Things I would like to see for BOWMASTERS (if I repeat anyone's I apologize I'm just too lazy to read the entire thread lol)...
1) Remove Dragon's Breath (let's be honest, why do we even need DB anymore since we can stand in front of monsters and still attack fine?)
2) Remove Hamstring (I saw a few people say let it work on bosses but the less buffs the better when dealing with monsters that dispel (casting booster is pointless with Hurricane and it only wastes time if we have to throw in another buff that barely does anything that effective anyway.)
3) Make Focus a passive buff (I am surprised this hasn't happened yet, but it's not a party buff, and I'll point back to #2 regarding hamstring...same thing applies, wasting time casting a buff.)
4) Increase the Proc Rate of Dodge to at least 30% (we don't have as much flexibility in attacking as thieves do so at the very least our dodge skill should be on par with theirs.)
5) Increase the vertical range and attack speed of Arrow Rain (I've seen videos ever since they revamped the look of it and I do like the new look...however, it seems that's all they did and it just seems slower because of that change, not to mention they didn't do anything with the range of the skill...I'm not saying make it huge, but if we are in a map such as roids and on the bottom platform and the one above us isn't too high up it really should connect with those monsters as well.)
6) Make Vengeance a buff (I do like this skill for what it's worth...it's not my favorite skill but I do find it useful from time to time...however I find it more of an inconvenience as a passive skill for a couple reasons: 1) if I am just trying to pass through a map and get hit by a monster and it triggers, it pushes them back into the way I am headed so I wind up getting hit more than I should and waste more pots...2) I like to solo HT from time to time since I am able to...aside from the avoid formula which they are fixing in the Chaos patch, the most effective thing to do to avoid getting hit by HT when seduced is to leave the mobs at the bottom...Vengenace takes away from this from time to time because it will hit the monsters and if it doesn't kill them it pushes them away from you just long enough to get 1/1'd and killed...it would just be easier if they made it a buff.)
Those are the only things I can think of that are critical...a few other things I'd personally like but I feel won't happen are for Marksmanship to go to 15 or 20% max hp increase (thinking ahead for Empress Cygnus b/c even with the high amount of HP I have the pot cooldown will still be killer), boost % dmg of hurricane up to 250% (after Chaos it's 220 so an extra 30%), give Phoenix a burn effect when it hits monsters (b/c it is a fire bird after all...), and increase the minimum crit dmg to bow expert to 20 or 25%...and yes I know some of the stuff in this paragraph would be a bit OP but uh...*points to mechs*...enough said lol.
Furnost Wrote:Things I would like to see for BOWMASTERS (if I repeat anyone's I apologize I'm just too lazy to read the entire thread lol)...
1) Remove Dragon's Breath (let's be honest, why do we even need DB anymore since we can stand in front of monsters and still attack fine?)
A lil lazy here too, only read the first part and wanted to comment on it saying that dragon's breath shouldn't be removed because it is changed in an update to push back all enemies normally like rush does. The idea of being able to push back the monster and attack it from a distance is a great idea and the absence of bow whacking at close range shouldn't warrant the fact that our ranged rush type skill is very useful.
Trust Wrote:A lil lazy here too, only read the first part and wanted to comment on it saying that dragon's breath shouldn't be removed because it is changed in an update to push back all enemies normally like rush does. The idea of being able to push back the monster and attack it from a distance is a great idea and the absence of bow whacking at close range shouldn't warrant the fact that our ranged rush type skill is very useful.
It was only changed to be able to push back party play zone mobs (LHC, EF, Neo City), not moving bosses and stuff like that
Trust Wrote:A lil lazy here too, only read the first part and wanted to comment on it saying that dragon's breath shouldn't be removed because it is changed in an update to push back all enemies normally like rush does. The idea of being able to push back the monster and attack it from a distance is a great idea and the absence of bow whacking at close range shouldn't warrant the fact that our ranged rush type skill is very useful.
Yeah I guess I can see that...however if that's the case then they need to remove Vengeance altogether...there is really no point for that skill if they keep dragon's breath b/c the two totally contradict each other (if I want to use vengeance I am not going to push the mobs that trigger it farther away from me)
Make Vengeance an active skill, not passive. I want to be able to control when I want it to randomly activate or not, and give it a buff effect when it does activate. :<
I HIGHLY agree with changing the Arrow Rain character sprite animation back to... not bow-whacking. I loved the concept of Rain in the sense that you shoot arrows in the air for them to come raining down. The animation change makes more sense but... why on Earth does the character sprite bow-whack, THAT makes no sense. (inb4nexonlogic)
Delay should be reverted back to normal too, as well as lowering the damage but having it hit multiple times, just for the sake of making it seem more like what the skill is. I'm pretty sure a monster isn't able to get hit by just one falling arrow and easily dodge the rest.
