Discussion on Mechanics DPM and how to calculate them.

-Can Satellites, Bot 'n' Tots and Rock 'n' Shock do critical damage? Do they ignore monsters PDRate? Are they affected by %attack and %damage potential and buffs? How fast do those skills hit/summon robots?

Satellites/BnS/RnS don't crit
Not a clue
They are
Not a clue

So for a Zakum run, the best combination of skills would be

8 to 5 arms -> Laser Blast
4 to 2 arms -> Laser Blast + Siege Mode
Last arm -> Siege Mode + Missile Tank
Body -> Siege Mode + Missile Tank

Satellite and Amplifier would be used the whole fight while Bot 'n' Tots would be used on the body and the lower arms (if you place the factory before summoning the boss), but Rock 'n' Shock would only be useful if used before Zakum is summoned.

Even with 5-8 arms, you'll want to use Siege Mode. In my attempt to solo zak yesterday morning I killed arms faster (when there was more than one left) by comboing Laser Blast and Siege mode.


Also, we rather need confirmation when it comes to if Robot Mastery does increase Satellite's damage too. I won't be able to check myself for quite a while as I'm only 133.

I'm willing to test it (see last post for details). With max robot mastery, the extra 50% increase should be easily noticeable, I just need to know what damage to look for + what monster i can test it on.

Yeah, but Robot Mastery is a passive skill. So unless you took down damage numbers from before you added into it, how can you test it?

Look at your damage range then....
1)Calculate expected damage without robot mastery.
2)Calculate expected damage IF mastery robot would apply.
3)See it do damage... check which it matches
4)????
5)Profit

Look at your damage range then....
1)Calculate expected damage without robot mastery.
2)Calculate expected damage IF mastery robot would apply.
3)See it do damage... check which it matches
4)????
5)Profit

Yes exactly but since i never do damage calculations, i need someone to tell me what numbers i should look at for steps #1~3. I already gave all the info, I just don't know the equations -_-

Since you have safety (lvl 1)....

Satellite in 3rd job is 160% damage.
Therefore, without points into anything else your max damage should be with satellite should be:
5391*1.6 = 8625.6, but you have safety lvl 1 (I'm assuming it's multiplicative) so you get a x1.02 multiplier -> 8798.112

Since you have robot mastery maxed, your satellites would theoretically deal 8798*1.5=13197 which is well over 10k... check if your satellites hit over 10k.

Satellite range: 11216-13197


If it's all additive:

Satelllite's damage % for you would be 160+2+50 = 212.

So you'd deal: 9713-11428 with satellite.


If robot mastery doesn't affect satellite
7422-8733 (additive lvl 1 safety)
7477-8798 (multiplicative lvl 1 safety)

Regardless, of whether its additive or multiplicative, it should be easy for you to see if robot mastery affects your satellite damage since with mastery you'd reach into the 10ks.

Since you have safety (lvl 1)....

Satellite in 3rd job is 160% damage.
Therefore, without points into anything else your max damage should be with satellite should be:
5391*1.6 = 8625.6, but you have safety lvl 1 (I'm assuming it's multiplicative) so you get a x1.02 multiplier -> 8798.112

Since you have robot mastery maxed, your satellites would theoretically deal 8798*1.5=13197 which is well over 10k... check if your satellites hit over 10k.

Satellite range: 11216-13197


If it's all additive:

Satelllite's damage % for you would be 160+2+50 = 212.

So you'd deal: 9713-11428 with satellite.


If robot mastery doesn't affect satellite
7422-8733 (additive lvl 1 safety)
7477-8798 (multiplicative lvl 1 safety)

Regardless, of whether its additive or multiplicative, it should be easy for you to see if robot mastery affects your satellite damage since with mastery you'd reach into the 10ks.

Should we factor in pdr of mob?

Say if mob's pdrate is 10, so the observed dmg should be 0.9 of the calculated one
and if it is 20,... 0.8 of the calculated one.

Forgot I have to be in mech suit, so here's new data

Max satelite.
Level 1 safety
Max robot mastery
Monster: Jr Newtie (non transforming if it matters)
Damage range: 7691~9048

Highest observed damage: 21698 from a single satelite attack

Oh it's TOTALLY being affected by robot mastery and it's multiplicative
additive doesn't exceed 19k so that can't be it if you saw a 21k.

mutiplicative safety:
9048*1.6*1.02*1.5= 22149 max possible;

additive safety:
9048*1.62*1.5= 21986

if you dont multiply by the 1.5 you can't possibly get anywhere near that. Once you max safety then I can check if safety is multiplicative or additive (I assumed multiplicative). At this point it can be either one really.

