A frank and open dialogue about hacking

that multi-quote you pulled made me think you were actually khaini for a moment heh.

I get that a lot, hehe.

in order: what i meant is "where would YOU draw the line of legit, the dominator, the VSS, all i listed are illegit items one way or another, and almost* everyone has come in contact with a variation of them, heck i think 27 attk's are less than 1b in scania atm? it's ridiculous

For me, it's easy to draw the line. Anything that has been duped to death is illegit, anything that has been EE/etc. hacked is illegit, anything that is made with hacked scrolls is illegit. It's simple, and most of the time it's almost obvious for anyone with common sense and at least a few months of experience playing to tell. 27 attack shoes are illegit any way you slice it. They were scrolled with duped 10% and then duped themselves. Dominator pendants are obviously illegit simply because they were made with botted and duped materials. The majority of players have one type of illegit item or another by now, and I don't blame them, but that doesn't mean it's right for them to have them.

but think about it, stockpiling, merching, preparing for a new weapon, i wouldn't be surprised if someone had a stack of 20%'s, WS and protects saved for phantom from long ago, which they obtained through merching or other non-duping means.
it would also mean that:
fully scrolled self-made dominator=A-ok
30 protects+WS+a clean dominator=warn/ban

they both produce the same result, your method would be punishing the one who hasn't scrolled yet, i know you want to punish the gloating hackers, but others shouldn't pay because of that

No. All the items you've listed would imo warrant a ban/infraction to some degree because they are ALL illegitimate items. Like I said before, just because everyone and their mother has them does not make it right for them to, regardless of the fact that it is basically not frowned upon at all by the majority. Still does not make it right.

the rules may allow them in, and they should, because the person isn't hacking, nowhere does it say that the community has to welcome them though.

But they aren't welcomed any less than those who are proponents of being completely legit.

dunno if the people i think hack or not, but a lot of the informative people have connections/knowledge to/of people hacking

Nothing wrong with having connections, but if you also hack for your own personal gain, that, to me, outweighs whatever type of good information you can provide to everyone. Maybe I'm too extreme in my personal view of all things hacker-related, but the community being too tolerant of it kind of forced my hand.

That's where things become an epic disaster of he said/she said, favortism accusations, 'why did you punish x but not y' and endless protests of bias and inequity.

Nah, I don't think that would happen here much at all. This is not baslol and never will be. I think the majority of us normal users here understand that the at-least current mods try to be as objective as possible when making their decisions.

In order for a rule to be carried out with any degree of consistency it has to be measurable and have set limits for what is inside and outside of bounds.

I'm saying that it is measurable and I pointed out my measurements already.

Moderators have discretionary power, but that power is meant to cover things outside the norm, and things that stretch or push rules, not to infract on whimsy, hunch and hearsay.

Remember when illegit items were outside the norm in the game? Them now being inside the norm means no rules are needed anymore? It's too much of a downward spiral. If Nexon's rules are ridiculously *tolerant that doesn't mean this forum's should be as well. I'm not saying that infracting on whimsy, hunch, or hearsay shouldn't be avoided at all costs, but I am saying that it is sometimes necessary to send a message; and that's better than doing what we're currently doing about this issue.

Again, maybe I'm too extreme with my views, but I think I have very valid points.