[Draft] Guide for the DEXless Sin (Scrolled for LUK!)

I need a bit more explaination.

So, right pianus only dispels/seals if you close to it, and left Pianus is unavoidable?

Only left pianus dispels and seal you regardless (some say the right one does too but its very very rare). The way you "avoid" getting dispelled is by constantly hugging it ie constantly taking damage.

Only left pianus dispels and seal you regardless (some say the right one does too but its very very rare). The way you "avoid" getting dispelled is by constantly hugging it ie constantly taking damage.

To my knowledge, constantly invoking "invincibility" of any form does not allow you to avoid non-damaging status infliction skills. I don't think lefty Pianus' seal/dispel is avoidable unless you were on the far left side of it? (I've never tried that lol) (Same thing can be said for Papulatus' stun, dispel and slow, unless you're outside the casting range) Righty Pianus' seal/dispel only happens if you're next to it or hugging it. So the rarity of that happening depends on how much you like to be hugging it!

To my knowledge, constantly invoking "invincibility" of any form does not allow you to avoid non-damaging status infliction skills. I don't think lefty Pianus' seal/dispel is avoidable unless you were on the far left side of it? (I've never tried that lol) (Same thing can be said for Papulatus' stun, dispel and slow, unless you're outside the casting range) Righty Pianus' seal/dispel only happens if you're next to it or hugging it. So the rarity of that happening depends on how much you like to be hugging it!

i dont know about seal but i know that for stun and dispel, if you're in "invincible mode", you will not be affected by it.

you can see how hugging griffrey works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLjT9v7h6cw

when i dont hug griffrey, its constantly dispelling. but when i hug, im perfectly "safe" from dispels and stuns.

you can also see a paladin here hugging pianus and not getting sealed/stunned/dispel/etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIx3fsskg28

i dont know about seal but i know that for stun and dispel, if you're in "invincible mode", you will not be affected by it.

you can see how hugging griffrey works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLjT9v7h6cw

when i dont hug griffrey, its constantly dispelling. but when i hug, im perfectly "safe" from dispels and stuns.

Well duh, Griffey's status infliction attacks have damage included, and since those have to hit you for the status inflictions to work, of course you're immune. All status inflictions that have damage included have to hit you for damage or else they don't work. This includes Zakum's sealing lightning AoE.

If you can name an example that defies this, then I'll shut up.

you can also see a paladin here hugging pianus and not getting sealed/stunned/dispel/etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIx3fsskg28

Ooh, interesting xD I learned something new today xD

But I still won't hug lefty Pianus when its alone because that seriously hurts way more.

1:52, 3:20, 4:18 the Paladin gets dispelled. The bump damage continues nonstop.

4:25 the Paladin gets sealed. Hmm...

Before you decide to reply without evidence, I would like to say all those times were when he was hugging Lefty Pianus.

hmm. i dont know much about pianus since its never alive for me to kill lol. so i cant say anything about first hand experience with pianus since i have very little of it. i assumed that seal, dispel, stun, 1/1 etc is the same for all bosses.. because it would make sense. why would they make status infliction different from bosses to bosses? i really didnt expect that to be the case lol.

You still IGNORED MY POST...
WHY THE pineapple would you get SHADOW MESO? Its USELESS and pumpernickel -_-
Why would you get that POS skill instead of maxing Booster and Getting DS maxed for better Travel? you realize at maxed Booster is Faster than at 18

AGAIN MAXED BOOSTER gives you an INCREASED SPEED... why the pineapple would you NOT want that? why the hell would you want Shadow meso which is USELESS 100% useless
you ignored my post 2 times -_-

Maxed booster is not faster than level 18 booster -_-. It only lasts longer.

AGAIN MAXED BOOSTER gives you an INCREASED SPEED... why the pineapple would you NOT want that? why the hell would you want Shadow meso which is USELESS 100% useless
you ignored my post 2 times -_-

First of all, it does not give you increased speed, it adds a whole 20 seconds to max booster. Also, you need those points in Shadow Meso to unlock a different skill, I believe. Third and finally, someone suggested a better hermit build which I will add in as another option and edit the original.

I currently have loads of homework. I hope I can clean this up before the event ends.

-Fixed Pianus info
-Fixed first job Build A

To do:

-Compare assassins to other classes in terms of damage
-Better FAQs/pros and cons
-Fix Build A for third job
-Make better equips guide + more calculations
-Add pictures


Comments on the Build A, anyone? I wanna know if I improved.

EDIT: Double post. Darn. =\

IMO Dexless thieve needs a different strategy when it comes to gears. If you're out to get good gears, make sure you get the best attack gears, and dont worry too much about the lucks on them. Dont settle for 3 attk 8 lucks PAC when there's a 4 attk 2 lucks PAC available.

Also, I think the max DS build (A) is probably the best way to go nowaday. Another thing, dont bother with 1 avenger max SP as the last 5 points of SP gives 2% damage boost each, rather than 1% for the first 25 points.

