Do you feel Nexon exploits it's playerbase?

Your last discussion has nothing to do with this discussion. Don't bring it up here - it'll only cause messes, like the one you've made here.

Revenue has everything to do with it. That's what a company uses to expand their games' franchises/products.

Please refer that to him as it was him who decided to bring up the previous discussion. I was only pointing out his continued WoW obsession examples.

And no it doesn't, the reason being is because nexon doesn't focus on keeping players, it's entire business model is to refresh players. It doesn't give a sh`it about you after you forked over any amount of money, you just fullfilled their 20% revenue quota. You know where the resources are going into? Other games with the same purpose, that are more up to date and won't have to reconstruct, or advertising to keep players coming to at least try it.

Just because you couldn't figure out how to make mesos without hacking/spending real money, don't assume no one else can.

and like I said (a thousand times now), my problem with Nexon is hackers.... If I see hackers in dragon nest I'll leave knowing I haven't spent any money at all. If Dragon Nest gets to the point where it's extremely difficult to down bosses without spending money, then I'll figure out a way to get around it (like I always do). I play at the top levels of every game I play and I do it keeping my money in my pocket. I don't spend money on WoW and I don't spend money on dragon nest. Yah I'm a cheap mother fker but oh well.

Anyway, my opinion on the topic in summary - I don't feel Nexon "exploits" players. People spend money on the game of their own free will. I think they should be more subtle about how they go about making people want to spend money on the game.

The players exploit themselves. Nexon just provides the means.

Just because you couldn't figure out how to make mesos without hacking/spending real money, don't assume no one else can.

As any reputable merchanter will tell you it's about exploiting(exploit as collect now, sell later, or collect items previously to the event and sell the required resources) events. And lately unless they are glitched they are temporary items. Unless you can provide me another source of income?

...I'm curious of how you would spot a hacker as any hacks would be within private dungeons?

I played before they had 20 dungeons per channel

The players exploit themselves. Nexon just provides the means.

Smartest post on this thread.

Nexon isn't exploiting their customers if they was they would be forcing you to pay up but no its a free game, everything is free. MTS offers people to play this game without giving a cent to nexon. So how can that be exploiting?

Yes their customer service sucks balls.
Yes hackers run wild.
Yes they offer cash shop items that break the game.

But you don't have to buy them.. or spend real money on it. You can even quit. They aren't stopping you. In fact with this service they are making it easy for you.

Smartest post on this thread.

Nexon isn't exploiting their customers if they was they would be forcing you to pay up but no its a free game, everything is free. MTS offers people to play this game without giving a cent to nexon. So how can that be exploiting?

Yes their customer service sucks balls.
Yes hackers run wild.
Yes they offer cash shop items that break the game.

But you don't have to buy them.. or spend real money on it. You can even quit. They aren't stopping you. In fact with this service they are making it easy for you.

...How is blaming the customer for a hacking outbreak not exploiting? And mts used to be a dependable option but now it's just become a higher form of currency, considering 1k nx is equilavent to 100m roughly.

@Rusty

I'm referring to dragonnest.

...How is blaming the customer for a hacking outbreak not exploiting? And mts used to be a dependable option but now it's just become a higher form of currency, considering 1k nx is equilavent to 100m roughly.

@Rusty

I'm referring to dragonnest.

Either you or me has misinterpreted the question. The hacking outbreak isn't Nexon exploiting their service in fact it is hackers exploiting Nexon's weaknesses. Don't get me wrong I'm not sticking up for Nexon.

I'm just pointing out you cant say they are exploiting customers with cash shop items because that's how all companies operate..

Either you or me has misinterpreted the question. The hacking outbreak isn't Nexon exploiting their service in fact it is hackers exploiting Nexon's weaknesses. Don't get me wrong I'm not sticking up for Nexon.

I'm just pointing out you cant say they are exploiting customers with cash shop items because that's how all companies operate..

I read exploit as in using the customer to gain something, as in, using the customer as a face saver. I don't feel like they appreciate us and considers us all as fodder. They make decisions and updates that hurt or don't even concern the consumer. I would consider that exploitation in terms of what isn't heard isn't relevant, and they are in a soundproof room.