Also agreeing with giving Bowmasters a new mob skill, maybe even an upgrade to Rain (much like how Marksmen get an upgrade to Strafe in 4th).
Not sure why people think hurricane needs buffing in terms of its attack %.
If I was being extremely optomistic, this is what I'd like to see for bowmasters:
Spoiler
3rd job: (These kinda apply to both rangers and snipers)
Hawk summon rocks cost removed
Puppet Hp massively buffed. Right now, it takes at most of 2-3 hits from regular mobs before it dies, where it would use to take around 200-1000 damage at max from any training mob, meaning 6 hits at minimum for it to die.
Dodge -> All attacks for next 1.5 seconds are critical when this activates Doesn't affect Final attack arrows . That way both Hurricane and ultimate strafe get 12 Criticals guarenteed, not sure if maples countdown timers for buffs work at often enough intervals for this to be feasible though.
4th: Bowmaster
Venegeance Deleted: Replaced with a new hurricane buff (L> good name ). Max 10 points. Requires Max Hurricane
A Small splash damage (50 Px?) from hurricanes target to up to 2 additional monsters around the target. 50% damage at max per arrow. Can't trigger from Final attack arrows caused by hurricane, or trigger final attack. ~34375% with max SE and Crit ring to splashed monsters, vs~192500% to monsters you hit directly.
Not so powerful that it matches other mob skills, and in theory still not quite as strong as inferno or rain over larger mob groups, but it solves bowmasters complete retardness when it comes to groups of 2-3 monsters where its often better to use a single target skill regardless.
Can HP pot during hurricane. Simple enough. I can maybe see why mp is restricted, but hp doesn't do anything but get you unfairly killed.
Phoenix + 50% per second DoT for 4 seconds.
Marksman ship +10% hp -> 20% Hp
What do I actually expect to see? Maybe hawk rock cost removed, maybe arrow rain buffed ( But I hate arow rain )
2011-04-17, 05:32 PM (This post was last modified: 2011-04-17, 08:18 PM by MariettaRC.)
Veneni Wrote:BM/MM about 20% stronger than WH. Whiners stfu. Mobility comes with a cost.
That is all.
Uh... explain these "costs" to me. And Hurricane and Wild Arrow Shot do the exact same damage, not to mention the mastery skills give the exact same boosts. Then they have that gigantic ultimate, Feline Berserk which increases attack power and they even have an HP increasing skill. Correct me if I'm wrong but Wild Hunters are actually superior to Bowmasters (I know nothing about Marksmen) in those cases. :f6:
Anyway, this isn't about people "whining" about Wild Hunters, it's about balancing the archer classes to be on par with the other classes, not just archers.
MariaColette Wrote:Uh... explain these "costs" to me. And Hurricane and Wild Arrow Shot do the exact same damage, not to mention the mastery skills give the exact same boosts. Then they have that gigantic ultimate, Feline Berserk which increases attack power and they even have an HP increasing skill. Correct me if I'm wrong but Wild Hunters are actually superior to Bowmasters (I know nothing about Marksmen) in those cases. :f6:
Anyway, this isn't about people "whining" about Wild Hunters, it's about balancing the archer classes to be on par with the other classes, not just archers.
I think he was talking about changing it so BM/MMs were stronger.
HighOnMushrooms Wrote:I think he was talking about changing it so BM/MMs were stronger.
This obviously. And I assumed there would be whining. Or do you think all WH would be like "oh ofcoooourse you BM's should be stronger than me, good for you!"
The only experience I have with archers comes from my wind archer, but I got a few ideas of some improvements that could be made to archers. I came up with these ideas quickly so don't bash plz.
2nd Job
-Change Storm break to require only 10 points. Reduce it's damage to 100%
-[New Skill] Whirlwind shot: Shoots an arrow that summons a whirlwind around the monster that it hits, casuing damage to all monsters nearby (Same concept as inferno) When maxed it hits 350% on 6 monsters.
3rd job:
-Remove Strafe
-Eliminate the Eagle Eye transformation requirement on Wind Shot. Increase the casting speed, Reduce its dmg to 300% per arrow.
-[New Skill] Advanced Critical. Increases critical Chance by 10% while also increasing miniun and maximum critical damage by 20% (or whatever quantity). Max level: 20.
This is all I can think for wind archers.
As for bowmasters, I only have experience on these from watching my friend play hers. But I also can think of some Ideas. Some of these also based on comments on this thread.
2nd job
-Obviously get rid of enhanced basics for a +40 dex skill or +30 str/dex
-Change powerknock back so when a monster is pushed back by this skill, it can crash into other monsters and deal damage. IDK what amount of dmg would be necesary to make this skill usefull but well, just an idea.
As for 3rd job, I can only think of:
-Remove Evasion Boost
-[New skill] Quick Evasion: Double Tap the directional arrow keys to perform a quick hop in that direction and avoid attacks. After performing a quick evasion, the next attack has 20% higher chance to be a critical hit. As a secondary effect quick evasion also boosts your avoidability by 20%.
