Ask a Thief Thread.

Is there a point in getting more than level 19 mastery as a bandit?

1 extra accuracy! It's either that or one crucial SP for steal. But don't put that last point into booster until late second job.

1 extra accuracy! It's either that or one crucial SP for steal. But don't put that last point into booster until late second job.

Yeah Bandits have like 50 extra points at the end of second job so it's really just whatever the hell you want. I'd max mastery just to make it look neat.

How does SB out damage DS, per hit, at level 8?
4 * 40% = 160% at level one, already 30% more than DS. If Defence is to blame, wouldn't there be a cut off for a value of D and the mob's wDef?

Looking over skill tables, I've layed out my SP plan for 2nd job:
+1 Steal (wanna play with it)
+7 Mastery (Numbers I crunched says 30% mastery is when LUK is just a big of factor as STR and DEX for min damage. Being Dexless atm, seems like a decent spot to stop and start SB)
+30 Savage Blow
+6 Booster (Maybe move this into the middle of SB...? What's a good cutoff? 21?)
+12 Mastery
+20 Haste

That should last until level 55.

Could I get some second opinions on my skill build? Might tweek it after reading through some guides, and depending on how effective new kMS Steal is.

How does SB out damage DS, per hit, at level 8?
4 * 40% = 160% at level one, already 30% more than DS. If Defence is to blame, wouldn't there be a cut off for a value of D and the mob's wDef?

Looking over skill tables, I've layed out my SP plan for 2nd job:
+1 Steal (wanna play with it)
+7 Mastery (Numbers I crunched says 30% mastery is when LUK is just a big of factor as STR and DEX for min damage. Being Dexless atm, seems like a decent spot to stop and start SB)
+30 Savage Blow
+6 Booster (Maybe move this into the middle of SB...? What's a good cutoff? 21?)
+12 Mastery
+20 Haste

That should last until level 55.

Could I get some second opinions on my skill build? Might tweek it after reading through some guides, and depending on how effective new kMS Steal is.

My build was 19 mastery, 6 booster, 30 SB, then haste. I didn't cruch the numbers, but at level 38 a stable, faster DS seemed like a better choice than 25 SB.

Comparing your build to mine at level 40 using a fast(4) dagger for DPM:

Mine: (.6*.9+1)/2*2*1.3*100*100%= 20020% dmg/min

Yours.3*.9+1/2*6*.73*71*100%= 19747.23% dmg/min

For training, until you can 1 hit with SB and not with DS, DS is a better option.

Personally, I would get a higher level of mastery before SB. But that's just my opinion.

After 21 SB, Mastery takes priority in higher average damage if I recall correctly. In terms of DPS, you need 15 SB to overtake Double Stab. However, at those early levels, you usually consider hits-to-kill as opposed to actual DPS.

Also, Double Stab is 140% max.

Unless they changed it, you need 5 haste for Steal.

Does Haste have a prereq? ;_;

After 21 SB, Mastery takes priority in higher average damage if I recall correctly. In terms of DPS, you need 15 SB to overtake Double Stab. However, at those early levels, you usually consider hits-to-kill as opposed to actual DPS.

Also, Double Stab is 140% max.

So the string is wrong? lolnexon.

No prereq for Haste. I'm probably going to go

30-1Mastery
''
37- MAX MAstery
38- 3 haste
39- 2 Haste, 1 Steal
''
49-MAX Steal
50-3booster
51-6booster
52-3SB
''
62-MAX SB
63-9booster
''
68-MAX booster, MAX Dark Sight
69-3 Endure
70-6 Endure
and then Max Endure somewhere near the end of 3rd job.

I think I made some mistake up there in the plan, but that's the general idea.

Does Haste have a prereq? ;_;



So the string is wrong? lolnexon.

Double Stab has been 140% since v0.56 along with the other skill updates and the strings for all of them have been wrong since then.

One thing I want to note is some weapon speeds. Double Stab is the same at Fast (5) With Booster or Fast (4) with or without.
This is with the same level of Mastery.
Fast (5) No Booster 20 Savage Blow > 20 Double Stab
Fast (5) Booster 18 Savage Blow > 20 Double Stab
Fast (4) No Booster 21 Savage Blow > 20 Double Stab
Fast (4) Booster 15 Savage Blow > 20 Double Stab
Yes there is a very significant difference between No Booster and Booster for Fast (4). If you're asking how, Fast (4) Double Stab is significantly faster than Fast (5) while the boost to Savage Blow is not as such (9 more hpm with DS to 6 more with SB).

Easiest Fast (4) weapon is the Korean Fan I believe though, and all STR daggers until 50.

