Gay Marriage

I was really only referring to the integrity part of your comment. Marriage is a worthless feel-good concept that has been degraded into something people laugh about because of how others have treated it. There is no integrity attached. Once there was, but no longer.

This may be in your country, and in the United States, but it is not for every country in the world. Some countries still have marriages with integrity.

(but in ancient times it was written as 昏, no woman, (either woman is not important or marriage is all about penis)

Pro gay rights argument right there

I hate gay people. Therefore I support gay marriage. Many gay people claim that they didn't make a conscious choice to be gay. In fact, they were born gay due to a gay gene. If this is true then gay people should marry because they will not be able to reproduce children that have gay genes. The only reason so many gay people exist is because they were forced to enter sham-heterosexual relationships and bear children that inherited these gay genes and were eventually expressed in these individuals thus causing them to become gay. If we allow and encourage gay marriage, we will eventually wipe out gay people.

Lol'd fucking hard.

Gay marriage doesn't effect me one way or another. I don't like a government being able to govern the personal decisions of the people, however, so I lean more towards allowing it.

I'm gay. You're straight. What's the difference? Neither of us chose to be this way (unless you're an idiotic closet-gay who refuses to accept yourself). Before, if I had the chance to change to straight, I would. But yano, I've grown to accept this is who I am. I am Myles. Why should I not have the same rights as anyone else? Might aswell re-ban black people from the front of the bus, whilst you're at it, I fail to see the difference.

I have nothing against it, I support it. Alot of my friends are either gay or bi, either way it makes no difference to me. Marriage isn't as big a deal as it was in the 50's and whatnot. Who cares who someone marries. They love them.. does it really matter what we think in general? Are the police going to come up and take the ring off there fingers?

Gay people should have the same exact rights as straight people. Gay people want to get married? Let them. End of story.

 Spoiler

I agree with Sarah. The real crime is white people watching Anime.

I was really only referring to the integrity part of your comment. Marriage is a worthless feel-good concept that has been degraded into something people laugh about because of how others have treated it. There is no integrity attached. Once there was, but no longer.

Premise: There is no integrity in marriages (adulterers, high rate of divorce)
Premise: Because there is no integrity in marriages, marriages are worthless feel-good concepts
Premise: Heterosexuals abuse marriages.
Therefore: There is no integrity of marriage, and...
Therefore: Gays should have the right get married.

It's an illogical argument. The premises do not support the conclusions.

If marriage is such a worthless concept, then why would gays want it in the first place? What, do they fight for nothing?

Wow this thread got a lot of replies! Great discussion. I hope everyone has taken the time to refill their great brew because I'm sure you've drained them in the progression of the thread.

When you return with your next mug, here's some more food for thought:

Swerve: You mentioned rights and privileges "supposedly" afforded to married couples. Here is a list. On that list you'll find "Making spousal medical decisions," which includes the termination of life at the time such termination would be termed "euthanasia."

Also, here are some 200+ passages throughout the Bible belittling or demeaning women, which have been used to oppress the gender for centuries. If you're fighting the good fight against gays with Leviticus, here's to hoping you're doing the same against women with the above so as to not appear biased.

I also agree with you that minority groups should all be afforded the same rights and privileges, however strange (to society) they're wired (not beliefs, mind you. A person making a conscious choice to behave a certain way is not arguing at the same level as a person biologically designed a certain way). I personally have issue with bestiality, incest, and "loving pedophilia" (older men/women falling in love with children under the age of 17), but I have not looked into the issues enough to formulate appropriate opinions. I will say this: genetically speaking, incestuous relationships result in an increased probability of disorder and disease. I can't recall the exact name of the family, but I know there was a royal lineage in European history with males plagued with hemophilia due to inbreeding between lines. Therefore my preliminary opinion regarding incest is to forbid it, as that protects the future of the family. I also disagree with "loving pedophilia" because many of the cases I've seen portrayed on Law & Order SVU end up with the older person essentially "dumping" the younger when they get "too old," which shows me the love is not really true. Again, the area is very rocky, but for now I'm against it.

With that being said, many have said they do not believe in the existence of a gay gene, but do not believe it is a choice. If it's not genetic, then, bluntly, what makes people gay? I'm curious to see what people believe.

Premise: There is no integrity in marriages (adulterers, high rate of divorce)
Premise: Because there is no integrity in marriages, marriages are worthless feel-good concepts
Premise: Heterosexuals abuse marriages.
Therefore: There is no integrity of marriage, and...
Therefore: Gays should have the right get married.

It's an illogical argument. The premises do not support the conclusions.

If marriage is such a worthless concept, then why would gays want it in the first place? What, do they fight for nothing?

It's more like why shouldn't they have it? It's like eating a big platter of mud and someone gay says HEY CAN I HAVE SOME OF THAT MUD and you're like NO THIS MUD IS ONLY FOR STRAIGHT PEOPLE. There's no reason not to give them some mud because it's not like it's going to make anyone worse off... except the people eating the mud.

The people fighting against them are the ones fighting for nothing. Homosexuals are fighting for equality.

If marriage is such a worthless concept, then why would gays want it in the first place? What, do they fight for nothing?

There are legal benefits to being married.
I'm sure for the most part, if people believed in the integrity of marriage, they actually would not care wheter or not they were married; only that they were together.

