Bossing Ability Chart

I'd like to argue that while marksmen dont have particular ease in pinning anego to the left side, it is possible to pin her on the right side and doesnt require any "dangerous" maneuvers. I can pull off sniping her and strafing her to death without death.

[COLOR="c8899"]May want to divide out spear/PA usage for DrKs, as it makes a radical difference in DPS.[/COLOR]

Right, so I need a bit of help:

[SPOILER=Here's what I made in Excel so far]

	Hero	Paladin	Dark Knight	F/P Archmage	I/L Archmage	Bishop	Bowmaster	Marksman	Night Lord	Shadower	Buccaneer	Corsair
Area Bosses (Crog and Under)	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	0	1	1	1	1
Manon + Griffey	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Leviathan	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Dodo	0	2	0	2	2	2	0	1	1	1	1	1
Lilynouch	0	1	0	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Lyka	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Headless Horseman	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	0
Bigfoot	0	0	0	3	3	4	3	4	2	1	1	3
Anego	3	3	3	2	2	2	1	3	1	3	3	0
Bodyguard A/B + Grandpa	4	4	4	4	4	4	0	1	0	-	-	0
Geist Balrog	1	1	1	3	1	3	1	1	1	1	1	1
Margana	1	1	1	2	2	2	0	1	0	1	1	0
Hsalf	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Rellik	0	0	0	2	2	2	3	3	3	1	1	3
Red Nirg	0	1	0	2	2	2	2	2	2	1	1	2
Pianus	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Papulatus	1	1	1	2	2	2	0	1	1	1	1	0
Zakum	0	1	1	1	1	1	0	1	0	1	1	0
Horntail	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Pink Bean	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

First of all, am I missing any bosses? I'm not including job advance/quest bosses and I lumped all the weak area bosses in 1 since everyone can kill them in less than 5 seconds. I can throw in non-GMS bosses later, but I want to get everything else done first.

It's going to look nicer eventually; all I have to do is write a script to swap out all the numbers for pictures/colors. Anyway, it's kind of rushed because I'm still busy at the moment, but you can kind of see what I've started here. I still need a separate table at the bottom for support roles at squad bosses, but other than that I have the framework set down.

0 = this class is exceptional at this boss, noticeably better than others, and/or highly desired for this boss
1 = this class is a solid attacker and useful to have at this boss
2 = this class can do okay at this boss, but contributes much less damage than any class rated as a 1 to this boss
3 = this class faces significant problems at this boss. Problems include:
- requiring massive HP washing to simply survive at the boss even under optimal gameplay
- requiring constant use of a skill that does much less damage than the class is capable of
- being unable to attack for long periods of time
- requiring tactics that are very dangerous or difficult to pull off consistently
4 = this class is useless or near useless at this boss. It is only able to deal trivial damage or none at all, or it requires the player to satisfy an extreme condition that most people are unlikely to be capable of (such as 600+ accuracy on a warrior or 12k base HP on a ranged class)

I'm expecting that I made a lot of mistakes. I'd appreciate help and any corrections people have to offer. I left quite a bit of the chart blank because I simply have no idea what goes there.

Add an average at the bottom, so people can see if each class is a more well-rounded bosser than others. Also, Bishops should receive a 4 at Margana, Hsalf, and Rellik because of the holy immunity, and the A/M should have their scores balanced out for those three as well.

[COLOR="Green"]I am more bugged by the fact that you consider Heroes better than paladinas at a few areas, but NEVER consider Paladins better than Heroes at ANY instance. Lilynouch and Headless horsheman are both lightning weak, meaning Paladins deal more damage. Hsalf is also ice weak and has a large amount of def, meaning that a single hit from a Paladin would be reduced less by defense than a Hero's Brandish hits. Other than that, idk.

