Onyx Ring Discussion

ifficulty trying to understand your chart and description :o
Mind explaining again in a more simpler term and how to read your chart? :o

You take the average of your min and max critical damage, and read it off the left-most column. In that row, you get to tell 1) the DPS increase from a 5% increase in average crit damage (from a 10% increase in min or maxcritdmg), and 2) the other 4 columns indicate how much %STAT you must possess in order for the same DPS increase to be matched by 10, 20, 30, or 40%STAT e.g. from a you intend to replace.

So for example, if you have 50% average critical damage, then a 5% increase in average critical damage is 3.33% increase in DPS [which comes from (1.55/1.50 - 1)]. This 3.33% increase in DPS is the same as a) either having an additional 10%STAT when you already have 233%STAT, b) having an additional 20%STAT when you already have 500%STAT, and so on.

I have discovered a mistake in my previous post, which caused all tables to show an additional 100%STAT needed. This is because I didn't take the base calculation for %STAT as 100% [i.e. when you have 50%STAT, the multiplier to your STAT is 1.5, not 0.5, but it showed the multiplier value instead]. Working at 2am... Please do not use the tables that you quoted.

Hadriel

You take the average of your min and max critical damage, and read it off the left-most column. In that row, you get to tell 1) the DPS increase from a 5% increase in average crit damage (from a 10% increase in min or maxcritdmg), and 2) the other 4 columns indicate how much %STAT you must possess in order for the same DPS increase to be matched by 10, 20, 30, or 40%STAT e.g. from a you intend to replace.

So for example, if you have 50% average critical damage, then a 5% increase in average critical damage is 3.33% increase in DPS [which comes from (1.55/1.50 - 1)]. This 3.33% increase in DPS is the same as a) either having an additional 10%STAT when you already have 233%STAT, b) having an additional 20%STAT when you already have 500%STAT, and so on.

I have discovered a mistake in my previous post, which caused all tables to show an additional 100%STAT needed. This is because I didn't take the base calculation for %STAT as 100% [i.e. when you have 50%STAT, the multiplier to your STAT is 1.5, not 0.5, but it showed the multiplier value instead]. Working at 2am... Please do not use the tables that you quoted.

Hadriel

oh... thanks a lot, that's so much easier to understand!

If I am to give the credit to you, may I use the table as example for others?
If not that's fine too, I'll just use this table for myself.

Thanks

i love the math-leets on Southperry

oh... thanks a lot, that's so much easier to understand!

If I am to give the credit to you, may I use the table as example for others?
If not that's fine too, I'll just use this table for myself.

Thanks

You're welcome. You have permission to use it (just link it back here with acknowledgements). That's because occasionally people will need to see the full picture instead of just e.g. one line of numbers.

Hadriel

You're welcome. You have permission to use it (just link it back here with acknowledgements). That's because occasionally people will need to see the full picture instead of just e.g. one line of numbers.

Hadriel

Ok, now that I know how to read the table.
I just have a few more question to clarify.

To find my average critical damage, I just have to take my "min" divide by "max" and multiply by 100 right?

So let's say I have 65% min and 76% max, my average would be 85%?

Should I be looking at 85% DPS increase of 2.7% or 90% DPS increase of 2.63% if the avgcritdmg is increased by 5%?

My other question is, how do I find out the avgcritdmg increased anyway?
Because the potential gives you either 10% min or max but not both so I've been wondering how do you get the 5%?

Wouldn't it be more logical if let's say... I add the 10% min or max to my current min or max and divide it by 100 to get the new average?

Say for example, if I increase my min by 10%.

I will have 75% min and 76% max, my new average is 98% and I guess my DPS will be increased by approximately 2.5%?

And if I am to increase my max instead of min, I would have 65% min and 86% max.
My new average would be... 75% and that means my DPS will be increased by 2.86%?

Sorry if I don't make any sense, I'm not all that good with maths

@Hadriel: Your numbers are 100% greater than they should be in your tables: 270% should be 170% etc.

Um... I'm sorry, I'm having difficulty trying to understand your chart and description :o
Mind explaining again in a more simpler term and how to read your chart? :o

Average crit damage = (max crit + min crit)/2. The DPS column shows how much increasing your average crit damage will change your DPS based on your current average crit damage. Note: increasing your min or max crit damage by X will increase your average crit damage by 0.5X.

The vs Y% stat columns show what %stat you would need to get the same damage increase from the listed %stat, though his numbers are 100% higher than they should be.

For example, looking at the first row in the first table, a 10% min or max crit damage line would increase your DPS by 3.7% if your average crit damage was 35%. If you had a ring with 10% stat to use instead, it'd give about the same damage boost if you had 170% stat. It'd give a greater damage boost if you have less than the %stat in the cell.

