Where did Pre Big Bang go wrong?

I don't care about the subject.

But I'm seeing one trend here. Everyone knows what everyone's opinion is. Yet, when asked for the 10th time, they respond the same. Oh what a shock.

Move on. Nobody is starting a serious conversation because there's nothing to start a serious conversation, not because everyone hates you.

The question is when was the best time to give up? Not if one should give up, two different questions.

What's the point of that question?
Let's supposed that we have a meaningful discussion and reach the conclusion that you should have given up in February 2014.
Now what?
Do you go back in time and undo all the posts since then?

Or maybe you're asking so you would you be able to recognize the correct point to stop nagging about your next obsession, whenever you find one?
That's not going to work, because situations are never quite the same and people who have a hard time understanding "No" will always find that tiny point of difference to say, "But this isn't the same as that was, so maybe this time there's a better chance?" You'd convince yourself to keep going. To never give up while there's a sliver of hope.

As for why people downvote your threads automatically: it's because they're all on the same topic.
To you it may look like each one is a unique perspective that deserves its own discussion, but to people who are not interested in PreBB at all, it all looks the same.

Let me give you an analogy:
Say that among a group of friends there is exactly one guy who is interested in soccer. Everyone else doesn't care and they're sick of his obsession with it. But this guy can't understand that. He keeps bringing up soccer-related topics, and everyone else shouts him down, and he's like, "But why?"
"We already told you the last 9000 times, shut up with the soccer already."
"But I never even talked about Messi before!"
"He's a soccer player. We don't want to hear it."
"But it's not about soccer at all, it's about this shoe commercial he was in - "
"We don't freaking care, ok?"
"But why....?"
It may be unfriendly or even intolerant, but that's how humans are.

Face it. You have burned the topic out. Here on Southperry, and on the official forums, and on the subreddit, everywhere people react with knee-jerk pomegranates because they see all your threads as nothing but excuses to bring up PreBB yet again. They don't care what new angle you think up, they don't want to hear it.

It's easy to say, "Just ignore it if you don't like it," but in a large enough group, there will always be those who can't resist.
It's better to let them just pomegranate/downvote, rather than press them for words, which are bound to be angry or demeaning.

But it's even better to not bring up a topic in a setting where you know people would not want to discuss it. Like your siggy says, "There's a time and place for everything, but not now," and I'll add, "and not here."

I don't care about the subject.

But I'm seeing one trend here. Everyone knows what everyone's opinion is. Yet, when asked for the 10th time, they respond the same. Oh what a shock.

Move on. Nobody is starting a serious conversation because there's nothing to start a serious conversation, not because everyone hates you.

Firstly I don't care that you don't care and even if you did hate me, I still wouldn't care. How presumptuous is it to think that you can decide for someone else when is the right time for them to move on? Where did I ask for a serious conversation? Please learn to read before making provocative posts.

Snip

I'm not even going to get mad at your critique because I actually rather like your analogies. But you are so wrong on this that I am shocked into stupification. I don't know why Feb 2014 is important to you but yes, that is the type of answer I was looking for. That's it, there is no next step.

The reason why the open ended question of this thread was asked is because I think IT IS important to determine when it could have been a good idea to declare the suggestion dead. Given Nexons dodgey treatment of the topic, someone answering that it was hopeless since the beginning could be just as correct as someone who says they will never quit.

My issue with your post is that you are suggesting that the answer doesn't matter and you are willing to give Nexon a free pass for not putting a stop to it. (which they could have done at any point, if for no other reason but to end the speculation)
Furthermore your analogy today is fatally flawed in that you have a soccer fan trying to talk to non soccer fans. Has Maplestories player base become so fragmented that you are openly willing to disavow fans of PreBB? Seriously?! And to make matters worse you do so for the sake of making excuses for Nexon not responding to a super easy question?

Maybe you are just misinformed but the PreBB topic got a knee jerk reaction pretty much since the very beginning of its inception. I also find it LOL worthy that anyone would try to take it to a personal level when you should know me well enough by now that I don't do anything unless I have a reason for it.

Like I have said before, if anyone wants to talk shop about PreBB then I am fair game but if the discussion is only going to devolve into whining and taking cheap shots at the other party for no other reason than "they won't give up" then me and you have wildly different views on what a forum is for.

