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[1.2.355] More balancing
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2010-12-04, 04:56 PM
Takebacker Wrote:This is what i'm talking about. What exactly were the changes?Barrage is up to 2670 from 2430. Dragon Strike is up to 1320 from 1080. From the Restructuring Delays thread. 
2010-12-04, 04:59 PM
I'm not really pissed about that at all. Barrage was already useless and as long as dragon strike is still spammable it's still able to be used in the same way. It got buffed in damage anyway. Plus, orb has more of an advantage over DS now. L> post-restructuring DS/orb %/s per mob table. ;-;
2010-12-04, 05:04 PM
From the looks of things, Battle Mage and Arans got a slight decrease to most of their skills, but the Hero (4th job) and I/L AM (3rd job) seemed to get hit the hardest with delays. With damage, it has to go to both AMs since it's possible to hit damage cap while using infinity (I/L vs. Papulatus video proves it), and a bigger buff would just support that. Some of the mage's attacks could definitely use a second or third strike instead of one powerful one or at the very least a new damage cap or not one at all.
2010-12-04, 05:18 PM
Takebacker Wrote:I'm not really pissed about that at all. Barrage was already useless and as long as dragon strike is still spammable it's still able to be used in the same way. It got buffed in damage anyway. Plus, orb has more of an advantage over DS now. L> post-restructuring DS/orb %/s per mob table. ;-;
Assuming 2/3rds reduction still. I cannot recall if it had changed since Big Bang.
2010-12-04, 05:19 PM
I thought all reduction skills had a .9 reduction per hit instead of the previous 2/3rds.
2010-12-04, 05:23 PM
Takebacker Wrote:I thought all reduction skills had a .9 reduction per hit instead of the previous 2/3rds. Energy Orb and Final Attack were the only skills to have 2/3 reduction. Final Attack still has 2/3 reduction.
2010-12-04, 05:27 PM
JoeTang Wrote:Energy Orb and Final Attack were the only skills to have 2/3 reduction. Final Attack still has 2/3 reduction. Well whatever. I was pretty sure CL/blaze/orb had the same reduction, but whatever. What i mean is it was changed to .9 after big bang.
2010-12-04, 05:48 PM
Well, if that's the case:
2010-12-04, 05:50 PM
Which means orb is better than dragon strike in almost every way now. Only downside being that you need energy to use it. Totally the way it should have been FROM THE START. <3
2010-12-04, 06:06 PM
ghostofhalo Wrote:From the looks of things, Battle Mage and Arans got a slight decrease to most of their skills, but the Hero (4th job) and I/L AM (3rd job) seemed to get hit the hardest with delays. With damage, it has to go to both AMs since it's possible to hit damage cap while using infinity (I/L vs. Papulatus video proves it), and a bigger buff would just support that. Some of the mage's attacks could definitely use a second or third strike instead of one powerful one or at the very least a new damage cap or not one at all. Paralyze is currently 770% with 220%? DoT. I'm not sure if the single skill damage cap applies to F/P Archmages since with the new DoT display update, the 220% should allow them to surpass it.
2010-12-04, 06:22 PM
ghostofhalo Wrote:From the looks of things, Battle Mage and Arans got a slight decrease to most of their skills, but the Hero (4th job) and I/L AM (3rd job) seemed to get hit the hardest with delays. With damage, it has to go to both AMs since it's possible to hit damage cap while using infinity (I/L vs. Papulatus video proves it), and a bigger buff would just support that. Some of the mage's attacks could definitely use a second or third strike instead of one powerful one or at the very least a new damage cap or not one at all. How were I/L 3rd jobs hit the hardest? Ice Strike lost 27%/s. Arrow Rain/Eruption lost 109%/s. Dragon Strike lost 143%/s. The change in Ice Strike was hardly significant in comparison, especially since it can freeze.
2010-12-04, 06:33 PM
JoeTang Wrote:How were I/L 3rd jobs hit the hardest? Ice Strike lost 27%/s. Arrow Rain/Eruption lost 109%/s. Dragon Strike lost 143%/s. The change in Ice Strike was hardly significant in comparison, especially since it can freeze.You're comparing skill damage and not total damage lost. Dragon Strike lost 22% of its damage over time. Ice Strike lost 18%, Brave Slash lost 26%, Arrow Rain/Eruption lost 37%, and I thought Thunder Spear lost DPS too. My point is not that I/L AM and Heroes received the biggest penalties, but that their main skills (in the jobs I stated) were hit hard because of the delays.