The math is quite simple. We first start by assuming crit rate to be 100% to simplify the calculations. It'd be rather easy to compute for lower crit rates, but then there wouldn't be a proper table (it'd be 3 dimensional). Anyways, as stated your average crit damage is the average of your minimum and maximum crit values. With 65% min and 76% max, your average crit damage is 70.5% This means whenever you land a critical hit you will do on average 170.5% of the damage you would deal without a critical. In other words, crits multiply your damage by 1.705 on average. By increasing your minimum or maximum crit by 10%, your average crit damage increases by 5%, making you deal 1.755 times more damage on average instead of 1.705. By dividing the new damage by the old, you can obtain the %damage difference. 1.755 / 1.705 = 1.029. In other words, 1.705 * 1.029 = 1.755, so your damage will be multiplied by 1.029. This is a 2.9% increase to your damage output assuming 100% crit.

@Hadriel: Your numbers are 100% greater than they should be in your tables: 270% should be 170% etc.

I've corrected them a number of hours ago. See post #21. Also, to mention, use a ";" after the user's name. It doesn't quite behave itself these days.


@SilvaLau; "average" means "in between" so it's (a + b)/2. Because you only add either min or maxcritdmg by 10%, that 10% will be divided by 2 when you take the average, so it immediately becomes +5% to avgcritdmg.
The rest should fall in place once you get this sorted out. DPS increase is simply comparing the new value with the old value i.e. OLD/NEW. A value of 1.033 means you do 103.3% of your old damage, which translates to 3.3% increase in DPS.

Hadriel

@Hadriel: Your numbers are 100% greater than they should be in your tables: 270% should be 170% etc.

Average crit damage = (max crit + min crit)/2. The DPS column shows how much increasing your average crit damage will change your DPS based on your current average crit damage. Note: increasing your min or max crit damage by X will increase your average crit damage by 0.5X.

The vs Y% stat columns show what %stat you would need to get the same damage increase from the listed %stat, though his numbers are 100% higher than they should be.

For example, looking at the first row in the first table, a 10% min or max crit damage line would increase your DPS by 3.7% if your average crit damage was 35%. If you had a ring with 10% stat to use instead, it'd give about the same damage boost if you had 170% stat. It'd give a greater damage boost if you have less than the %stat in the cell.

The math is quite simple. We first start by assuming crit rate to be 100% to simplify the calculations. It'd be rather easy to compute for lower crit rates, but then there wouldn't be a proper table (it'd be 3 dimensional). Anyways, as stated your average crit damage is the average of your minimum and maximum crit values. With 65% min and 76% max, your average crit damage is 70.5% This means whenever you land a critical hit you will do on average 170.5% of the damage you would deal without a critical. In other words, crits multiply your damage by 1.705 on average. By increasing your minimum or maximum crit by 10%, your average crit damage increases by 5%, making you deal 1.755 times more damage on average instead of 1.705. By dividing the new damage by the old, you can obtain the %damage difference. 1.755 / 1.705 = 1.029. In other words, 1.705 * 1.029 = 1.755, so your damage will be multiplied by 1.029. This is a 2.9% increase to your damage output assuming 100% crit.

I've corrected them a number of hours ago. See post #21. Also, to mention, use a ";" after the user's name. It doesn't quite behave itself these days.


@SilvaLau; "average" means "in between" so it's (a + b)/2. Because you only add either min or maxcritdmg by 10%, that 10% will be divided by 2 when you take the average, so it immediately becomes +5% to avgcritdmg.
The rest should fall in place once you get this sorted out. DPS increase is simply comparing the new value with the old value i.e. OLD/NEW. A value of 1.033 means you do 103.3% of your old damage, which translates to 3.3% increase in DPS.

Hadriel

oh... thanks for the clarification guys

I've corrected them a number of hours ago. See post #21. Also, to mention, use a ";" after the user's name. It doesn't quite behave itself these days.

Good to know, thanks. Apparently refreshing my page didn't work either lol.

Good to know, thanks. Apparently refreshing my page didn't work either lol.

If it still shows the old value you can try clearing the cache.

When you are browsing the internet, occasionally the browser will save a copy of the page so that the next time you visit the page, they will just load it directly from the cache to increase the loading speed.

That's the reason why sometimes when there are changes to the webpage, you cannot see the changes since the cache is not updated yet.
Clearing the cache in this case usually helps or just set it so your browser do not save anything in the cache.

You take the average of your min and max critical damage, and read it off the left-most column. In that row, you get to tell 1) the DPS increase from a 5% increase in average crit damage (from a 10% increase in min or maxcritdmg), and 2) the other 4 columns indicate how much %STAT you must possess in order for the same DPS increase to be matched by 10, 20, 30, or 40%STAT e.g. from a you intend to replace.