Even if there is just one person holding out hope for something, I think it is a plantain move to give them a hard time when a final decision has not been reached. I will remind you that Nexon still hasn't said anything decisive and looking at any PreBB pizza slice will tell you right away that there is at least one person who still likes it.

- snip -

Yes, there are people who like PreBB, but what I am trying to tell you is "They are not here". Or on the official forums. Or on the subreddit.
These places are populated by players of the current version, and some of them react violently to the idea of removing the features they enjoy about the game.

You are free to try to talk about anything anywhere, but you'd have a much better chance of getting a meaningful answer if you talk to other people who have the same interests you do.

If you insist on talking soccer to basketball fans, don't be surprised that they pomegranate your posts. That's all I'm saying.

I think its a whole different game now. I mean, You could go and play a pre bigbang server and feel the nostalgia. But thats it. How can a game like that stay up? whos gonna pay for it?

I would like to have a game that make me feel like Maplestory did years ago. But it cant be maplestory, I enjoyed it back then and I enjoy it now. MMORPGs need to evolve to be popular, MS did. And most of people that played preBB and didnt like what it became just moved on. You should do the same. Its like wanting to go back to an old gf, you had the best time of your life with her, and now that you want it back, shes married with 2 childs. MOVE ON

I think its a whole different game now. I mean, You could go and play a pre bigbang server and feel the nostalgia. But thats it. How can a game like that stay up? whos gonna pay for it?

I would like to have a game that make me feel like Maplestory did years ago. But it cant be maplestory, I enjoyed it back then and I enjoy it now. MMORPGs need to evolve to be popular, MS did. And most of people that played preBB and didnt like what it became just moved on. You should do the same. Its like wanting to go back to an old gf, you had the best time of your life with her, and now that you want it back, shes married with 2 childs. MOVE ON

The problem with your post is that you ignored what the thread is about and it appears to try and take a personal dig at me. I don't mind but I want to ask if that is what you meant to do before I give a reply to a post that might or might not be inflammatory. For now I will assume that I misunderstood the message.

Yes, there are people who like PreBB, but what I am trying to tell you is "They are not here". Or on the official forums. Or on the subreddit.
These places are populated by players of the current version, and some of them react violently to the idea of removing the features they enjoy about the game.

You are free to try to talk about anything anywhere, but you'd have a much better chance of getting a meaningful answer if you talk to other people who have the same interests you do.

If you insist on talking soccer to basketball fans, don't be surprised that they pomegranate your posts. That's all I'm saying.

Careful Sapta, some of those sweeping assumptions that you are making might start costing credibility if its something false. I genuinely hope that you are not saying that PreBB discussion has no place on a Maplestory forum, as soccer discussion would be out of place on a basketball forum.

The history of PreBB is (sadly) one of the minority being steadily driven away, I default to giving people the benefit of the doubt but I can only overlook so much. Had Nexon clearly said "no" they are not going to do it then I would probably be agreeing with you but since they have not, it leads me to question the motives of the people involved. If you want to have blind obedience to Nexon or whatever you would like to call it then that is fine but that doesn't mean I am going to agree with it.

To each their own.

Firstly I don't care that you don't care and even if you did hate me, I still wouldn't care. How presumptuous is it to think that you can decide for someone else when is the right time for them to move on? Where did I ask for a serious conversation? Please learn to read before making provocative posts.

You ask for a conversation the moment you click the "Post thread" button. The quality of the discussion is generated based on the general consensus of the forum readers, not the thread starter. This thread was doomed to die. There's no arguing that. You demanded a conversation, for people to explain why they didn't like the thread, and they did. They offered what they had to say: That it wasn't worth saying anything.

This is exactly what you wanted, even if the results aren't what you thought, and I was trying to explain it. But of course, we are the presumptuous ones. Listening to us serves no purpose unless we respond what you wanted to hear.

So enjoy your constructive discussion! Or search for past discussions about this subject, and compare them to nowadays if you really want to bring something slightly new. You'll find the answers are already there. And haven't changed at all.

- snip -

It's not a question of what I want, it's a question of what I have observed.

When three different MapleStory forums (I don't look at Basil but I suspect they react the same way) respond in the same violently negative way to the same topic, I conclude that that topic does not belong in such forums. Or, at the very least, that if one insists on continuing to post that topic in those forums, one should be prepared to accept the reaction. Acting surprised at it every time loses you crediblity.