2010-12-04, 06:35 PM
ghostofhalo Wrote:You're comparing skill damage and not total damage lost. Dragon Strike lost 22% of its damage over time. Ice Strike lost 18%, Brave Slash lost 26%, Arrow Rain/Eruption lost 37%, and I thought Thunder Spear lost DPS too. My point is not that I/L AM and Heroes received the biggest penalties, but that their main skills (in the jobs I stated) were hit hard because of the delays. I don't understand how this is supposed to counter what I am arguing.
2010-12-04, 06:51 PM
JoeTang Wrote:I don't understand how this is supposed to counter what I am arguing.For example, you're saying Dragon Strike lost 143% per second. What I mean is:
Dragon Strike
If you compare that to other skills, say, Brave Slash and Ice Strike:
Brave Slash
Ice Strike
Finally, the skills that were nerfed affect the roll of the job a lot. Brave Slash was the Hero's ultimate attack. Ice Strike (and Thunder Spear if it was nerfed too) are the I/L Mage's (not AM) main attacks, and Dragon Strike is a mobbing attack of several (Energy Orb is better damage assuming it follows the 9/10s rule instead of 2/3s rule). Do you understand what I'm trying to point out here? EDIT: Fixed an issue with my division by mixing the numbers
2010-12-04, 07:03 PM
ghostofhalo Wrote:For example, you're saying Dragon Strike lost 143% per second. What I mean is: And Arrow Rain/Eruption and Dragon Strike were the primary training skills for Archers and Buccaneers prior to this change. I believe you're trying to say that the nerf to Ice Strike is more significant regardless of how small the change is because it is used as a primary attack skill. If you even bothered to actually do the math, you'd find that 5.52/4.50 does not equal 18%. You're ignoring the fact that Ice Strike had a significant damage increase for a very insignificant speed decrease in comparison. Ice Strike had a net loss of 1.06x damage. Arrow Rain/Eruption had a net loss of 1.28x damage. Which is more significant?
2010-12-04, 07:11 PM
JoeTang Wrote:And Arrow Rain/Eruption and Dragon Strike were the primary training skills for Archers and Buccaneers prior to this change. I believe you're trying to say that the nerf to Ice Strike is more significant regardless of how small the change is because it is used as a primary attack skill. If you even bothered to actually do the math, you'd find that 5.52/4.50 does not equal 18%. You're ignoring the fact that Ice Strike had a significant damage increase for a very insignificant speed decrease in comparison.My mistake. I actually meant to list it the other way around. It's actually 4.50 / 5.52. The other way would indicate that the old Ice Strike was 22% stronger. How silly of me to think that gaining 60% more damage and losing 102% more on a speed decrease meant a nerf. I guess it is a buff. I was under the assumption that mobbing skills didn't make up a class. They got nerfed, but they are all still the training skills for the characters. Each skill is still compariable to other skills that the class has. Dragon Strike is still spammable compared to Orb, but Orb is stronger just as Snatch isn't as powerful but offers stun. I'm speaking of a manner where the class has a skill that is used in one situation. Ice Strike is the 3rd job's only mob attack and Brave Slash is the Hero's only spammable attack. Buccaneer's have options and cases where each attack is more effective. 
2010-12-04, 07:20 PM
For anyone who wants to see AR in action:
[video=youtube;JWQbGhvzsMg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWQbGhvzsMg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/video] 
2010-12-04, 07:31 PM
PirateIzzy Wrote:For anyone who wants to see AR in action: Agh, way too slow, and an added unnecessary bow whack animation. What was wrong with Arrow rain before this reorganization? 
2010-12-04, 07:39 PM
I think the bow whack animation is fine, makes it look like you're actually summoning the bow instead of shooting another bow to shoot arrows.
Arrow Rain is now insignificantly (less than 2%  stronger than Arrow Bomb. Inferno and Blizzard are now the more powerful mob skills, which I think makes sense because archers shouldn't be standing in the middle of mobs spamming AoEs.
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