MLC wants to implement 'pay to enter' extra exp dungeons.

This was actually Hime's idea but it wasn't implemented because reasons, I don't know why they took it from the hat now, unless Artasi is taking credit for it, which is kind of sh`itty

I don't think he ever presented it as his own. Always "we" as in "Nexon".

It's because you're Southperry staff, that's the only reason.

That was basically Artasi making sure that staff of fansites he personally doesn't approve of don't apply regardless of how qualified they'd be. So you know, us.

Maybe. It was before we lost our official fansite status.
Also, since he's the final arbiter of who gets in, he didn't need to put any artificial blocks in the nomination process. Nobody could make him accept a nominee he didn't like.

don't say that, girasol was great

She was great but she also didn't know everything that was going on. It's pretty much impossible for any one person to do.

I am just so critical of the MLC as a whole. To be frank, if all they'll be is another layer of opaque bureaucracy, what's the point in having them in the first place?

I seem to get the impression that they want us to respect them and give them a chance, but that's something that must be earned. Why should I give them a chance if they haven't demonstrated to me that they can make changes, and then, not just changes but changes that I would like to see? That isn't to say they should do everything I want, but they should do something. I get that this is a volunteer position and all, but that shouldn't mean they only do things when convenient for them, this should be a major time investment. Doing volunteer work is generally a thankless job, they already shouldn't expect any different, however, this, basically being a volunteer politician, is going to be much worse. They cannot expect people not to make criticisms when their work is supposed to be in the interest of the public. If they don't have the time, or if they aren't doing what the majority wants, then it should be tough cookies, off the council.

This shouldn't be the cool kids club, if they want to stay, they should have to work to cater to the majority.

I am just so critical of the MLC as a whole. To be frank, if all they'll be is another layer of opaque bureaucracy, what's the point in having them in the first place?

I, as well as others feel that the most qualified/mature person in the MLC is Zelkova. He's the only one I feel that is proactive and has a decent head on his shoulders and is going out of his way to try and do something with the MLC- ie making a site to show what they're discussing and such. I don't recall the name of it, otherwise I'd link it.

That being said, he hardly plays ms1...so that says something about the MLC as a whole.

I seem to get the impression that they want us to respect them and give them a chance, but that's something that must be earned. Why should I give them a chance if they haven't demonstrated to me that they can make changes, and then, not just changes but changes that I would like to see? That isn't to say they should do everything I want, but they should do something. I get that this is a volunteer position and all, but that shouldn't mean they only do things when convenient for them, this should be a major time investment. Doing volunteer work is generally a thankless job, they already shouldn't expect any different, however, this, basically being a volunteer politician, is going to be much worse. They cannot expect people not to make criticisms when their work is supposed to be in the interest of the public. If they don't have the time, or if they aren't doing what the majority wants, then it should be tough cookies, off the council.

This shouldn't be the cool kids club, if they want to stay, they should have to work to cater to the majority.

Have you seen this mess of a shadower thread on the subreddit? Who even thought this guy would make a good representative. It gave me a good, hardy laugh though.

First time I logged in SP in years. I'm glad I didn't get picked for MLC.

She was great but she also didn't know everything that was going on. It's pretty much impossible for any one person to do.

it is pretty much impossible, but she did a good enough job at it (plus, can't hold someone to impossible standards either)

And she was fired for it

didn't even need saying

If they're going to add pomegranate from eMS they need to add Veracent.

I seem to get the impression that they want us to respect them and give them a chance, but that's something that must be earned.

I completely agree.

I feel that a lot of people for some reason think that the MLC are like mini-GM's or something. They're not. We are just funnels for community concerns. That's it.

Why should I give them a chance if they haven't demonstrated to me that they can make changes, and then, not just changes but changes that I would like to see?

All we can do is submit ideas/community responses and see what Nexon wants to do. We hold no actual power when it comes to making decisions.

This shouldn't be the cool kids club, if they want to stay, they should have to work to cater to the majority.

IDK if I agree with many of the choices made. This is just the first run and there is/was a lot to be learned from it. We will see what happens with the second attempt.

Maybe. It was before we lost our official fansite status.
Also, since he's the final arbiter of who gets in, he didn't need to put any artificial blocks in the nomination process. Nobody could make him accept a nominee he didn't like.