What it boils down to is whether to want to be stronger at the higher level or stronger at the lower level, but both are equal at 45 if you do it right.
So really, what it is is Can I train with Double Stab for 13 more levels or do I want to do it for 8? Do I really care if I out damage someone who uses Double Stab when I'm level 40~44, even though he was out damaging me from 32~39? If you CPQ this might be a bit more significant, though your XHKO rate and speed is more important.
To be even more specific, the general build is:

 Spoiler

L	Savage Blow	Double Stab
30	+1 Mastery [1]	+1 Mastery [1]
31	+3 Mastery [4]	+3 Mastery [4]
32	+1 Mastery [5] +2 Booster [2]	+3 Mastery [7]
33	+3 Booster [5]	+3 Mastery [10]
34	+3 Savage Blow [3]	+3 Mastery [13]
35	+3 Savage Blow [6]	+3 Mastery [16]
36	+3 Savage Blow [9]	+3 Mastery [19]
37	+3 Savage Blow [12]	+3 Booster [3]
38	+3 Savage Blow [15]	+3 Booster [6]
39	+3 Savage Blow [18]	+3 Savage Blow [3]
40	+3 Savage Blow [21]	+3 Savage Blow [6]
41	+3 Mastery [8]	+3 Savage Blow [9]
42	+3 Mastery [11]	+3 Savage Blow [12]
43	+3 Mastery [14]	+3 Savage Blow [15]
44	+3 Mastery [17]	+3 Savage Blow [18]
45	+2 Mastery [19] +1 Booster [6]	+3 Savage Blow [21]

Bold is the better DPS. Both builds start off at even ground.
It's pretty insignificant to begin with, but combined with the extremely stable damage of Savage Blow's multihits, your need for mastery isn't as significantly high as the other jobs are.
And as always, putting your points into Mastery instead of finishing off your 21 Savage Blow gives better damage.

There's a minor alternative where you can forsake your Booster and go straight for 21 Savage Blow, but it achieves the same result at 40 because 21 Savage Blow 1 Mastery won't out damage 19 Mastery 20 Double Stab without Booster. Comparatively, you can move Booster earlier if you have a Fast (5) Dagger and it will improve your damage with Double Stab too. Otherwise, it is wasted as Double Stab already hits its speed cap at Fast (4) unless they've changed that (which means there's significant information to look at in terms of these builds). If you want to check, you should be hitting 100 attacks per minute with Double Stab with any Dagger with Booster on or Fast (4) alone.

tl;dr it's all really the same pomegranate, and after 45 you should have 19 Mastery 6 Booster 21 Savage Blow and be happy with life until the Steal build comes around. Savage Blow is worthless without Booster compared to Double Stab. Do you want to Double Stab until 43 or 38? Do you want to be outdamaging other Bandits from 32~39 or 40~44?

P.S. I hate my life. I can't believe I wrote all this to have that stupid conclusion.

Where do I train.. during x2, gallops is out of the question, and himes is crow infested in every channel all the time. I do not know if i can survive a skele hit or golem hit also.. I'm actually at like, -1000 reps or something, and since college is starting again in less than a week, i wont be planning on getting a x2 card soon.. halp~ TT_TT

So here we go the most basic question of all.
Since in kMS we have C-2 to train in until 80, I plan to do a goby build when I hit 7x.
It'll just be;
1ME
3 Chakra
3MG
Max BoT

Just so I can go to Kents and whatnot for some decent EXP.
So, a level 7x CB bombing gobys with a fair amount of precise timing and skill should use about how much mesos per level.
And what might the percent per hour be?

Edit; Also I do have experience with bombing gobys. I did it back on gMS but for less than 50% or so. Never paid attention there anyway, 2 years ago lolwut.

@ InTraining, Sadly your best bets are newtie partying or training at skeles with an AM/Bishop. Himes are okay if you can get a priest but its slower next to newts and skeles, pretty sure you can take a hit from both of them.

On Topic: is it worth it to get more venom just to kill faster at skeles and ToT monsters? Note: im planning on training there more often but i boss alot too

I can't seem to find a Night Walker 'SP' allocation guide, at all. I don't about these newer skills like that one weird Bomb skill at 3rd job, or if I should do TT over SP, SP over TT, or a little bit of both. -cringe-

I can't seem to find a Night Walker 'SP' allocation guide, at all. I don't about these newer skills like that one weird Bomb skill at 3rd job, or if I should do TT over SP, SP over TT, or a little bit of both. -cringe-

BSmarket has one.

 Spoiler

SP Allocation:
Level 70: 1-Poison Bomb
Level 71: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 72: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 73: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 74: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 75: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 76: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 77: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 78: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 79: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 80: 3-Shadow PartnerMaxed
Level 81: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 82: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 83: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 84: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 85: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 86: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 87: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 88: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 89: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 90: 2-Poison BombMaxed, 1-Avenger
Level 91: 3-Avenger
Level 92: 3-Avenger
Level 93: 3-Avenger
Level 94: 1-Avenger, 2-Save
Level 95: 3-Save (5 Saved Points)
Level 96: 3-Save (8 Saved Points)
Level 97: 3-Save (11 Saved Points)
Level 98: 3-Save (14 Saved Points)
Level 99: 3-Save (17 Saved Points)
Level 100: 20-Triple ThrowMaxed
Level 101: 3-Avenger
Level 102: 3-Avenger
Level 103: 3-Avenger
Level 104: 3-Avenger
Level 105: 3-Avenger
Level 106: 3-Avenger
Level 107: 1-AvengerMaxed, 2-Save
Level 108: 3-Save (5 Saved Points)
Level 109: 3-Save (8 Saved Points)
Level 110: 11-Venomous Star
Level 111: 3-Venomous Star
Level 112: 3-Venomous Star
Level 113: 3-Venomous StarMaxed
Level 114: 3-Alchemist
Level 115: 3-Alchemist
Level 116: 3-Alchemist
Level 117: 3-Alchemist
Level 118: 3-Alchemist
Level 119: 3-Alchemist
Level 120: 2-Alchemist, 1-Shadow Web + Echo of a Hero free of charge

Shadow Partner - Maxed
Shadow Web - 1
Avenger - Maxed
Alchemist - Maxed
Poison Bomb - Maxed
Triple Throw - Maxed
Venomous Star - Maxed

Credit to the guy who made the guide, which is stickied on BSmarket.

