Pirate %/s (KMS RED and GMS Unleashed)

The only skill you're accounting for that has a spam delay is barrage, and said delays are the same as in the really old delay thread. That's why we said barrage+DS>barrage. Because you have to use DS/orb to fill the gap. Every other skill is spammable.

I've done time tests on my character multiple times and on 1v1 (barrage+orb vs barrage+DS), 2 targets (orb vs DS), and 3 targets, orb had a significantly lower time than dragon strike, so there's no way orb can be worse %/s wise.

Just to confirm, this means that Energy Blast at Normal (6) is 720ms and Dragon Strike at Normal (6) is 1080ms with no spam delays? I've been calculating Dragon Strike as such, but included a spam delay with Energy Blast.
Dragon Strike does 850% at 810ms Fastest (2) = 1,049%/s. Energy orb does 980% at 900ms Fastest (2) = 1,088%/s. Energy Orb is better on a single target, but because of damage reduction (unless this was removed), it does inferior damage on all other targets compared to Dragon Strike. Energy Blast does 680% at 540ms Fastest (2) = 1,259%/s, the superior attack.

I thought you claimed cannoneers had far stronger 1v1 than sairs when PDR is 60%+ a while back though. Why is that not the case anymore?

My claim was that they were similar without including summons, and they are, with Cannon Shooters winning. Octopus is retardedly strong, and I believe I also made that claim that Corsairs probably still win because of how much damage Octopi would do compared to Monkeys.

Out of curiosity, how much of our DPM is from octo on the higher defense rate?
Just wondering since a lot of Sairs I know don't even summon it, because of how annoying it is to keep all of them up. :f6:

I already stated in the OP, that Octopus accounts for 1.4x of their damage on 0% defense monsters and 2.4x of their damage on 70% defense monsters.


Is it possible to request hamad138 banned from my threads?

I also just discovered two bugs involving Pirate's Revenge for both classes and Lucky Dice for Buccaneers it seems. The original table showed Buccaneers with constant Dice 5. I've adjusted this to be an accurate showing of average dice rolls. Pirate's Revenge was not rebuffing correctly with a 50 second cooldown. I've adjust it to be active with a 45 second duration and 50 second cooldown i.e. 5 seconds where it is not active.

and why? Herp I wanted to help u

Just to confirm, this means that Energy Blast at Normal (6) is 720ms and Dragon Strike at Normal (6) is 1080ms with no spam delays? I've been calculating Dragon Strike as such, but included a spam delay with Energy Blast.
Dragon Strike does 850% at 810ms Fastest (2) = 1,049%/s. Energy orb does 980% at 900ms Fastest (2) = 1,088%/s. Energy Orb is better on a single target, but because of damage reduction (unless this was removed), it does inferior damage on all other targets compared to Dragon Strike. Energy Blast does 680% at 540ms Fastest (2) = 1,259%/s, the superior attack.

Yeah that sounds entirely correct. Thanks for making it more clear.

My claim was that they were similar without including summons, and they are, with Cannon Shooters winning. Octopus is retardedly strong, and I believe I also made that claim that Corsairs probably still win because of how much damage Octopi would do compared to Monkeys.

Oh i thought it was with summons and everything. Oh well, they still represent the middle ground between stronger 1v1 than buccs and weaker mobbing than sairs with more mobility than both, which is fine by me.

Yeah that sounds entirely correct. Thanks for making it more clear.

I've updated the tables. In the end, it doesn't really matter because Barrage is used for 20 seconds compared to Demolition for the duration of Super Transform.

Can you actually fit just one Dragon Strike between each Barrage? The delay between two Barrages would be 1410ms and a Dragon Strike is 810ms.

Oh i thought it was with summons and everything. Oh well, they still represent the middle ground between stronger 1v1 than buccs and weaker mobbing than sairs with more mobility than both, which is fine by me.

Cannon Shooters are better at mobbing. Better DPS, better range, better burst, better crowd control, better mobility. Only thing Corsairs have over Cannon Shooters when mobbing is attack speed.

I've updated the tables. In the end, it doesn't really matter because Barrage is used for 20 seconds compared to Demolition for the duration of Super Transform.

Can you actually fit just one Dragon Strike between each Barrage? The delay between two Barrages would be 1410ms and a Dragon Strike is 810ms.

Yeah the only other use to barrage involves things that have nothing to do with DPS so it doesn't matter. I just wanted the tables to be as correct as possible before the union updates change everything.

I believe there's some sort of delay diminishing property in play when a skill is used in between one that has a delay. I've literally always been able to do barrage->DS flawlessly even though the spamming delay is a lot longer than the actual cast time of DS.