I guess I'm just dissappointed that you don't consider a Paladin the best at anywhere, and consider Heroes the best at a lot of places. Also, factor in Heaven's Hammer for the area bosses, because it can make any of them a 2hko.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]I am more bugged by the fact that you consider Heroes better than paladinas at a few areas, but NEVER consider Paladins better than Heroes at ANY instance. Lilynouch and Headless horsheman are both lightning weak, meaning Paladins deal more damage. Hsalf is also ice weak and has a large amount of def, meaning that a single hit from a Paladin would be reduced less by defense than a Hero's Brandish hits. Other than that, idk.

I guess I'm just dissappointed that you don't consider a Paladin the best at anywhere, and consider Heroes the best at a lot of places. Also, factor in Heaven's Hammer for the area bosses, because it can make any of them a 2hko.[/COLOR]

Paladins hardly do more than Heroes on Lightning weak monsters, while Heroes rape Pallys on monsters that are neutral or resistant monsters. Heroes hit more than Pallys on Ice-weak monsters (although less so). Defense affects both of them the same way. Plus in the case of CWKPQ, Heroes are way better since they hit all three bosses at once instead of one at a time. And they hit harder on each boss.

Heaven's Hammer is no better than any other skill for area bosses except for the fact that it has a lot of range. I might as well put Air Strike down, because just about every area boss can be 2hko'd anyway.

Unless we are mobbing 6 Fire/Lightning/Holy weak monsters or attacking 1 Holy weak monster, Paladins really do have no real bossing advantages over Heroes.

@Fumni: the problem with an average is that there are a lot of bosses that most people don't care about, and the average wouldn't be a very good representation of overall bossing ability.

Main boss I see missing is the final guy in Mu Lung Dojo.

Main boss I see missing is the final guy in Mu Lung Dojo.

Oh right, thanks.

Maybe I mislooked it but are you going to add KOC?

Maybe I mislooked it but are you going to add KOC?

I wasn't planning to since they're pretty useless. Convince me?

Paladins hardly do more than Heroes on Lightning weak monsters, while Heroes rape Pallys on monsters that are neutral or resistant monsters. Heroes hit more than Pallys on Ice-weak monsters (although less so). Defense affects both of them the same way. Plus in the case of CWKPQ, Heroes are way better since they hit all three bosses at once instead of one at a time. And they hit harder on each boss.

[COLOR="Green"]You should include a chart of the PQs themselves, as CWKPQ would need the best of all different elements, in which case Heroes rule there.

I also thought that Paladins and Heroes went this way in damage.
Neutral or Ice Weak: Hero Wins
Fire Weak: Tied for Damage
Lightning and Holy Weak: Paladin Wins

Sorry, jealous pally.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]You should include a chart of the PQs themselves, as CWKPQ would need the best of all different elements, in which case Heroes rule there.

I also thought that Paladins and Heroes went this way in damage.
Neutral or Ice Weak: Hero Wins
Fire Weak: Tied for Damage
Lightning and Holy Weak: Paladin Wins

Sorry, jealous pally.[/COLOR]

It is, but there's not much of a difference on Ice and Lightning.

Brandish: 988%
Blast:
770% neutral with Holy Charge (77.9% of Brandish)
907.5% ice weak (91.8% of Brandish)
990% fire weak (100.2% of Brandish)
1031.25% lightning weak (104.4% of Brandish)
1155% holy weak (116.9% of Brandish)

I don't think a damage difference of less than 10% is worth making a big deal out of. Other classes have much greater damage disparities.

Edit: Okay, I also realized that I forgot to include Black Crow and Latanica. Going to fix MMs with Anego - didn't know that they could pin it.

I'll add for Cygnus Knights:

	Dawn Warrior	Wind Archer	Blaze Wizzard	Night Walker	Thunder Breaker
Area Bosses (Crog and Under)	1	1	2	1	1
Manon + Griffey	1	3	4	3	1
Leviathan	1	1	4	1	1
Dodo	1	3	4	1	1
Headless Horseman	1	0	2	0	0
Bigfoot	4	4	4	1	1
Anego	4	1	4	1	1
Bodyguard A/B + Grandpa	4	1	4	1	4
Geist Balrog	1	1	2	1	1
Pianus	1	3	4	1	1
Papulatus	1	1	4	1	1
Zakum (Party)	1	0	4	0	0
Horntail (Party)	4	3	4	3	4

