Question
If someone (let's say female in this case) sleeps with a female-to-male transgender who is pre-op does that make them lesbians? Or is it just the state of mind of the transgender that matters? Same with male and male-to-female, who still has a penis.
No I didn't sleep with one, before anyone asks. I met one tonight and the question arose in my mind.
It would be considered lesbian by definition, but would you consider a strap on "sex"
I would ask myself: Am I attracted to this person because of their genitalia (which is female) or because of their personality (which is male)?
dunno, in some lesbian relationships (and gay ones too) one takes the role of the submissive one, and the other takes the other role, their personality doesn't seem to me to be the way to categorize this.Originally Posted by SaptaZapta
i'm wondering how the state sees this actually.
I would say no. My old piano teacher is a male to female transgender, and married another woman. They're considered lesbians, so by that logic, yours would be "normal".
That IS no, right? Or am I confusing myself...
Genders and sexual preferences are things that are hard to label.
By "personality" I don't mean dominant/submissive.
I hear from gays that what we call "sexual orientation" isn't just about sex. It isn't just who you are sexually attracted to, but also who you are romantically drawn to. Who you are able to fall in love with, to want to share a life with (if you're monogamous, or at least serially monogamous, anyway).
This is also related to "gender identity". Us people who were born in the appropriate body have a hard time understanding transgenders. "What do you mean, 'I'm a man in a woman's body'? This is the 21st century, you can do anything in a woman's body that you can do in a man's. Play football, drive a truck, marry a woman... Why do you need to subject your body to hormone bombardment and complicated surgery?" And yet, they insist, "I just know I'm a man. I feel wrong in this female body."
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So... still no clarification on this subject, huh. I'm hoping Eos or a transgender will have some input.
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By your example wouldn't it be considered mutual masturbation as they can't genuinely have intercourse by natural means?
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I feel like the only opinion that would matter, in this example, is that of the female sleeping with the transgender. If that was me, I wouldn't care to hear what everyone thinks I am. Assuming a perfectly loving and committed relationship, I would consider the transgender a male, but I would not have a solid label for the relationship we have. Of course, this is just how I think I would act in this kind of situation. I obviously could not speak for anyone in the transgender community.
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Lulz. Does Eos have a magical understanding of sexuality denied to others?
Anyway, your question isn't a real question.
It's inherently flawed because it's seeking a binary answer on a subject that's naturally spectral.
First of all, to define someone's sexuality by one sexual encounter is fairly juvenile.
A female fooling around with another female doesn't magically transform them into lesbians anymore than a gay man fooling around with a female would make that man straight.
A hypothetical encounter between two individuals sharing genitalia could result from either realized attraction or sheer curiosity.
Out of the encounter, either individual could find him/herself could wind of with any multitude of conclusions.
Maybe his/her entire life has been a lie and he/she is a homosexual.
Maybe he/she is actually attracted to both genders (bisexual).
Maybe it will just be a one-time thing that's never again pursued.
These are just a few examples that certainly don't delineate all possibilities, but even these small examples have issues such as "where do you draw the line between homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual?"
Again, spectrum, but the spectrum goes deeper than that because, as this thread has already demonstrated, defining one's gender isn't entirely an objective matter.
The common stance is to define it by a person's physical traits, but others have already mentioned that there are plenty who determine gender by what a person was born as, how a person acts, or even what any individual considers his/herself.
Since the definition of one's sexual orientation unavoidably relies on the definition of sexual identity and because sexual identity isn't a clearly defined, it's impossible to clearly define sexual orientation.
"Translation squirms in the presence of the exotic. The (language) which I speak here imposes itself. It is an outside frame of reference, a particular system. Dangers lurk in all systems. Systems incorporate the unexamined beliefs of their creators. Adopt a system, accept its beliefs, and you help strengthen the resistance to change."
I think being attracted to someone because of their genitalia would be considered a fetish.
Most people don't crawl into bed with someone because they've seen what's in between the other person's legs and found it to die for.