IMO Dexless thieve needs a different strategy when it comes to gears. If you're out to get good gears, make sure you get the best attack gears, and dont worry too much about the lucks on them. Dont settle for 3 attk 8 lucks PAC when there's a 4 attk 2 lucks PAC available.

Also, I think the max DS build (A) is probably the best way to go nowaday. Another thing, dont bother with 1 avenger max SP as the last 5 points of SP gives 2% damage boost each, rather than 1% for the first 25 points.

One avenger gives you the ability to aggro groups of monsters. It is a worthwhile investment to put your 1st sp into it. You aren't going to really use shadow partner until its maxed anyways, and putting that 1 sp into avenger won't change how soon you go from 1 min to 2 min to 3 min shadow partner. The bump points are 11 and 21. The 1 extra skill point into shadow partner would put you at 10 shadow partner then 13 shadow partner, 19 shadow partner then 22 shadow partner. 2% more dmg later in the build progression for a skill that you aren't going to use until its maxed anyways is hardly enough reason to not get 1 avenger.

-Fixed Pianus info
-Fixed first job Build A
-Made better Equips guide, still improving

To do:

-Compare assassins to other classes in terms of damage
-Better FAQs/pros and cons
-Fix Build A for third job
-more calculations
-Add pictures

Comments on the Build A, anyone? I wanna know if I improved. Also, tell me if the equips guide is any better.

-Fixed Pianus info

No you didn't? Sorry for being a thorn in the side xD Butterfli and I came to an agreement about what's correct ... I hope.

 Oh noez! Arguing =(

Only left pianus dispels and seal you regardless (some say the right one does too but its very very rare). The way you "avoid" getting dispelled is by constantly hugging it ie constantly taking damage.

To my knowledge, constantly invoking "invincibility" of any form does not allow you to avoid non-damaging status infliction skills. I don't think lefty Pianus' seal/dispel is avoidable unless you were on the far left side of it? (I've never tried that lol) (Same thing can be said for Papulatus' stun, dispel and slow, unless you're outside the casting range) Righty Pianus' seal/dispel only happens if you're next to it or hugging it. So the rarity of that happening depends on how much you like to be hugging it!

i dont know about seal but i know that for stun and dispel, if you're in "invincible mode", you will not be affected by it.

you can see how hugging griffrey works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLjT9v7h6cw

when i dont hug griffrey, its constantly dispelling. but when i hug, im perfectly "safe" from dispels and stuns.

you can also see a paladin here hugging pianus and not getting sealed/stunned/dispel/etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIx3fsskg28

Well duh, Griffey's status infliction attacks have damage included, and since those have to hit you for the status inflictions to work, of course you're immune. All status inflictions that have damage included have to hit you for damage or else they don't work. This includes Zakum's sealing lightning AoE.

If you can name an example that defies this, then I'll shut up.



Ooh, interesting xD I learned something new today xD

But I still won't hug lefty Pianus when its alone because that seriously hurts way more.

1:52, 3:20, 4:18 the Paladin gets dispelled. The bump damage continues nonstop.

4:25 the Paladin gets sealed. Hmm...

Before you decide to reply without evidence, I would like to say all those times were when he was hugging Lefty Pianus.

hmm. i dont know much about pianus since its never alive for me to kill lol. so i cant say anything about first hand experience with pianus since i have very little of it. i assumed that seal, dispel, stun, 1/1 etc is the same for all bosses.. because it would make sense. why would they make status infliction different from bosses to bosses? i really didnt expect that to be the case lol.

What you said here is correct:

I need a bit more explaination.

So, right pianus only dispels/seals if you close to it, and left Pianus is unavoidable?

Comments on the Build A, anyone? I wanna know if I improved. Also, tell me if the equips guide is any better.

EDIT: nvm

EDIT: nvm

Hate to be a thorn in your side, but I can't understand all this! Is the thing in my guide correct or what you quoted? So many opinions. I'll resort to youtube videos.

One avenger gives you the ability to aggro groups of monsters. It is a worthwhile investment to put your 1st sp into it. You aren't going to really use shadow partner until its maxed anyways, and putting that 1 sp into avenger won't change how soon you go from 1 min to 2 min to 3 min shadow partner. The bump points are 11 and 21. The 1 extra skill point into shadow partner would put you at 10 shadow partner then 13 shadow partner, 19 shadow partner then 22 shadow partner. 2% more dmg later in the build progression for a skill that you aren't going to use until its maxed anyways is hardly enough reason to not get 1 avenger.

I dont know about you, but I used 21 SP at viking/dt before. Now, there're better training grounds, so I dont see the need to group monsters together in places like hoodoo etc. Also, mobbing IMO is a joke for early hermithood. We have nothing but L7 for attack, and mobbing a group of strong monsters (for that level) like viking without proper sniping spots is IMO not a good idea until at least you have maxed SP. Otherwise, mobbing a 1-2hko monsters is a waste, since you can probably kill them faster without mobbing.