0 = this class is exceptional at this boss, noticeably better than others, and/or highly desired for this boss
1 = this class is a solid attacker and useful to have at this boss
2 = this class can do okay at this boss, but contributes much less damage than any class rated as a 1 to this boss
3 = this class faces significant problems at this boss. Problems include:
- requiring massive HP washing to simply survive at the boss even under optimal gameplay
- requiring constant use of a skill that does much less damage than the class is capable of
- being unable to attack for long periods of time
- requiring tactics that are very dangerous or difficult to pull off consistently
4 = this class is useless or near useless at this boss. It is only able to deal trivial damage or none at all, or it requires the player to satisfy an extreme condition that most people are unlikely to be capable of (such as 600+ accuracy on a warrior or 12k base HP on a ranged class)

Just noticed you missed Ergoth too, he goes something like
ergoth ~ 0 4 0 4 4 3 1 0 1 1 1 0

Justified in that 5 statues = best for Hero/Drk/MM, and he's i/l/f/p/h resistant, healable... but he dies fast anyway so who cares.


If I remember correctly his statues only have about 1mil hp, so a party marksmen working together could Pierce-ko in 1 shot :/

If I remember correctly his statues only have about 1mil hp, so a party marksmen working together could Pierce-ko in 1 shot :/

That would be way too hot for words.

I want to see that happen now. T~T

I think there will be too much arguments

I'll add for Cygnus Knights:

	Dawn Warrior	Wind Archer	Blaze Wizzard	Night Walker	Thunder Breaker
Zakum (Party)	1	0	4	0	0

0 = this class is exceptional at this boss, noticeably better than others, and/or highly desired for this boss
1 = this class is a solid attacker and useful to have at this boss

Funny funny guy, as always... Never one to miss a chance to joke are you?

[COLOR="Green"]Ok, I'm done with the whole whether a Paladin is better than a Hero on x boss thing, cause I see your point, since 10% difference isn't much of a deal unless people are high on attack pots.

But I wanna know why Paladins are ranked less on Lilynouch when he's lightning weak. Shouldn't that mean that Paladins match up with the Heroes and Dark Knights?

I also want to bring up the point that Margana is resistant to every element, so a Paladin should be lowered down to less than Heroes and Darks on that boss.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Ok, I'm done with the whole whether a Paladin is better than a Hero on x boss thing, cause I see your point, since 10% difference isn't much of a deal unless people are high on attack pots.

But I wanna know why Paladins are ranked less on Lilynouch when he's lightning weak. Shouldn't that mean that Paladins match up with the Heroes and Dark Knights?

I also want to bring up the point that Margana is resistant to every element, so a Paladin should be lowered down to less than Heroes and Darks on that boss.[/COLOR]

Oh, not sure, that would be a mistake then

Looks like a fairly comprehensive list

but...is it actually based on anything other then elemenntal resists,pinnability and general biases (whether inherent or perceived)against certain classes?

perhaps its a lack of variety of bosses in the game
but the lsit seems to boil down to ranged boss or melee boss, elementally weak or not -- appears to be common sense -- i.e. if youre a warrior dont go to anego

perhaps i was hoping for too much

i would like a revisit to zak

all 0s and 1s just doesnt sit right with me

bishops receive 2s at all cwkpq bosses -- but send them into zak and now theyre at a 1?

fatigue by the end of the list? most commonly recruited classes all receive 0s and the rest get 1s

dont get me wrong -- if i wanted a list of how everyone feels certain classes do at certain bosses id come to sp first

i was just expecting a little more substance

Blaze wizards have more utility than any other cygnus at HT. While other classes are doing relatively pitiful damage (or constantly missing in the case of DWs and TBs), BWs offer solid mob control. An extremely well geared BW can OHKO the Dark Wyverns at HT (which are fire weak), removing the threat of dispel from other runners. (Until middle head anyway). That said, a F/P archmage still does the job significantly better, and even tosses in a little DPS to the run.