So for example, if you have 50% average critical damage, then a 5% increase in average critical damage is 3.33% increase in DPS [which comes from (1.55/1.50 - 1)]. This 3.33% increase in DPS is the same as a) either having an additional 10%STAT when you already have 233%STAT, b) having an additional 20%STAT when you already have 500%STAT, and so on.

I have discovered a mistake in my previous post, which caused all tables to show an additional 100%STAT needed. This is because I didn't take the base calculation for %STAT as 100% [i.e. when you have 50%STAT, the multiplier to your STAT is 1.5, not 0.5, but it showed the multiplier value instead]. Working at 2am... Please do not use the tables that you quoted.

Hadriel

Oh... another question just arises when I was looking at the chart.

How come I need higher base stats to gain equal DPS increases with higher %stat on my equip?

This is just my assumption, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Let's say.... my average critical is 70% so with 5% avgcritdmg, my damage increases by 2.94% and if I have let's say, 300% total stat, a 10% stat equip would give me 2.5% damage increase only.

But if I were to upgrade to 20~40% all stat, it would give me more than 3.7% increase until my total %stat reaches 580, 920 and 1260 respectively?

Can you do one for 20% avgcritdmg too?

You can get 15% min/max critical damage on normal potential and I think with bonus potential, you can get about 5%?
So it might be possible to get up to 40% min/max critical damage?

How come I need higher base stats to gain equal DPS increases with higher %stat on my equip?

This is just my assumption, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Let's say.... my average critical is 70% so with 5% avgcritdmg, my damage increases by 2.94% and if I have let's say, 300% total stat, a 10% stat equip would give me 2.5% damage increase only.

But if I were to upgrade to 20~40% all stat, it would give me more than 3.7% increase until my total %stat reaches 580, 920 and 1260 respectively?

That is correct. Higher %STAT requires more %STAT to provide the same DPS increase. This has, however, nothing to do with base stats (that is, nothing to do with your base INT or +INT).

[MENTION=13839]SilvaLau[/MENTION]; easily.

 What 20% avgcritdmg provides assuming 100% crit rate

Average crit damage	DPS increase	v.s. 10%STAT	v.s. 20%STAT	v.s. 30%STAT	v.s. 40%STAT
35%	14.81%	-33%	35%	103%	170%
40%	14.29%	-30%	40%	110%	180%
45%	13.79%	-28%	45%	118%	190%
50%	13.33%	-25%	50%	125%	200%
55%	12.9%	-23%	55%	133%	210%
60%	12.5%	-20%	60%	140%	220%
65%	12.12%	-18%	65%	148%	230%
70%	11.76%	-15%	70%	155%	240%
75%	11.43%	-13%	75%	163%	250%
80%	11.11%	-10%	80%	170%	260%
85%	10.81%	-8%	85%	178%	270%
90%	10.53%	-5%	90%	185%	280%
95%	10.26%	-2%	95%	193%	290%
100%	10%	0%	100%	200%	300%

Hadriel

That is correct. Higher %STAT requires more %STAT to provide the same DPS increase. This has, however, nothing to do with base stats (that is, nothing to do with your base INT or +INT).

Hadriel

I see... so in conclusion, this ring can't replace a ring that can have potentially up to 40% stat until you have at least 980% total stat?

I see... so in conclusion, this ring can't replace a ring that can have potentially up to 40% stat until you have at least 980% total stat?

That would be the case, for 100%crit rate and 35% average crit damage, and keeps climbing.

Hadriel

That would be the case, for 100%crit rate and 35% average crit damage, and keeps climbing.

Hadriel

Seriously, thanks a lot for sticking with me and answering all my questions.
That really helped a lot.

Just one last question though.
Tyrant Gloves or Hero Gloves.

What are you take regarding these 2 gloves? Which are better in the end?

Just one last question though.
Tyrant Gloves or Hero Gloves.

What are you take regarding these 2 gloves? Which are better in the end?

There's a separate thread for that discussion: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=74941

There's a separate thread for that discussion: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=74941

Thanks

I have more than enough dex/attack/boss/pdr to cap 100% on every boss in the game without gloves, so I'm not worrying myself with something like this. I haven't gone to dojo in months lol
[MENTION=5956]hadriel[/MENTION]; sorry I am of no help!

I have more than enough dex/attack/boss/pdr to cap 100% on every boss in the game without gloves, so I'm not worrying myself with something like this. I haven't gone to dojo in months lol
hadriel; sorry I am of no help!

That's utterly... err... disgusting.

Hadriel