Any given state would have a different definition. Not that it matters since laws concerning such things are rarely scientifically based. Popular opinion and all that.
I do find it sad that you limit someone's personality to whether they are aggressive or passive.
I assure you that most individuals I've met are far more complex.
That's a whole different subject, but I appreciate your line of thinking.
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i said "some" for a reason, i know not all of them are that, however my opinions on this subject are just that, opinions, which is why i refrain from saying anything else.
and in the end, i think this whole thread is down to personal opinion, isn't it?
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If the transition is occurring they're considered the gender they're transitioning into, regardless of whether or not they're still pre-op.
Chaz Bono for example is preop, yet already considered male by the state of California simply because he filed for formal recognition of the change.
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He's pretty knowledgeable about sexuality usually.
Wait, what?! Chaz bono has a pineappleing BEARD. How is he pre-op!? Does he drink bull semen every hour, on the hour?
And I guess I should rephrase the question to be a little more clear because one sexual encounter does not make anyone anything. But would the aforementioned sexual encounter be considered lesbian. I'm assuming Eos said yes but I feel like he over-simplified it and and Viaje... as usual... over-stated it.
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If people are having sex and there's not a dong to be seen, it would seem pretty fair to consider the encounter itself "lesbian" only if you base gender solely on physical qualities. Your theoretical partner would most likely disagree.
No answer should be considered more correct than the other.
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The original question comes down to opinion, yes.
Whether or not personality is entirely defined by tendency to initiate/a desire for control is not a matter of opinion.
He has a beard for the same reason older women can start growing "beards".
He's has more testosterone than a "normal" female body.
I guarantee you that I didn't exaggerate a thing.
Did I go into more detail than necessary? Possibly, but I prefer covering my bases.
Anyway, the answer that those who specialize in gender studies will give you is the one Eos gave:
Regardless of state of transition, the transgender person would be considered whatever gender they identify as.
So, in the scenario you gave, it'd be considered a heterosexual interaction.
However, I personally don't see this as precluding certain activities in this interaction as being considered homosexual acts.
For example, if the cisgender female tried to answer the famous question presented to us by Lil Kim and Sisqo, I'd consider that to be a homosexual act.
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I do personally know, have worked with, been friends with, and still talk to more transgender individuals than most people, so compared to the average person who knows none, or isn't aware they know even one, I am a better resource regarding the subject.
A prescription for the appropriate gender hormones is one of the first steps of transitioning. You're generally expected to live at least a year as the gender you want to be, before you go through the surgery, to give you time to fully accept it and commit to it.
Bottom line is encounter is only lesbian if both of you think of each other and yourselves as female. Gender identity isn't always about the 'now'.
[Jr. Event Coordinator]
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We're really just arguing on semantics and definitions of words here. You might as well create a new word of the situation if you like.
Les·bi·an [lez-bee-uhn] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of or pertaining to Lesbos.
2.
( usually lowercase ) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of female homosexuality.
3.
( usually lowercase ) erotic; sensual.
fe·male [fee-meyl] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman.
2.
an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces egg cells.
3.
Botany . a pistillate plant.
trans·gen·der [trans-jen-der, tranz‐] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser.
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You left out;
gender identity
noun
a person's inner sense of being male or female, usually developed during early childhood as a result of parental rearing practices and societal influences and strengthened during puberty by hormonal changes.
Also called core gender identity.
or longer;
Encyclopedia Britannica
gender identity
an individual's self-conception as being male or female, as distinguished from actual biological sex. For most persons, gender identity and biological characteristics are the same. There are, however, circumstances in which an individual experiences little or no connection between sex and gender; in transsexualism, for example, biological sexual characteristics are distinct and unambiguous, but the affected person believes that he or she is-or ought to be-of the opposite sex (see transsexualism). Gender identity is not fixed at birth; both physiologic and social factors contribute to the early establishment of a core identity, which is modified and expanded by social factors as the child matures.
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No pomegranate.
State more obvious things.
I fail to see how you thought any of those definitions would be remotely useful at all, especially since every single one is incomplete if not completely dated.
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