Cannon Shooters are better at mobbing. Better DPS, better range, better burst, better crowd control, better mobility. Only thing Corsairs have over Cannon Shooters when mobbing is attack speed.

Whoops i wrote that wrong. Better 1v1 than buccs, worse than sairs. They're better than mobbing at both but that's expected i guess. I just hope the differences between all 3 remain the way i think they should be after union. Buccs superior in mobbing, sairs superior in 1v1, and cannoneers a bridge between the two each with their own level of survivability and support.

We all know Buccaneers will be relegated to the point beyond uselessness when the Thief and Pirate Legends come out with Link Skills that give +x% Dodge Rate, -x Weapon Speed, and the ability to transform into SSJ4.

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	3347%/s	3201%/s	2988%/s	2764%/s	2327%/s
2 Target:	3786%/s	3611%/s	3352%/s	3099%/s	2584%/s
3 Target:	6042%/s	5706%/s	5193%/s	4687%/s	3661%/s
4 Target:	8309%/s	7806%/s	7036%/s	6260%/s	4740%/s
5 Target:	10544%/s	9850%/s	8854%/s	7827%/s	5805%/s
6 Target:	12804%/s	11948%/s	10709%/s	9410%/s	6883%/s

Preliminary Mechanic DPS. Siege Mode is 300ms per attack, 6 shots per attack. Laser Blast is used for other mobs. Satellite is assumed to attack three times every 1530ms. Rock n Shock is assumed to attack every 1530ms. Bots n Tots is assumed to attack three times every 3 seconds. Amplifier is assumed to affect summons. 20% PDR ignore from Hammer. Mastery not adjusted.

We all know Buccaneers will be relegated to the point beyond uselessness when the Thief and Pirate Legends come out with Link Skills that give +x% Dodge Rate, -x Weapon Speed, and the ability to transform into SSJ4.

I'm siging that. It's really a shame. Bucc's can be a lot of fun to play as. I hope the eventual revamp does them justice.

We all know Buccaneers will be relegated to the point beyond uselessness when the Thief and Pirate Legends come out with Link Skills that give +x% Dodge Rate, -x Weapon Speed, and the ability to transform into SSJ4.

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	3347%/s	3201%/s	2988%/s	2764%/s	2327%/s
2 Target:	3786%/s	3611%/s	3352%/s	3099%/s	2584%/s
3 Target:	6042%/s	5706%/s	5193%/s	4687%/s	3661%/s
4 Target:	8309%/s	7806%/s	7036%/s	6260%/s	4740%/s
5 Target:	10544%/s	9850%/s	8854%/s	7827%/s	5805%/s
6 Target:	12804%/s	11948%/s	10709%/s	9410%/s	6883%/s

Preliminary Mechanic DPS. Siege Mode is 300ms per attack, 6 shots per attack. Laser Blast is used for other mobs. Satellite is assumed to attack three times every 1530ms. Rock n Shock is assumed to attack every 1530ms. Bots n Tots is assumed to attack three times every 3 seconds. Amplifier is assumed to affect summons. 20% PDR ignore from Hammer. Mastery not adjusted.

Is it really fair to include Rock 'n Shock? It takes a lot of effort / time to get it set up, and that's time not spent attacking. Yes, you can use portals to set up 2 of the 3 parts nearly "instantly", but you have to move for the 3rd. I think it would be best to calculate two tables: one assuming Rock 'n Shock, Bots 'n Tots, and all other summons are already in place (e.g., "Could I be able to kill pap / other boss before RnS disappears?"), and another for the average DPS for bosses that take longer than the duration of RnS (but excluding RnS from the calculations due to setup time).

On second thought, I suppose you could always do something like having a portal on both sides of zak's body, placing 2 RnS nodes on one portal and the 3rd on the other for a "no travel time" setup. Just going to leave the above paragraph there for food for thought.

Regardless, are you counting in the self-destruct damage of all of the summons? After all, perfect scenarios (DPS calcs) require immobile bosses.

Is it really fair to include Rock 'n Shock? It takes a lot of effort / time to get it set up, and that's time not spent attacking. Yes, you can use portals to set up 2 of the 3 parts nearly "instantly", but you have to move for the 3rd. I think it would be best to calculate two tables: one assuming Rock 'n Shock, Bots 'n Tots, and all other summons are already in place (e.g., "Could I be able to kill pap / other boss before RnS disappears?"), and another for the average DPS for bosses that take longer than the duration of RnS (but excluding RnS from the calculations due to setup time).