Justifying it to himself, I suppose.

Some notes here for everyone:


@MLC:

From what I see, the Community favors the improvement and revamps of existing training areas over the addition of any kind of "paid training area", etc. I therefore direct the MLC to focus instead on reviewing existing training areas, including "popular" training paths, and work to review what could be done to improve EXP, Ease-of-Access, and Rewards from training in less popular and overlooked areas.


@Community:

The Council isn't saying they have a proposal on this at the ready or that they are rushing to try to implement this, they are simply using this thread as a means to gauge how the Community feels, as they should. They are also not necessarily saying this should be implemented exactly as it was in EMS.

Your feedback is totally valued by the Council, but railing against them for bringing this up does not help at all, as they were simply trying to seek input from a larger audience, again, as they should.

I know and see that the Council is working hard to cover as much ground they can with each topic they discuss. Sometimes topics, like these Mini-Dungeons, come up that sound like a good idea on the surface that end up being a bit more negative when dug into. This makes it so much more important to gather the opinion of the Community on each issue they work on.

This process is made much easier when constructive feedback is given as to why you would disagree with this being implemented, what you would rather see implemented yourself, and, most importantly, how does this affect your MapleStory experience personally?


---


As it has shown, a majority of the Community does not favor this idea to be implemented in any form, and therefore Nexon will not accept any proposals on this topic.

I wonder whether this was really some Councillor's idea, or Artasi is just letting them take the fall for something that he proposed to them and tasked them with getting public opinion on.
That "Nexon will not accept any proposals on this topic" sounds like the lady is protesting a bit too much.

Either way, I'm glad that's off the table, and hope they can come up with something a bit more agreeable to fix the congestion issues.

Well, I'm sorry to here the MLC's first public attempt at doing something flopped so soundly. I had some hopes for the original idea, but the selection process left me highly skeptical. I didn't even recognize any of the council members outside of Zelkova and Bryan and that was a major red flag. MapleStory's most dedicated players have never been fond of the official forums, for a host of reasons that don't need reiterated here, and it appeared to me that many of the selected members were pulled from there. What? If Artasi had really wanted to pick class experts, presumably because they wanted feedback about class skills (???), all he had to do was look through the subsections here and on basil briefly to see who was answering the hundreds of questions. Either Artasi didn't actually want class experts/game experts in general or he was too lazy to actually make an honest attempt. There were less than 6 "experts" in archers across all the forums, youtube, etc. and more than one applied for the jobs, but only one was picked. Was there ever even a Mercedes rep? There are people that spent obscene amounts of time compiling game knowledge and disseminating it both in game, through fansites, and occasionally taking the ultimate battle to the official forums when there was no hope left. /rant

So apparently I still have a little passion left for this game after all even though I haven't touched it in months. I'm sure whoever the archer rep is making an attempt to improve things (cue conspiracy theories), but it only took me 10s on basil to see BMs are utterly unplayable and have the same skills bugged as when I left. They aren't even complaining anymore and instead indulge in fantasies out of sheer delirium.

So many of the most qualified and passionate people who would really volunteer their time to make this game great again have given up and moved. There are still a few around that I recognize and a few new ones have even appeared to take our place, but I can't help but think this attempt was doomed before it began even if it had Nexon's best intentions.

I really shouldn't have fallen into the black whole that is this game so I'm just going to post this even though it's incomplete and there's a lot more I'd like to say.

I feel that a lot of people for some reason think that the MLC are like mini-GM's or something. They're not. We are just funnels for community concerns. That's it.

Just a word of advice. You either pick "they" or "we", you'll sound more uniform.

All we can do is submit ideas/community responses and see what Nexon wants to do. We hold no actual power when it comes to making decisions.

You guys have more power than you know. You have a voice that is actually heard. I don't know if I agree with the choice of candidates but you guys are what we got, who else to criticize to push our ideas than those who have a voice, the voice that is supposed to be our support?

Thing is in order to sustain a professional appearance before the MLC members post anything big or controversial as this, you guys should have throughly discussed it. I'm no expert but when proposing these ideas without the power to act, other options should have been proposed as well not just "Hey lets bring Mini-dungeons back but require NX!! Good idea? OKAY!!"