What level of safety would be necessary to be sure if it's additive or multiplicative? I'm just adding to bots right now, but i got all my necessary skills to train so i can add more safety for now.

Just FYI, getting that 216XX damage was pretty rare, only saw it a few times in maybe the 100 damages i saw (like 2~3 times). jr newties probably has some PDR rate, no idea what it is.

I can also check if summons bypass PDR, but idk if any regular monsters have a high enough one to be sure.

I can also check if summons bypass PDR, but idk if any regular monsters have a high enough one to be sure.

Not sure about other summons, but Satellite ignores PDR. Using the same data from the test (Damage range: 7691~9048, Jr. Newties, etc)

Satellite + Robot Mastery damage = 240%

Jr. Newtie PDR = 10%

If Satellite didn't ignore monsters PDR, the max damage would be 216%, or 19543 in this case. The highest observed damage was 21698 (239,8%).

That makes more sense. I don't think anyone knows the exact number though, it's dependant on how soon you hold the attack button for.

It depends on your internet speed.

I also can confirm that Robot Mastery is multiplicative, satellites hit way too high for it to be additive. So basically Satellite is the strongest summon in the whole game and most beneficial.

What level of safety would be necessary to be sure if it's additive or multiplicative?

Well.... put it this way... if the % being added on is too low the numbers will be too closeto make any definitive call. It'd be more speculative but with the chance of it also being the other option. We'd honestly have to wait for it to be near maxed to make a sure call, but I can probably do it with if you get to lvl 10 safety.

Well.... put it this way... if the % being added on is too low the numbers will be too closeto make any definitive call. It'd be more speculative but with the chance of it also being the other option. We'd honestly have to wait for it to be near maxed to make a sure call, but I can probably do it with if you get to lvl 10 safety.

Well yea, i knew the problem, just didn't know how much would be necessary to make the distinction between the two. Until then, I could do a much larger sample of satelite damage and find an even higher hit. Would it be better if my range was bigger or smaller to do this type of testing?

Well yea, i knew the problem, just didn't know how much would be necessary to make the distinction between the two. Until then, I could do a much larger sample of satelite damage and find an even higher hit. Would it be better if my range was bigger or smaller to do this type of testing?

Bigger range so that it can separate the 2.

On a side note, are there any mechanics vid on youtube, at cht, pink bean and full horntail runs?

Need to check the amount of dmg they deal, the shots of their damage range and the amount of damage they receive due to their high wdef and mdef.

Maximum damage range in stat window: 30319
Highest observed damage: 72622
Satelite: Maxed
Satelite Safety: Level 5
Robot Mastery: Maxed

Monster: Jr. Newtie

Confirmation: Amplifier doesn't work with satelite.

Amplifier doesn't affect your range in the stat window -> amplifier doesn't work with satelite.

Summon damage is drawn directly from the numbers in your stat window and outputs that much... bypassing defenses (except super def ups and immunities)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Satelite+ robot mastery: 240% damage.

Safety lvl 5 (adds 10% damage):
Additive after mastery: 250%
Additive before mastery: 255%
multiplicative: 264%

72622/30319= 239.5%
Falls well within all three damages

Look for anything higher than 75797.5.
With multiplicative you should be able to hit 80k max. So if anything hits between 76k-80k, it's multiplicative. This will be difficult though and not very conclusive if you dont get anything above 76k. We really do need a higher level of safety to be sure.

I can probably get that sometime next weekend. I don't think it's going to hit that high though, meaning it won't be multiplicative. The lowest I saw was 61xxx which is 85% of 726xx, and that's the base mastery I have as a mech.

Passed my safety25 book today though so maybe like level 15+ by friday/saturday.

While I'm at it, are there any other things people want me to check or clarify?

While I'm at it, are there any other things people want me to check or clarify?

A confirmation that Bot 'n' Tots ignores PDRate and isn't affected by %damage or %attack would be nice. I'm 99,95% sure that it ignores PDR and is not affected by %damage or %attack boosters, anyways.

Also, are Bot 'n' Tots robots smart and go after nearby enemies, or they are dumb pieces of metal with legs and will randomly run left when there're enemies only on the right?

Test it on flat maps w/o platforms. On maps with platforms, the robots might try chasing the monsters on the platforms above, messing up with test results.

(except super def ups and immunities)

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;yQKHP7uzoGY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQKHP7uzoGY[/video]

0:07 -> Satellite hits (and misses once) Pap during his invincible mode.
0:25 and 0:28 -> More Satellite hits.
Rest of the video -> the worse Mechanic gameplay ever seen.

Also, Satellite attack speed seems to be exactly 3 hits/3000ms.

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;XeuF3VH5ghQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeuF3VH5ghQ[/video]

1:19 -> Satellites hit, but they do only 1 damage each.