On second thought, I suppose you could always do something like having a portal on both sides of zak's body, placing 2 RnS nodes on one portal and the 3rd on the other for a "no travel time" setup. Just going to leave the above paragraph there for food for thought.

Regardless, are you counting in the self-destruct damage of all of the summons? After all, perfect scenarios (DPS calcs) require immobile bosses.

I don't consider any walking time to set up RnS. All summons that self-destruct have that damage included. Every summon is beneficial to DPS, but RnS is least, and if its set up time takes too long, it would be better not to use it.

We all know Buccaneers will be relegated to the point beyond uselessness when the Thief and Pirate Legends come out with Link Skills that give +x% Dodge Rate, -x Weapon Speed, and the ability to transform into SSJ4.

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	3347%/s	3201%/s	2988%/s	2764%/s	2327%/s
2 Target:	3786%/s	3611%/s	3352%/s	3099%/s	2584%/s
3 Target:	6042%/s	5706%/s	5193%/s	4687%/s	3661%/s
4 Target:	8309%/s	7806%/s	7036%/s	6260%/s	4740%/s
5 Target:	10544%/s	9850%/s	8854%/s	7827%/s	5805%/s
6 Target:	12804%/s	11948%/s	10709%/s	9410%/s	6883%/s

Preliminary Mechanic DPS. Siege Mode is 300ms per attack, 6 shots per attack. Laser Blast is used for other mobs. Satellite is assumed to attack three times every 1530ms. Rock n Shock is assumed to attack every 1530ms. Bots n Tots is assumed to attack three times every 3 seconds. Amplifier is assumed to affect summons. 20% PDR ignore from Hammer. Mastery not adjusted.

Huh. The single target damage for Mechs seems a bit low. Isn't it supposed to be around Corsair damage, or even beyond it?

Huh. The single target damage for Mechs seems a bit low. Isn't it supposed to be around Corsair damage, or even beyond it?

Define "around Corsair damage".

Define "around Corsair damage".

Around 3183%/s single-target damage on 70% PDR enemies, or way greater.

Around 3183%/s single-target damage on 70% PDR enemies, or way greater.

Who told you that and how would you/they reach such a conclusion?

I corrected a small check that was pineappleing things up though. Fixed the amount of attacks Rock N Shock did with the stated attack speed.

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	4858%/s	4558%/s	4150%/s	3711%/s	2903%/s
2 Target:	5692%/s	5387%/s	4870%/s	4363%/s	3347%/s
3 Target:	7973%/s	7443%/s	6708%/s	5952%/s	4416%/s
4 Target:	10250%/s	9532%/s	8524%/s	7503%/s	5467%/s
5 Target:	12454%/s	11573%/s	10319%/s	9062%/s	6538%/s
6 Target:	14715%/s	13703%/s	12209%/s	10640%/s	7614%/s

Guess they are really close. Still needs more investigation.

Interesting. I just removed Mech: Siege Mode and I got this

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	5208%/s	4888%/s	4424%/s	3974%/s	3053%/s
2 Target:	5694%/s	5364%/s	4871%/s	4377%/s	3336%/s
3 Target:	7971%/s	7469%/s	6687%/s	5937%/s	4405%/s
4 Target:	10202%/s	9552%/s	8526%/s	7509%/s	5479%/s
5 Target:	12472%/s	11618%/s	10389%/s	9064%/s	6519%/s
6 Target:	14774%/s	13715%/s	12169%/s	10637%/s	7615%/s

That's a bit pineappleed up. Could use some accurate information on attack times for Satellite and Rock 'N Shock. 1530ms is a significant difference from the usual 3030ms. Not a lot of summons attack this fast.

So um... call me a bit out of the loop but I never understood one thing....

Lvl 20 siege mode (1)
100% damage

Lvl 20 siege mode (2) (hidden skill -4th job)
115% damage


Having tank mode enabled gives us 30% more damage... which doesn't seem to be what lvl 2 siege mode is for... so what is it?

Does getting to 4th job automatically give siege mode 15% more damage?

is it 115% *1.3 while is tank mode... or 100%*1.3... and if it's the latter... what's with the 115% on siege mode 2?

((I'm not including autocrits in this fyi))

So um... call me a bit out of the loop but I never understood one thing....

Lvl 20 siege mode (1)
100% damage

Lvl 20 siege mode (2) (hidden skill -4th job)
115% damage


Having tank mode enabled gives us 30% more damage... which doesn't seem to be what lvl 2 siege mode is for... so what is it?

Does getting to 4th job automatically give siege mode 15% more damage?

is it 115% *1.3 while is tank mode... or 100%*1.3... and if it's the latter... what's with the 115% on siege mode 2?