You get TT at 100 via quest, so SP should already be maxed by the time you get it. o:

BSmarket has one.

 Spoiler

SP Allocation:
Level 70: 1-Poison Bomb
Level 71: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 72: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 73: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 74: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 75: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 76: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 77: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 78: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 79: 3-Shadow Partner
Level 80: 3-Shadow PartnerMaxed
Level 81: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 82: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 83: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 84: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 85: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 86: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 87: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 88: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 89: 3-Poison Bomb
Level 90: 2-Poison BombMaxed, 1-Avenger
Level 91: 3-Avenger
Level 92: 3-Avenger
Level 93: 3-Avenger
Level 94: 1-Avenger, 2-Save
Level 95: 3-Save (5 Saved Points)
Level 96: 3-Save (8 Saved Points)
Level 97: 3-Save (11 Saved Points)
Level 98: 3-Save (14 Saved Points)
Level 99: 3-Save (17 Saved Points)
Level 100: 20-Triple ThrowMaxed
Level 101: 3-Avenger
Level 102: 3-Avenger
Level 103: 3-Avenger
Level 104: 3-Avenger
Level 105: 3-Avenger
Level 106: 3-Avenger
Level 107: 1-AvengerMaxed, 2-Save
Level 108: 3-Save (5 Saved Points)
Level 109: 3-Save (8 Saved Points)
Level 110: 11-Venomous Star
Level 111: 3-Venomous Star
Level 112: 3-Venomous Star
Level 113: 3-Venomous StarMaxed
Level 114: 3-Alchemist
Level 115: 3-Alchemist
Level 116: 3-Alchemist
Level 117: 3-Alchemist
Level 118: 3-Alchemist
Level 119: 3-Alchemist
Level 120: 2-Alchemist, 1-Shadow Web + Echo of a Hero free of charge

Shadow Partner - Maxed
Shadow Web - 1
Avenger - Maxed
Alchemist - Maxed
Poison Bomb - Maxed
Triple Throw - Maxed
Venomous Star - Maxed

Credit to the guy who made the guide, which is stickied on BSmarket.

You get TT at 100 via quest, so SP should already be maxed by the time you get it. o:

Thank you. I checked SW's NW guide, and I just had to laugh-my-f'cking-ass-off at their guide. It was complete and utter garbage, because most of the stuff I saw did not made sense, as the person who made that guide had very little to zero experience with that class. . . . <_< I'll use that 'build' as a guide for my own build, though mine will differ in some areas.

2nd question: Does anybody even bother maxing Vanish? Also, is it like how Shadowers uses DS into their attacks? Is it worth it? Are there any videos to show how a NW uses it at Pap, Zakum, or any other bosses?

Thank you. I checked SW's NW guide, and I just had to laugh-my-f'cking-ass-off at their guide. It was complete and utter garbage, because most of the stuff I saw did not made sense, as the person who made that guide had very little to zero experience with that class. . . . <_< I'll use that 'build' as a guide for my own build, though mine will differ in some areas.

2nd question: Does anybody even bother maxing Vanish? Also, is it like how Shadowers uses DS into their attacks? Is it worth it? Are there any videos to show how a NW uses it at Pap, Zakum, or any other bosses?

The builds are the only thing I bother looking at for classes I make, training areas and such, not so much. I usually train at the same places on each class, if their not good enough for that char, I look around till I find the right area.

@Vanish, I think it's left at 1, just to plant poison bombs during your DS, I wouldn't add anymore than 1 if I bothered to get my NW past 50.
As for videos, no idea, sorry. D;

Yeaaah^, looked up videos, all by newbs/n00bs that had a 4x or a 5x NW, didn't help me at all. It kinda annoys me to know that the gMS community doesn't have any talented NWs that could make a video to demonstrate how to use certain skills. Ugh.

I am stuck between 2 remaining skills for my CB and that is Pickpocket and Chakra. Which one of these should I max? and what benefits are there between these two?

Definitely Chakra over Pickpocket, unless you really like leaving a huge mess of coins. You (probably) won't use it after 120; the damage you get from PP coins is pathetic. (BoT should outdamage it at that point) Leave PP at level 11.

Maxing Chakra heals much more than Level 21 Chakra and reduces damage to 70% (iirc), which is awesome when combined with Meso Guard. (35%?) You could tank (better) if you have enough HP.
It's also a free self-heal, so you can potentially save mesos if you use it a lot.