You ask for a conversation the moment you click the "Post thread" button. The quality of the discussion is generated based on the general consensus of the forum readers, not the thread starter. This thread was doomed to die. There's no arguing that. You demanded a conversation, for people to explain why they didn't like the thread, and they did. They offered what they had to say: That it wasn't worth saying anything.

This is exactly what you wanted, even if the results aren't what you thought, and I was trying to explain it. But of course, we are the presumptuous ones. Listening to us serves no purpose unless we respond what you wanted to hear.

So enjoy your constructive discussion! Or search for past discussions about this subject, and compare them to nowadays if you really want to bring something slightly new. You'll find the answers are already there. And haven't changed at all.

Saying nothing is not the same thing as casting a downvote.
I can comprehend some of what you are trying to say but you also said that the answer to the question "Where did Pre Big Bang go wrong?" already exists somewhere that can be searched. If that is case then please provide a link so that I may be enlightened.

It's not a question of what I want, it's a question of what I have observed.

When three different MapleStory forums (I don't look at Basil but I suspect they react the same way) respond in the same violently negative way to the same topic, I conclude that that topic does not belong in such forums. Or, at the very least, that if one insists on continuing to post that topic in those forums, one should be prepared to accept the reaction. Acting surprised at it every time loses you crediblity.

You stated that there were no players at all that like PreBB on Southperry
That there were no players at all that like PreBB on the Subreddit
And that there were no players at all that like PreBB on the official forum

These statements appear to be quite obviously wrong and yet you said them as if it were no big deal.

I have no issue with there being a reaction but I do care if it is a reaction that actually has some meaning. Making personal attacks and cheap shots only shows that the side in disagreement is not capable of handling a real discussion. If someone has something to say about a topic then they should by all means do so but running around screaming and trying to create a negative atmosphere does nothing to detract from a topic of debate. Somebody thinks different than someone else?! BIG WHOOP.

And yes I still do get surprised because either the Maplestory player base is so separated and broken that people for reals don't care about other players or certain groups of players are ok with what looks like a one sided response to target others for no other reason but liking something different and/or not giving up right away. (which is what I saw in the earliest PreBB threads from years ago that I was able to find)

To clarify what I am talking about, I have little interest in how someone on a forum feels about me in a personal way but as a gamer, I care very much about the opinion of other gamers. Depending on the topic.

If someone thinks giving up at some point sooner would have been better, I'd like to hear why and if someone thinks not giving up is better I'd like to hear why.

How many years was it? and this topic is still a thing? I don't think there's anything that could be said that hasn't been said already about pre-big bang maplestory.

The tittle doesn't make sense to me. I suppose you mean "When did maplestory go wrong?" not pre big bang.

For me things started going wrong when potential was added and all the focus of the game was redirected towards it.

As for a Pre BigBang / current maplestory argument goes, I have to say that even though I enjoyed my time playing prior to 4th job the most, had the game stayed like that I would, most likely, have quitted many years ago. Like others have said games have to grow and evolve in order to stay relevant and maplestory is no exception.

^
Same. I thought I had some reading comprehension problem but apparently this whole thread is just very confusing. I don't even understand what it is about. The title makes no sense, and I don't really understand the contents either.

Pre-BB was good with the standards of ten years ago. If Maple is still like that now, I would have quit long ago. I do like a few things of Pre-BB, but I prefer the game as it is right now.

In my opinion, nothing went wrong. Some of the decisions were awkward, but the whole game as it is right now is way better than pre-BB.

Seriously though. I think I do have reading comprehension problem. What exactly do you mean by "give up on PreBB"? Like, stop thinking about it or what? How do you give up a thing that no longer exists?

The tittle doesn't make sense to me. I suppose you mean "When did maplestory go wrong?" not pre big bang.

For me things started going wrong when potential was added and all the focus of the game was redirected towards it.

As for a Pre BigBang / current maplestory argument goes, I have to say that even though I enjoyed my time playing prior to 4th job the most, had the game stayed like that I would, most likely, have quitted many years ago. Like others have said games have to grow and evolve in order to stay relevant and maplestory is no exception.

^
Same. I thought I had some reading comprehension problem but apparently this whole thread is just very confusing. I don't even understand what it is about. The title makes no sense, and I don't really understand the contents either.