The issue with this is the people being exploited don't feel like they are. The issue isn't ARE you being exploited... It's "are you gullible enough to believe you aren't?" Believe anything you like, it doesn't change the truth and it sure as pineapple doesn't change the way this game is being run. In a year, or two, or 5, whenever it clicks for you, you'll be on the other side of the fence arguing with the newest drove of Nexons playerbase and pointing out the same things that people like Khaini have pointed out to you. This is a cyclical pomegranate storm, and because of that neither side will win.

...How is blaming the customer for a hacking outbreak not exploiting?

i really wouldnt associate the word "exploit" with a hacking situation. I don't at all agree with the use of the word exploit in the title of this thread because it lumps things that have nothing to do with the meaning behind the actual question. He wants to know if you think nexon's business strategy in terms of making money is unethical, not the ethics behind their PR reactions in high risk situations.

If you think they're still unethical, the important thing is that YOU see through their schemes and adjust as best you can to whatever situation YOU are in. Not what everyone else is in.

The players exploit themselves. Nexon just provides the means.

While not entirely apt, the best comparison I can think of is entrapment.
Nexon doesn't "just provide the means", but they also create the incentive.

Nexon isn't exploiting their customers if they was they would be forcing you to pay up but no its a free game, everything is free.

It's fake free. Basically, playing Maplestory without access to NX is like playing a demo.

I really wish people would stop using the phrase "no one is making you do it".
Exploitation has never, ever, ever required force.

MTS offers people to play this game without giving a cent to nexon. So how can that be exploiting?

Hai! Clearly you have no idea how MTS works.
The NX doesn't magically appear there.

The issue with this is the people being exploited don't feel like they are. The issue isn't ARE you being exploited... It's "are you gullible enough to believe you aren't?" Believe anything you like, it doesn't change the truth and it sure as pineapple doesn't change the way this game is being run. In a year, or two, or 5, whenever it clicks for you, you'll be on the other side of the fence arguing with the newest drove of Nexons playerbase and pointing out the same things that people like Khaini have pointed out to you. This is a cyclical pomegranate storm, and because of that neither side will win.

That's not it either. There's no exploitation when it comes to cash shop items. Like any other company.

1.They Offer you an item
2.Customer chooses to buy or not
3.Profit?

There's no trickery or deception involved just business. I don't even think it's unethical because there's always an option.. You don't need NX to play this game nor do you need it to beat high end bosses. Equipment can be merchanted and earnt, Wheels/Charms can be bought using MTS, Unlike runescape they is no restriction to certain maps and if they is there's always a way to earn it in game.

@KhainiWest

I do agree with that, they don't appreciate us (the customer) like they should yet I do not call that exploitation just bad customer service.

@Viaje

No your wrong nexon's fairies place nx in MTS for us!

 Spoiler

.. of fucking course i know how it works.I only said it was an option for those who don't choose to charge nx. I'm sure you understood what I meant you just needed to wear big boy boots i understand

While not entirely apt, the best comparison I can think of is entrapment.
Nexon doesn't "just provide the means", but they also create the incentive.

Entrapment could very easily be pinned on many many many aspects of business, or even life in general. Creating the incentive is indeed part of what they do, but they aren't at all to blame, because that's what we call marketing. Not to say the players individually can do anything about what they decide to do, but they keep the cycle going even if they don't agree with it because they want the benefits despite having the willpower to back away. Nexon's profits prove that.

In Dragon Nest, I probably won't be able to see it unless they speed hack in my party or during PvP. Unless people are duping godly items then I'm not sure how hacking would effect me in that game anyway. The best drops are given randomly as a reward at the end of a dungeon. Farming the mobs doesn't even yield anything spectacular (or at all...) 90% of the time. When I start getting into PvP on my merc @LvL32, the only hacking that would effect me is someone speed hacking. The gear doesn't matter because everyone's gear is normalized so even if they had hacked gear it wouldn't even make a difference.

As for the rest of the conversation going on, I agree that "exploit" wasn't a good choice of a word for the title of the thread. If anything people are the ones exploiting the holes in the game via duping and such. Unethical, poor customer service, or carelessness are better for describing Nexon.