((I'm not including autocrits in this fyi))

As far as I know, Siege Mode 2 is a separate skill you get in 4th job that you can activate with a 15s cool down and 5s duration.

wut? I've never seen it in my 4th job skill book on my mech 0.o

Or am I hallucinating/forgetting since I haven't played in two months?

Such a confusing thing this siege mode is... D:

I should really log back in some day and test it to make sure... but I'm really not up to it >>

Who told you that and how would you/they reach such a conclusion?

All the complaining/whining about Mechs being able to shred bosses like a hot knife through butter, that they are simply Corsairs but better in almost every way (only thing they lack is their own Bullseye).

All the complaining/whining about Mechs being able to shred bosses like a hot knife through butter, that they are simply Corsairs but better in almost every way (only thing they lack is their own Bullseye).

What attack does a Mechanic use when their Siege is on cooldown before Union patch?

let's see....

I think it's tank mode basic attack... but then again I only used it because I liked it.

Tank mode's basic attack fires three shots per press (similar to siege mode)... not that that helps since you need the delay.... I was never really sure if laser was better DPS, not that I cared at the time.



Siege -> basic tank form attack -> repeat when off CD -> factory when off CD

Still going to need more information about that Mechanic stuff, because I don't see how it's possible for them to be better theoretical DPS before Union at this point.
Also
Fixed a bug in Buccaneer that made Transform last half as long as it should have.
Corsair:

 Weapon Speed: Faster (3)

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	4978%/s	4634%/s	4283%/s	3798%/s	2917%/s
2 Target:	5466%/s	5117%/s	4637%/s	4128%/s	3160%/s
3 Target:	7612%/s	7092%/s	6374%/s	5675%/s	4226%/s
4 Target:	9655%/s	9013%/s	8094%/s	7156%/s	5297%/s
5 Target:	11802%/s	11029%/s	9863%/s	8714%/s	6392%/s
6 Target:	13904%/s	12997%/s	11616%/s	10246%/s	7504%/s
7 Target:	16052%/s	14911%/s	13364%/s	11766%/s	8541%/s
8 Target:	18242%/s	16995%/s	15102%/s	13255%/s	9590%/s

 Weapon Speed: Fastest (2)

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	4954%/s	4681%/s	4245%/s	3867%/s	2938%/s
2 Target:	5851%/s	5535%/s	4965%/s	4454%/s	3386%/s
3 Target:	8212%/s	7666%/s	6924%/s	6157%/s	4574%/s
4 Target:	10535%/s	9860%/s	8834%/s	7791%/s	5752%/s
5 Target:	12887%/s	12017%/s	10705%/s	9509%/s	6965%/s
6 Target:	15139%/s	14172%/s	12619%/s	11174%/s	8060%/s
7 Target:	17459%/s	16367%/s	14628%/s	12832%/s	9322%/s
8 Target:	19948%/s	18520%/s	16514%/s	14525%/s	10502%/s

Primary attack is Rapid Fire. Uses Fusillade on more than one target. Summons Assemble Crew when available. Summons Octopus Quarterdeck when available. Assumes that you can summon multiple Octopus Quarterdecks like the previous, and assumes both summons attack at 1530ms. Variance in single target is due to randomness of Double Lucky Dice. Does not account for the possibility of Rapid Fire start-up time.

There is a balance here between being a buff and a nerf. Instead of having a significant portion of their damage tied up in Octopus, it was all placed primarily on Rapid Fire. Octopus now accounts for approximately 200%/s. Assemble Crew (including Valerie bonus) accounts for about 400%/s.

I just realised I forgot Head Shot and have to leave now.

 Buccaneer

Defense:	0%	10%	25%	40%	70%
1 Target:	3179%/s	2986%/s	2705%/s	2423%/s	1844%/s
2 Target:	4967%/s	4645%/s	4187%/s	3745%/s	2878%/s
3 Target:	7411%/s	6975%/s	6310%/s	5649%/s	4320%/s
4 Target:	9899%/s	9363%/s	8415%/s	7455%/s	5751%/s
5 Target:	12336%/s	11605%/s	10511%/s	9448%/s	7194%/s
6 Target:	14936%/s	14021%/s	12617%/s	11288%/s	8624%/s

Primary attack is Fist Enrage. Uses Dragon Strike on more than one target, and Energy Blast (4th job, 3rd job is called Energy Buster in KMS) if available. Uses a charge rate of 400 for Energy, with a 40% chance to charge an extra 90 after each hit. This is the current value of charge against bosses. No I will not include their 8100 charge rate.