2012-04-16, 02:19 AM
I'm disappointed I missed this thread.
If you're making tiers for any fighting game, and more than half the classes are all in the same tier, that's pretty damn impressive. Compared to non-pvp ms, pvp is a glorious bastion of balance and skill. Granted, that speaks more to how disgustingly broken and disfigured ms is rather than pvp being truly balanced, but still.
Most of pvp's problems come from changes introduced externally, and recently. I think the original design and idea is among the best things Nexon has done in this game. I agree with Sephie that dex classes getting the shaft is almost a necessary function of pvp's design. But... I don't consider that a problem. BMs do well with inferno, it sucks that their non-pvp main attack is basically useless but given I rarely can use angel ray on my bishop I hardly find that damning. Does anyone honestly expect them to server side full speed attacks for pvp? The matches would lag horrendously. Built in attack lag was a compromise solution that made some classes seem unnatural, but allowed everyone to fight with at least the semblance of real time input. There is no workable way I see to do it any other way and have the classes more resemble their outside-pvp counterparts. The most pineappleed up thing dex based classes have right now is freaking mount lag which still hasn't been fixed. And that's a problem for ME.
I pvp most with mages and I can honestly say that the main reason why I do well is teleport. I use teleport to dominate the items and thus maintain a constant advantage over opponents. But almost any class these days can rival that mobility, most people just seem to disregard items they should be depriving their opponents of. So from my perspective the thing that grants me most advantage is items, and therefore in talking about balance they should be nerfed. But if its just the state of the metagame that most players are dumb... should that really be changed in response?
The most recent class balancings did go in the wrong direction for pvp. Bams were great before, but with all auras they're over the top. When I play my bam, it used to be that I had to rely on mobility and hit twice for each time the average opponent hit once - just to do the same damage. But since I can have ada on all the time and the main attack is more powerful, the added mobility is just pure advantage. So I think that should be changed back, or finishing blow be weakened proportionately.
The steps to fix pvp are simple and finite, but even with its current flaws I just want to reiterate how much better I think it is than virtually all the outside pvp content MS has to offer right now.
Oh, and for the record, as long as PVP is the source for any permanent non-pvp gear/advantage, I'm super against the idea of controlling who is in matches. The randomness is the only thing preventing it from being nonstop farming like everything else in this god-forsaken game. My only proposed change to the matchmaker is to make it cross-server. Since it already seems like pvp takes place on pseudo-channels not necessarily associated with any player world, I don't think it would be difficult to implement. And that would mean the servers with low pvp traffic would be able to pvp whenever they wanted.
If you're making tiers for any fighting game, and more than half the classes are all in the same tier, that's pretty damn impressive. Compared to non-pvp ms, pvp is a glorious bastion of balance and skill. Granted, that speaks more to how disgustingly broken and disfigured ms is rather than pvp being truly balanced, but still.
Most of pvp's problems come from changes introduced externally, and recently. I think the original design and idea is among the best things Nexon has done in this game. I agree with Sephie that dex classes getting the shaft is almost a necessary function of pvp's design. But... I don't consider that a problem. BMs do well with inferno, it sucks that their non-pvp main attack is basically useless but given I rarely can use angel ray on my bishop I hardly find that damning. Does anyone honestly expect them to server side full speed attacks for pvp? The matches would lag horrendously. Built in attack lag was a compromise solution that made some classes seem unnatural, but allowed everyone to fight with at least the semblance of real time input. There is no workable way I see to do it any other way and have the classes more resemble their outside-pvp counterparts. The most pineappleed up thing dex based classes have right now is freaking mount lag which still hasn't been fixed. And that's a problem for ME.
I pvp most with mages and I can honestly say that the main reason why I do well is teleport. I use teleport to dominate the items and thus maintain a constant advantage over opponents. But almost any class these days can rival that mobility, most people just seem to disregard items they should be depriving their opponents of. So from my perspective the thing that grants me most advantage is items, and therefore in talking about balance they should be nerfed. But if its just the state of the metagame that most players are dumb... should that really be changed in response?
The most recent class balancings did go in the wrong direction for pvp. Bams were great before, but with all auras they're over the top. When I play my bam, it used to be that I had to rely on mobility and hit twice for each time the average opponent hit once - just to do the same damage. But since I can have ada on all the time and the main attack is more powerful, the added mobility is just pure advantage. So I think that should be changed back, or finishing blow be weakened proportionately.
The steps to fix pvp are simple and finite, but even with its current flaws I just want to reiterate how much better I think it is than virtually all the outside pvp content MS has to offer right now.
Oh, and for the record, as long as PVP is the source for any permanent non-pvp gear/advantage, I'm super against the idea of controlling who is in matches. The randomness is the only thing preventing it from being nonstop farming like everything else in this god-forsaken game. My only proposed change to the matchmaker is to make it cross-server. Since it already seems like pvp takes place on pseudo-channels not necessarily associated with any player world, I don't think it would be difficult to implement. And that would mean the servers with low pvp traffic would be able to pvp whenever they wanted.