Durex you're completely right. Nexon has no exploitative practices whatsoever. They don't produce a game geared towards people without income, then make it a huge incentive to drop large sums of cash on the game to make standard content bearable. They don't tailor bosses towards a cash based system with the excuse that mts ( a system that still requires those players to spend money ) is a viable option. They don't create a huge barrier between cash and non cash players with any type of cash items that could make your equipment VASTLY superior. All of that is in the imaginations of people smarter and less blind than you.

edit: exploitation is a perfect word. Nexon uses its customers for cash, then waits for a new batch of customers to do the same. Games like this are supported by a minority of players willing to spend large amounts of cash to become top players. I think you people need to learn why/how the whole microtransaction bullshit came about.

Durex you're completely right. Nexon has no exploitative practices whatsoever. They don't produce a game geared towards people without income, then make it a huge incentive to drop large sums of cash on the game to make standard content bearable. They don't tailor bosses towards a cash based system with the excuse that mts ( a system that still requires those players to spend money ) is a viable option. They don't create a huge barrier between cash and non cash players with any type of cash items that could make your equipment VASTLY superior. All of that is in the imaginations of people smarter and less blind than you.

edit: exploitation is a perfect word. Nexon uses its customers for cash, then waits for a new batch of customers to do the same. Games like this are supported by a minority of players willing to spend large amounts of cash to become top players. I think you people need to learn why/how the whole microtransaction bullpomegranate came about.

I feel like this whole thread is going to end up in a debate over the what the word "exploit" means

I feel like this whole thread is going to end up in a debate over the what the word "exploit" means

Ok, let me explain. For those of us arguing against people and claiming they exploit us, we mean they push cash items in your face at every opportunity. They tailor the game around having cash items like cubes (look at any end game boss now). They use their customers for their money and have no desire to support those players afterwards. It's hard to believe people can look at this game and think they can compete without cash. MTS is borked as pineapple and the exchange rates make it near impossible for a new player to reach the level of a cash player.

Entrapment could very easily be pinned on many many many aspects of business, or even life in general. Creating the incentive is indeed part of what they do, but they aren't at all to blame, because that's what we call marketing. Not to say the players individually can do anything about what they decide to do, but they keep the cycle going even if they don't agree with it because they want the benefits despite having the willpower to back away. Nexon's profits prove that.

Yes, they are to blame.
Perhaps I should have been less vague.

When I said they create the incentive, I don't mean that they make really attractive items that are attractive in and of themselves then create vast campaigns to convince players to buy them. That would be marketing.

What Nexon does is design the game in a way so that the lack of NX becomes a burden.
In Maplestory, there's the Potential system. Without investing NX, you're going to find it impossible to participate in some of the game's content.
In Dragon's Nest, there's the storage system. Without investing NX, you quickly run out of space to store the many items that drop from dungeons.

These are just two examples of the way Nexon exploits its players.
It's all very well thought out too.
They create an in-game item with benefits and glaring negatives and, a few months later, release an item that magically removes the negative.

Now, they've found a way to even exploit their non-game-changing items.
They release a Gachapon for Chairs and Mounts!
...but some of those items that you paid for expire.
Don't worry! You can buy another item to make sure they last longer!

Just because people should be able to reason and not feed the system doesn't leave Nexon free from blame for designing the system.

(For the record, I haven't bought NX for over a year, and don't plan to ever again.)

I feel like this whole thread is going to end up in a debate over the what the word "exploit" means

That's dumb. We have dictionaries for that.
[URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploit"]
"2.
to use selfishly for one's own ends: employers who exploit their workers."[/URL]

I'm pretty sure that means I win the thread and that Takebacker's claim that players exploit themselves is utterly nonsensical.
Right?

I feel like this whole thread is going to end up in a debate over the what the word "exploit" means

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation

exploitation in the meaning of using something in an unjust or cruel manner.

So it is cruel/unjust to run a game and charge people to enjoy the game more?

In terms of marketing I'd use the term exploit in cases where the small-print on a contract was used to deceive the customer into agreeing with something they don't know about.