The thing with SP is that if you're going pure SP, at level 78, you're doing 1% more damage than those with 1 avenger. At level 79, you're doing 2% more damage, and I dont know about you, but IMO, that's alot, especially for a dexless sin. Further more, from what I can see, avenger is mostly just for show in the first 10 hermit levels. I cant really find a situation where 1 avenger stands out.

Edit:

As for early sin build, I would just max L7 ASAP as a dexless sin. The reason for that is you generally have enough money for pots nowaday. Back in the old days, where L7 was in its old format, I survived unfunded going L7 first easily. We all know L7 relies on luck and weapon attack, and it has its own mastery, something no other class has. Only mages come close with their m-claw. You need to capitalize on that benefit ASAP especially for dexless as you can get amazing damages very early. After that, I would go for keen eyes (extending the range), and then max DS and then Nimble body to 10 (not including any prereqs).

Hate to be a thorn in your side, but I can't understand all this! Is the thing in my guide correct or what you quoted? So many opinions. I'll resort to youtube videos.

Srryz xD I'll try to make it a bit simpler...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIx3fsskg28

1:52, 3:20, 4:18 the Paladin gets dispelled. The bump damage continues nonstop.

4:25 the Paladin gets sealed. Hmm...

Hope that's good enough to get the point across xD

K, thanks for the info. Updating~

By the way, added some equip picutres from the Sauna. Still adding more.

[quote=GummyBear]I dont know about you, but I used 21 SP at viking/dt before. Now, there're better training grounds, so I dont see the need to group monsters together in places like hoodoo etc. Also, mobbing IMO is a joke for early hermithood. We have nothing but L7 for attack, and mobbing a group of strong monsters (for that level) like viking without proper sniping spots is IMO not a good idea until at least you have maxed SP. Otherwise, mobbing a 1-2hko monsters is a waste, since you can probably kill them faster without mobbing.

The thing with SP is that if you're going pure SP, at level 78, you're doing 1% more damage than those with 1 avenger. At level 79, you're doing 2% more damage, and I dont know about you, but IMO, that's alot, especially for a dexless sin. Further more, from what I can see, avenger is mostly just for show in the first 10 hermit levels. I cant really find a situation where 1 avenger stands out.

QUOTE]

I started using SP for training when it was lvl 21 (3 min shadow partner). Before that is was pretty much useless and used more for show.

I used Avenger all the time when it was lvl 1. It definitely wasn't the greatest of skills at lvl 1, but it could do two things that l7 couldn't do. It could aggro 4 enemies at once and it could go through terrain.

If you found a monster that you couldnt hit with L7 and it wasn't interested in coming towards you, you could use your lvl 1 avenger to aggro it and its on its way.

I used Avenger all the time to aggro several enemies and get them coming towards me in a train like manner, and I could sit in the corner and cut them down one at a time while they continued their trek towards me.

When it comes to 1% more dmg, or a new skill that provides new abilities that you wouldn't have otherwise, I would again choose to go 1 avenger right off the bat in building a Hermit.

I guess it all comes down to play style and preferences. For me, I stayed at zombie, and I never find avenger any useful. When I could, I moved onto Viking. Back then, there's the left/right hitbox glitch and avenger was really good, but now, there're options like hoodoo/voodoo, FOG, etc that you hardly need to use avenger, and thus I would opt for 1% increase in damage at level 78 and 2% at level 79 just to get out of the "hell levels" ASAP. Beside, during that time, dexless hermit are still somewhat at their peak of their power, so I'd prefer to not waste time on avenger when I could L7 for more damage.

I guess it all comes down to play style and preferences. For me, I stayed at zombie, and I never find avenger any useful. When I could, I moved onto Viking. Back then, there's the left/right hitbox glitch and avenger was really good, but now, there're options like hoodoo/voodoo, FOG, etc that you hardly need to use avenger, and thus I would opt for 1% increase in damage at level 78 and 2% at level 79 just to get out of the "hell levels" ASAP. Beside, during that time, dexless hermit are still somewhat at their peak of their power, so I'd prefer to not waste time on avenger when I could L7 for more damage.

just for your info dexless can't viking because they can't hit them until the mid 80's.

I don't gauge how effective my attack is by dmg, but by how many hits it takes to kill an enemy. Do you really think 1% dmg is going to turn a monster that was a 2hko into a 1hko? I found that the best thing lvl 21 avenger did was bring stability to those monters that you almost 1hko. The avenger adds enough umph to get over the hump and make a consistent 1hko. An extra 1 or 2 % on that attack isn't going to make any difference.

Maybe you didn't use Avenger much, but then again, how long were you in your 70's? I was lvl 7x for along long time. I found many places to use it. I even used it on voodoo/hoodoo. Why did I use it there? When they spawn you can shoot one avenger and it aggroes all 4 voodoo or hoodoo, and they start to slowly walk toward you. You can then just sit there and blast away. Much less running and more efficient killing.

From what I can gather is you never used 1 avenger going through your 7x levels so you don't know how useful it could have been to you. It was a nice skill to have and was well worth the 1% or 2% less dmg that l7 did.