As far as I'm concerned sexual orientation is just another genetic variance, which shouldn't be discriminated upon. And the "they cannot reproduce" argument I saw I few posts up is pretty stupid. I'm sure people have countered that with infertile couples and waht not.

I meant that as a counterargument to Sarah, not an argument of my own.

I've done all of the reasoning and logic I could to come up with a way to be against gay marriage. I can't come up with a good reason to be against it, so I suppose I'm for it.

[color="#000080"]

I just want some way to mooch off of my potential partner's health care. I don't care too much about fairness, nor do I feel very oppressed.

As a matter of fact, I talk down to straight people for not being as fabulous as I am.

But but but... you're not bi? [/color]

Sodom and Gomorrah was a gay city that got wiped by the Lord for being gay.
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (NIV)

Unless you're Jewish Leviticus has virtually no meaning to you. Christ changed the rules for Christians and the Muslim's have their very intricate and much more thorough beliefs on the subject than the two paltry references you were able to scrape out of the depths of transliterated antiquity there. I won't even dignify Sodom and Gomorrah except to say you've either misunderstood that section, or were took guidance on it from someone with an agenda.

The closest word for one who picks and chooses which aspects of a religion to encourage based on their own agenda would be hypocrite.
If any portion of these laws, supposedly the absolute will of god, are capable of being considered out-dated they are all equally fallible, otherwise they should all continue to be adhered to with equal fervor, not simply pulled out to excuse or justify bigotry. That's been done against slaves, women and countless other minorities for time immemorial.

• You are not to take a woman to be a rival with her sister and have sexual relations with her while her sister is still alive.
  
• You are not to approach a woman in order to have sexual relations with her when she is unclean from her time of her period.
  
• You are not to go to bed with your neighbor's wife and thus become unclean with her.
  
• Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
  
• Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
  
• Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
  
• Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly.
  
• When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt.
  

My personal favorite;
'Do not be unjust in judging - show neither partiality to the poor nor deference to the mighty, but with justice judge your neighbor. "

There is no gay gene lol. If there was... oh boy would there be controversy if that was combined with gene therapy. To me, it's really the choice of the person who he/she wants to grow up to be as. Just as you have a choice of what job you wanna do, or who do you vote for... you have a choice of who you want to be with.

To me, it's really the choice of the person who he/she wants to grow up to be as. Just as you have a choice of what job you wanna do, or who do you vote for... you have a choice of who you want to be with.

You have a choice of who you want to be with, but do you have a choice of who you want to be attracted to?
Is it voluntary whether you like blue eyes or brown? Whether you're interested in breasts, or hips? Whether you like short or tall? If you want to be attracted to a specific type of person, and only that type, for a month could you?

There is no gay gene lol. If there was... oh boy would there be controversy if that was combined with gene therapy. To me, it's really the choice of the person who he/she wants to grow up to be as. Just as you have a choice of what job you wanna do, or who do you vote for... you have a choice of who you want to be with.

Some studies have found correlations between physiology of people and their sexuality. These studies provide evidence which they claim suggests that:

• The VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalmus is larger in men than in women, and larger in gay men than in heterosexual men.
  
• Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheres.
  
• The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH 3 in women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.
  
• The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men, the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women.
  
• Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.
  
• Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
  
• The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties found in men than in non-gay women (the researchers argued this finding was consistent with the prenatal hormonal theory of sexual orientation).
  
• The startle response (eye blinks following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women.
  
• One region of the brain (amygdala) is more active in gay men than non-gay men when exposed to sexually arousing material.
  
• Gay and non-gay people emit different underarm odors.
  
• Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two human sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in female urine).
  
• Finger length ratios between the index and ring fingers may be different between non-gay and lesbian women.
  
• Gay men and lesbians are significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous than non-gay men and women; Simon LeVay argues that because "hand preference is observable before birth... the observation of increased non-right-handness in gay people is therefore consistent with the idea that sexual orientation is influenced by prenatal processes," perhaps heredity.
  
• A study of 50 gay men found 23% had counterclockwise hair whirl, as opposed to 8% in the general population. This may correlate with left-handedness.
  
• Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies.
  
• Length of limbs and hands of gay men is smaller compared to height than the general population, but only among white men.

Further proof of your argument, says I. Fetuses are crafty little buggers.

Apparently, homosexual men have bigger dicks. I'm shocked.

Apparently, homosexual men have bigger dicks. I'm shocked.

Apparently, homosexual men have bigger dicks. I'm shocked.

In a Hetro relationship, the guy can lie about his size to other people, but the girl will cut in and cut his ego down. However, in a homo relationship, both guys can agree to exaggerate on their size and/or, quoting Throes here, EVERYTHING feels big in 'there'.

You have a choice of who you want to be with, but do you have a choice of who you want to be attracted to?
Is it voluntary whether you like blue eyes or brown? Whether you're interested in breasts, or hips? Whether you like short or tall? If you want to be attracted to a specific type of person, and only that type, for a month could you?

I believe that too is a choice people are able to make @ who to be attracted to or to what features in people make him/her seem attractive. I mean, I admit that I have a preference for Asian women. However, I do have exceptions to that preference in terms of other races, as a few who know me knows what I mean.

...from what you're asking, are you implying that people really have no free will on what he/she is attracted to?