Instead:
"Hello guys,

We the MLC thought it'd be neat to bring back Mini-Dungeons. What do you guys think?

Our idea is simple:
-insert blah blah blah point 1-

We were also thinking about charging NX for bonus entries but having free passes like RLH. What do you guys think? Should we do that or have some sort of different way to go about it?

Thanks for your input guys, we're looking forward from hearing from you."

If it was typed like that, I don't think anyone else would've minded at all. It's all about catering to the needs of the community and getting opinions and input. If you ask a close-ended question, you guys aren't going to get far. The MLC should be voiced as a unison, however all I ever hear is: blah blah blah, not my fault it was some other representative etc. I don't really agree with that mindset at all and it's not professional.

I'm very disappointed in how the outcome of the MLC has come to.

I wonder whether this was really some Councillor's idea, or Artasi is just letting them take the fall for something that he proposed to them and tasked them with getting public opinion on.
That "Nexon will not accept any proposals on this topic" sounds like the lady is protesting a bit too much.

Either way, I'm glad that's off the table, and hope they can come up with something a bit more agreeable to fix the congestion issues.

Regardless, Artasi is not addressing the issue at hand. There are certain ways to ask things and engage the community. I know he was looking for people who seem to have a pretty good hand in the community with large audiences, however, placing them in other settings will lead to what we see now. Besides being popular, I believe there are many people on the forums who I think will do fairly well in those settings as I have witnessed on other forums. I don't know them personally but from speech patterns, ability to lead/direct and especially the ability to cater to the community without bias on necessary inputs, I'm pretty sure it would've been a step in the right direction.

As you can see here, something else is being proposed already.

Well, I'm sorry to here the MLC's first public attempt at doing something flopped so soundly. I had some hopes for the original idea, but the selection process left me highly skeptical. I didn't even recognize any of the council members outside of Zelkova and Bryan and that was a major red flag. MapleStory's most dedicated players have never been fond of the official forums, for a host of reasons that don't need reiterated here, and it appeared to me that many of the selected members were pulled from there. What? If Artasi had really wanted to pick class experts, presumably because they wanted feedback about class skills (???), all he had to do was look through the subsections here and on basil briefly to see who was answering the hundreds of questions. Either Artasi didn't actually want class experts/game experts in general or he was too lazy to actually make an honest attempt. There were less than 6 "experts" in archers across all the forums, youtube, etc. and more than one applied for the jobs, but only one was picked. Was there ever even a Mercedes rep? There are people that spent obscene amounts of time compiling game knowledge and disseminating it both in game, through fansites, and occasionally taking the ultimate battle to the official forums when there was no hope left. /rant

So apparently I still have a little passion left for this game after all even though I haven't touched it in months. I'm sure whoever the archer rep is making an attempt to improve things (cue conspiracy theories), but it only took me 10s on basil to see BMs are utterly unplayable and have the same skills bugged as when I left. They aren't even complaining anymore and instead indulge in fantasies out of sheer delirium.

So many of the most qualified and passionate people who would really volunteer their time to make this game great again have given up and moved. There are still a few around that I recognize and a few new ones have even appeared to take our place, but I can't help but think this attempt was doomed before it began even if it had Nexon's best intentions.

I really shouldn't have fallen into the black whole that is this game so I'm just going to post this even though it's incomplete and there's a lot more I'd like to say.

I agree with you. For the most part if you are a frequent forum browser like myself across multiple platforms, it's pretty easy to see things from a bigger perspective. I frequent BasilMarket[and other sites] and look through all the sections, not just a specific one and can pretty much pull names out of my head to who has the notable knowledge for what. Aside from that, you see the same issues across different boards whether is be here on SP, BasilMarket, Reddit, Official forums, YouTube, and even some personal blogs.

All we can do is submit ideas/community responses and see what Nexon wants to do. We hold no actual power when it comes to making decisions.

IDK if I agree with many of the choices made. This is just the first run and there is/was a lot to be learned from it. We will see what happens with the second attempt.

That's already more power than most of us have. I still remember the resolution not to limit PQs from a little while ago, no one asked me what I would've liked and the fact that it went through so silently reeks of abuse of power, the first I heard of it was when it was enacted. They've already lost a lot of my trust with that, so did you when you initially removed the "MLC ineffectiveness" thread rather than just locking it (I feel like I should clarify that this is the only point in this post where I don't use "you" in a general sense, also, thank you for bringing it back). That should've been up for discussion, this should have never even been on the map.