If only we didn't know that by this time, the development department of KMS must have the archer changes already planned while already building up the next Thief and Pirate changes (if there will be any).
I'd be up to having Inferno's "burn the landscape" ability from WAY back in 3rd job return
Provides strategic placing to go along with the puppet placement idea, and since F/P mages can have mist all over the map, i think rangers should be able to too.
byakugan Wrote:The only experience I have with archers comes from my wind archer, but I got a few ideas of some improvements that could be made to archers. I came up with these ideas quickly so don't bash plz.
Spoiler
2nd Job
-Change Storm break to require only 10 points. Reduce it's damage to 100%
-[New Skill] Whirlwind shot: Shoots an arrow that summons a whirlwind around the monster that it hits, casuing damage to all monsters nearby (Same concept as inferno) When maxed it hits 350% on 6 monsters.
3rd job:
-Remove Strafe
-Eliminate the Eagle Eye transformation requirement on Wind Shot. Increase the casting speed, Reduce its dmg to 300% per arrow.
-[New Skill] Advanced Critical. Increases critical Chance by 10% while also increasing miniun and maximum critical damage by 20% (or whatever quantity). Max level: 20.
This is all I can think for wind archers.
As for bowmasters, I only have experience on these from watching my friend play hers. But I also can think of some Ideas. Some of these also based on comments on this thread.
2nd job
-Obviously get rid of enhanced basics for a +40 dex skill or +30 str/dex
-Change powerknock back so when a monster is pushed back by this skill, it can crash into other monsters and deal damage. IDK what amount of dmg would be necesary to make this skill usefull but well, just an idea.
As for 3rd job, I can only think of:
-Remove Evasion Boost
-[New skill] Quick Evasion: Double Tap the directional arrow keys to perform a quick hop in that direction and avoid attacks. After performing a quick evasion, the next attack has 20% higher chance to be a critical hit. As a secondary effect quick evasion also boosts your avoidability by 20%.
If only we didn't know that by this time, the development department of KMS must have the archer changes already planned while already building up the next Thief and Pirate changes (if there will be any).
I have to say that changes like these sound a lot better than the ones I put up in my first post (I have them in a spoiler tag now). Though I'm not sure about removing Strafe, even if it is useless except for getting Ultimate Strafe. I always considered it to be the staple of the Archer classes.
Sorien Wrote:I have to say that changes like these sound a lot better than the ones I put up in my first post (I have them in a spoiler tag now). Though I'm not sure about removing Strafe, even if it is useless except for getting Ultimate Strafe. I always considered it to be the staple of the Archer classes.
Removing it only for wind archers. Wind archers don't use strafe. They usually add 1 point to it and then dont make it stronger until you're done maxing all the rest of your skills (and even then its only a SP pit).
I just thought about a change for vengeance.
With a success rate, gives your arrows the strength to pierce through the monster they hit and hit other monsters behind it. The success rate can activate with every hit, so its possible for 1 arrow to hit and pierce over 2 monsters.
This would work only for hurricane and strafe but would also affect FA shots derived from hurricane. Not a replacement for a mob skill but would increase their mobbing abilities.
byakugan Wrote:Removing it only for wind archers. Wind archers don't use strafe. They usually add 1 point to it and then dont make it stronger until you're done maxing all the rest of your skills (and even then its only a SP pit).
I just thought about a change for vengeance.
With a success rate, gives your arrows the strength to pierce through the monster they hit and hit other monsters behind it. The success rate can activate with every hit, so its possible for 1 arrow to hit and pierce over 2 monsters.
This would work only for hurricane and strafe but would also affect FA shots derived from hurricane. Not a replacement for a mob skill but would increase their mobbing abilities.
I like this idea and if they do this they can make it like how Pirate's Revenge works for Buccs where it activates at a certain % when you get hit.
make dragon's breath work on non-stationary bosses
i feel like MM have enough skills, but i really want them to add a prone mastery skill
so you can attack while in the prone position. you have to hold down. all attacks get a % increase, accuracy goes up a huge amount, avoid goes up, but w.def goes down. or avoid goes down to zero (but evasion boost still works) merge it with marksmanship so -20% w.def on all attacks and +10% hp. adds additional stats to blind, and additional damage to snipe and pierce.
make puppet draw fire like wild trap does (without aggroing). increase puppet's HP depending on your level.
hmmm. bowmasters... i dunno
advanced arrow bomb (pin cushion bomb): depending on how many arrows you've sunk into a monster with hurricane ( a counter appears) you can detoante them dealing big mob damage bouncing from the pincushioned monster. can only target one monster to detonate (? or maybe not?)
make 4th job birds stronger.
WH's speed needs to go down, and water some attacks down.
). Max 10 points. Requires Max Hurricane
)