Pre-BB was good with the standards of ten years ago. If Maple is still like that now, I would have quit long ago. I do like a few things of Pre-BB, but I prefer the game as it is right now.

In my opinion, nothing went wrong. Some of the decisions were awkward, but the whole game as it is right now is way better than pre-BB.

Seriously though. I think I do have reading comprehension problem. What exactly do you mean by "give up on PreBB"? Like, stop thinking about it or what? How do you give up a thing that no longer exists?

"Where did Pre Big bang go wrong?" As in when do you think was the right time to stop asking Nexon about it or anything that the ones who first began the request for PreBB could have done differently?

Well, maybe the REQUEST itself is the problem, they just won't bring it back, even if you think they could add a extra world like reboot or supreme world, with the today's maple fasting lving, flash and stuff, it would go worst than Maple2 did in Korea before they started to bring uptates, they bringed UPTATES to make it better and good to play, so pre-bb isn't that good since it wouldn't get uptates like a normal game do, even if it does get uptates, which i high doubt nexon wold go that far in the first place.

And if it does it still would be a fail for today's world, people just have too much anxiet, they don't have much patience, i see some people saying how they can't go past lv120 these days, imagine playing pre-bb, i don't think it would have much people to justifty the make of a new server pre-bb..

It seems you're misinterpreting, I'm just waiting for the license to go on sale and I'll buy it and fix all of it.

I think its a whole different game now. I mean, You could go and play a pre bigbang server and feel the nostalgia. But thats it. How can a game like that stay up? whos gonna pay for it?

How can a game like Reboot-MS stay up? who's gonna pay for it? why hasn't it been shut down?

maybe it's because selling power has pineapple-all to do with marketability.

Reboot isn't a separate game though. The other servers pay for it. I'm sure Nexon is benefitting from Reboot in many different ways.

Reboot isn't a separate game though. The other servers pay for it. I'm sure Nexon is benefitting from Reboot in many different ways.

lmao.

trust me, if Reboot wasn't making them any money, they would drop that pomegranate in a heartbeat.

"Where did Pre Big bang go wrong?" As in when do you think was the right time to stop asking Nexon about it or anything that the ones who first began the request for PreBB could have done differently?

Should have stopped asking after it happened. Regardless of the reception (even though most of it was positive) a game dev isn't going to go back on their decision after the patch is live. Literally the only thing nexon (at this point in time) could do is implement some type of legacy server but from my experience of playing some unofficial servers of that nature.. it gets old fast.. and to be honest, if you look at the players that would return for nostalgia sakes (if a pre-bb server was to open), a large percentage of them have jobs and other commitments by now, pre-bb maplestory was a grind, it took a lot of work just to get to the point where you could boss effectlively and enjoy many aspects of the game most of them would give up maybe even before level 30.

pre-bb maplestory was a grind,

It would be in a different thread where I got into the nitty gritty of the rest of the post but you do realize that Maplestory is still a grind right? The only difference is that in today's game the gravy on top is better. (assuming a person cares about the gravy)

Well, maybe the REQUEST itself is the problem, they just won't bring it back, even if you think they could add a extra world like reboot or supreme world, with the today's maple fasting lving, flash and stuff, it would go worst than Maple2 did in Korea before they started to bring uptates, they bringed UPTATES to make it better and good to play, so pre-bb isn't that good since it wouldn't get uptates like a normal game do, even if it does get uptates, which i high doubt nexon wold go that far in the first place.

And if it does it still would be a fail for today's world, people just have too much anxiet, they don't have much patience, i see some people saying how they can't go past lv120 these days, imagine playing pre-bb, i don't think it would have much people to justifty the make of a new server pre-bb..

I know what you are referring to about it being a slower kind of game but the question the thread is trying to get at is where did making the request for a Pre Big bang server go wrong? (not necessarily what is good or bad about Pre big bang itself)

For example:
Person A believes that asking Nexon about PreBB was doomed from the start. Why? Person A says because Nexon is greedy and cant be trusted.

On the other hand,
Person B believes that there still could be a chance. Why? Person B says that even though asking about it has been banned on the official forum, Nexon has not said they won't do it.


See what I mean? Both beliefs could be equally valid, which is why I could currently go either way.
Of course there are other points of view too but these are two of the most extreme.
(it sucks to be Nexon, because their actions appear to have failed both sides)