As far as I know, you guys are still working out the details, yeah? If the program is in that stage, then it should be up to the community to decide what they can do, up to Nexon's, what I would consider limited, maximum, and how they are run. There shouldn't have even been members at this point. Besides that, for something like this, in its infancy, you're gonna need a lot of turnover to see what works and what doesn't. If you guys vote on this kind of stuff before bringing it to us, we should be able to see how you vote. If we get some awful cash grab update and it has the support of the MLC, you better believe I want to know it. I don't want any of this "Oh, the other MLC members might have felt this way, but I didn't" bullpomegranate, if you didn't, prove it. For a program like this, this information shouldn't be hidden behind an NDA. The members need to have some kind of accountability to the players and if we feel they're out of touch, they should be gone, otherwise what is this really, other than a poorly executed popularity contest? I am willing to give chances, probably more than a lot of people here, but at this point in the game (even I will admit Maple as a game is dying), they are limited. If the MLC brings up stuff like this, they're wasting time and killing my trust in them and they should know it.

"Stop criticizing us, we're doing the best we can" isn't a valid retort when you have an entire community relying on you, open criticism is necessary. To choose to be on the MLC is to choose to be a public servant, you are not a free agent, you belong to the people. That should be the mentality of all the people on the council.

Most councillors do not read southperry. If you guys have ideas, opinions or feedback, post on basil, reddit or the official forums.

I have so much more I want to say but can't.
Not yet at least.

Most councillors do not read southperry. If you guys have ideas, opinions or feedback, post on basil, reddit or the official forums.

I have so much more I want to say but can't.
Not yet at least.

As far as I'm concerned most of them don't know how to read

That's already more power than most of us have. I still remember the resolution not to limit PQs from a little while ago, no one asked me what I would've liked and the fact that it went through so silently reeks of abuse of power, the first I heard of it was when it was enacted. They've already lost a lot of my trust with that, so did you when you initially removed the "MLC ineffectiveness" thread rather than just locking it (I feel like I should clarify that this is the only point in this post where I don't use "you" in a general sense, also, thank you for bringing it back). That should've been up for discussion, this should have never even been on the map.

As far as I know, you guys are still working out the details, yeah? If the program is in that stage, then it should be up to the community to decide what they can do, up to Nexon's, what I would consider limited, maximum, and how they are run. There shouldn't have even been members at this point. Besides that, for something like this, in its infancy, you're gonna need a lot of turnover to see what works and what doesn't. If you guys vote on this kind of stuff before bringing it to us, we should be able to see how you vote. If we get some awful cash grab update and it has the support of the MLC, you better believe I want to know it. I don't want any of this "Oh, the other MLC members might have felt this way, but I didn't" bullpomegranate, if you didn't, prove it. For a program like this, this information shouldn't be hidden behind an NDA. The members need to have some kind of accountability to the players and if we feel they're out of touch, they should be gone, otherwise what is this really, other than a poorly executed popularity contest? I am willing to give chances, probably more than a lot of people here, but at this point in the game (even I will admit Maple as a game is dying), they are limited. If the MLC brings up stuff like this, they're wasting time and killing my trust in them and they should know it.

"Stop criticizing us, we're doing the best we can" isn't a valid retort when you have an entire community relying on you, open criticism is necessary. To choose to be on the MLC is to choose to be a public servant, you are not a free agent, you belong to the people. That should be the mentality of all the people on the council.

Thank you for bringing up MLC voting responsibility. I'll bring this up to the council/Artasi so that we can discuss/vote/etc on it. This would be a really useful feature to have added to the council.

In regards to the PQ thing, we could not ask the public really about this. It was something that was brought to our attention prior to the patch. The MLC as a whole thought it was important enough to try to stop before the patch went live.

I am not quite sure on what we can and cannot share in situations like this. We would have needed specific clearance from Nexon to ask the community about this due to our NDA's.

Lastly, do not mix my role as a moderator on reddit with my MLC position. If you're pissed off at my decision to remove the thread, be mad at me for being a mod, not a MLC member.

