Southperry? We sure don't need your sympathy and it seems like it would really help with your blood pressure and your chapped backside <3 In other words, thanks for your concern but no thanks. I still have fun with my friends killing PB and empress summons for equips and to help each other get geared. SaptaZapta still has fun doing her own thing. We really don't need concern or input from you in the slightest <3

So what is relevant? Seems to me like you're saying that doing anything in this game is just illegit and pointless, which isn't true. Sapta gave examples of her doing things legitly and enjoying her accomplishments. Just because you believe the game is broken, doesn't mean it is. Your opinion is just that, an opinion

Thats also clever of you to claim me irrelevant and say that neither of the real debators are posting. You know why you're discrediting me? You have no answer to my points and you are losing this debate to me horribly. Thats the truth, not an opinion

Also, if you're so disheartened with this game, why not just leave Southperry? We sure don't need your sympathy and it seems like it would really help with your blood pressure and your chapped backside

http://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?f=9055

Yeah all about maplestory right?

pretty much this, and what icephoenix and pink bean i think it was? said, there's more than one definition of legit at this point khainiwest, i won't lie and disagree that the state of the game is sad, that dupers and hackers can do as they please and that the majority of GMS will follow them like cattle and buy what they offer without a second thought.

that is indeed sad, but it has nothing to do with how i enjoy the game, and what i consider an achievement for myself, case in point, the achievement thread, to some getting 50k is a range to be proud of, i know it was to me, others are aiming for more now, aiming to kill stuff faster, become better at dojo.

trying to beat the hackers will only give you despair, trying to beat yourself with friends and such is how to make the game real fun.

as for empress, you're right, beating it legitly in every term of the word is nigh impossible without funding the company insane amounts, which i'm sure not even the most hardcore legits of this site agree with. as long as the killing is legit by icephoenix's standards, then it's legit to her, and an achievement. if people disagree with the standards she chose (saying she did manage to slay empress under her definition of "legit") then they're free (and encouraged, mind you) to try it under their own definition of legit. dunno about her, but i know i'd take my hats off if i was one-upped.

This. Just because someone else doesn't see it as an achievement doesn't mean it isn't an achievement. By constantly stating your opinion in such a way that you're trying to change their mind, it essentially says you don't consider what they're doing an achievement and their idea of an achievement is wrong. Let people have their fun because no one has any right to take their fun away.

For example, I collect figurines. If I collect all of these certain ones to complete a set, I'll be really happy and consider it a personal achievement. However someone could say it's a waste of time and money. If they keep constantly saying that to me, then they're belittling what I'm doing and trying to get me to stop. They have no right to do so just like I have no right to tell them to change their personal hobbies either that I may find a waste of time.

Exactly what Kaasoljoyyx just said. I'm sure you'll just agree to disagree with him while you bash me and say that I have no right to debate though right? If you are SO DISHEARTENED by GMS and by the community that plays, why not just leave? Overall you'll feel better.

This. Just because someone else doesn't see it as an achievement doesn't mean it isn't an achievement. By constantly stating your opinion in such a way that you're trying to change their mind, it essentially says you don't consider what they're doing an achievement and their idea of an achievement is wrong. Let people have their fun because no one has any right to take their fun away.

For example, I collect figurines. If I collect all of these certain ones to complete a set, I'll be really happy and consider it a personal achievement. However someone could say it's a waste of time and money. If they keep constantly saying that to me, then they're belittling what I'm doing and trying to get me to stop. They have no right to do so just like I have no right to tell them to change their personal hobbies either that I may find a waste of time.

UGH. PLEASE READ MY FIRST POST THEN READ ICEPHOENIX'S ORIGINAL ATTEMPT AT CONTRADICTION.

legitimacy matters because they want to say they did it. IT SHOULDNT MATTER IF ITS PERSONAL. Does anyone realize they are reinforcing my original statement x_x

Exactly what Kaasoljoyyx just said. I'm sure you'll just agree to disagree with him while you bash me and say that I have no right to debate though right? If you are SO DISHEARTENED by GMS and by the community that plays, why not just leave? Overall you'll feel better.

You can't formulate your own argument and leech off others. I guess it's a personality thing? Stop seeking sympathy it just distinguishes your credibility.

http://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?f=9055

Yeah all about maplestory right?

So again you're changing the subject because you don't have a valid counterpoint? Well played good sir

Sure legitimacy matters, but everyone has a different standard of legitimacy, so to say they did it no matter how they did it is STILL an accomplishment.

So again you're changing the subject because you don't have a valid counterpoint? Well played good sir

Sure legitimacy matters, but everyone has a different standard of legitimacy, so to say they did it no matter how they did it is STILL an accomplishment.

You're an idiot. Legitimately. You asked why not leave southperry? Because I contribute to the website, and it isn't dedicated to solely maplestory. Proof right above you, that's what you were asking for right? If not please clarify, based off the post I quoted how I "Changed the subject".

Also for those confused;

At this point why does it matter if it's legitimate or not? Anyone who kills empress will have some form of dupe equip anyway.

Because there are a few of us who would like the satisfaction of being able to say we did it. Legitly.

You want to be able to say "I made this accomplishment". That completely contradicts what everyone is preaching because a personal accomplishment is just that personal. So why does it matter if it was legit or illegitimate? It doesn't. That's the game, illegitimacy is more common, things like integrity are an archaic reminisence of what the game used to support.

So I ask you again, why does it matter either or? IT IS going to be dominated by hackers, you're a fool if you don't expect that. Saying "I did it legitly" just opens you to all forms of assault. Accomplishment? Fine, relevance? none.

But when did that become relevant? I thought we were discussing how you continuously discredit people's achievements and what they do for fun? I've been saying the same thing for 2 pages, you just keep bringing up irrelevant garbage and then calling me an idiot. You know why you do that? Because you're wrong and multiple people have proved you wrong. Your current contributions to Southperry are opinionated rants about how the game is broken and because you can't have fun, NOBODY ELSE BETTER HAVE FUN EITHER!

I also know a few guilds in Bello that stay away from duped gear and are beginning to organize to attempt empress. What if they kill it? They'd better not get any recognition because dupe exists and maplestory is run by hackers right? That's the premise of your whole argument. Read that again and realize how silly that is.