@LuciferLied; I'll be sure to send your concerns about the wording of future questions to the MLC for review. Thank you for your assistance.

In regards to the PQ thing, we could not ask the public really about this. It was something that was brought to our attention prior to the patch. The MLC as a whole thought it was important enough to try to stop before the patch went live.

I am not quite sure on what we can and cannot share in situations like this. We would have needed specific clearance from Nexon to ask the community about this due to our NDA's.

Taking action without community input leaves you open to suspicion of acting in the name of self-interest. To me, this could look like a reckless abuse of power that happened to work out well (as far as I know, anyway, I haven't seen much backlash). It's risky and probably not something that you should do at the beginning of the program, when you don't have much credibility. Also, the action is more memorable than the explanation after will ever be, like with the topic below. I'm well aware your hands are tied but that doesn't change the way I feel. I would say the general public cares very little about why you can't, and more so just that you can't.

Lastly, do not mix my role as a moderator on reddit with my MLC position. If you're pissed off at my decision to remove the thread, be mad at me for being a mod, not a MLC member.

Don't mistake my suspicion for anger. The fact that you are both already puts you under additional scrutiny, regardless of your ability to separate your responsibilities. And it will always be like that, no matter how much you ask people not to (which actually makes it worse, I think, something along the lines of "thou doth protest too much"). I'm aware of how that feels and I'm sorry for that, but I can't stop myself from being suspicious of your motives after doing something like that. But it's pointless to worry about that, you know, people always talk.

The way I see it, at this point in time, actions are far more important than words. This general approach works well when you have a pretty new game, but we've already had years of what feels like empty promises, the last thing we need is more things that seem like that. I guess that's why the MLC faces such harsh criticism, from older players at least, you're not starting fresh, you have to do extra work to claw your way out of the failure of previous attempts.

The way I see it, at this point in time, actions are far more important than words. This general approach works well when you have a pretty new game, but we've already had years of what feels like empty promises, the last thing we need is more things that seem like that. I guess that's why the MLC faces such harsh criticism, from older players at least, you're not starting fresh, you have to do extra work to claw your way out of the failure of previous attempts.

I totally agree with this. This isn't anything personal directed towards you guys. You guys are now the voice for the public as well as on Nexon's behalf. Failed attempts prior on Nexon's behalf and the others that held a similar position before you lead to the skeptical mindsets people have towards this. If you're gonna do it, make sure your promises are backed up with actions.

As said many times before, a lot of people don't like the idea but we're here to be proven wrong. We're tired of empty promises. If you're going to ask the ideas of the public, take them into perspective. You don't have to promise us anything, we just want a voice to be heard.

Thank you for bringing up MLC voting responsibility. I'll bring this up to the council/Artasi so that we can discuss/vote/etc on it. This would be a really useful feature to have added to the council.

In regards to the PQ thing, we could not ask the public really about this. It was something that was brought to our attention prior to the patch. The MLC as a whole thought it was important enough to try to stop before the patch went live.

I am not quite sure on what we can and cannot share in situations like this. We would have needed specific clearance from Nexon to ask the community about this due to our NDA's.

Lastly, do not mix my role as a moderator on reddit with my MLC position. If you're pissed off at my decision to remove the thread, be mad at me for being a mod, not a MLC member.

@LuciferLied; I'll be sure to send your concerns about the wording of future questions to the MLC for review. Thank you for your assistance.

I don't understand why you haven't made a "Make maplestory better" thread, yes we have it every year, but it seems the MLC is looking for idea's, and you know this website could save them months worth of think tanking

I don't understand why you haven't made a "Make maplestory better" thread, yes we have it every year, but it seems the MLC is looking for idea's, and you know this website could save them months worth of think tanking

We have a couple of things to finish up on our end first.

I can discuss this with everyone today. It seems like a very good idea.

We have a couple of things to finish up on our end first.

I can discuss this with everyone today. It seems like a very good idea.

The thing about southperry is people have been stewing over these concepts since what, like 2010?I think we need a thread where we have the 'alumni' officially communicate again since we have a system that wants changes but has no idea what the hell to do to start. I mean I know you and I would say a good portion of MLP weren't involved with the suggestion of the dungeon, but it really does show a disconnect.