Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread

I have to disagree with the whole sleeper OP thing. Cho'Gath is a good jungler, but not OP. The reason he's not OP is as always for two reasons: First, he requires a skillshot knockup to gank. Skillshot cc is not a reliable ganking method. If you're lucky, you might kill them or burn flash/blink ability. If you're unlucky, well you just opened yourself up to harass and kiting while revealing yourself to the other lanes.

However it's the secondary reason that is the main reason jungle Cho will never be OP; he requires a solo lane's worth of farm. Now don't get me wrong, you can still do a lot with an underfarmed Cho'Gath, he's got some nice burst and utility even then. However, you're not going to be surviving team fights and being a big scary monster for long if you're at all underfarmed. The more items you have on him, the better Cho gets. And as a jungler, you're always going to be behind a solo in farm. And that's going to start showing up mid-late game. Mid game, it might be dying once or twice when you wouldn't have with that one more item. Or maybe it'll mean missing out on an easy kill, but it'll probably be a relatively small disadvantage. When it starts getting to late game though, that's when being underfarmed as Cho will lose games for your team. In an ideal scenario, every time you die late game, it results in at least two deaths on the enemy team, maybe more. If they focus you, your team should be wiping them out. And if they don't focus you, you should be full comboing at least one or two carries, resulting in their death or flight from the team fight. However, if you're at all underfarmed, you'll be lucky to take one person with you, or even more unluckily, they ignore you and focus everyone else down, leaving you in a 4 or 3 v 1, where all you can do is run or die.

TLDR: Unless they change things up a bit more, solo top Cho will always be preferred to jungle Cho so he can get fully farmed.

Unfortunately, I will have to disagree with some of the points you have made here.

The statement I made about Jungle Cho being "sleeper OP" in the jungling role is coming from someone who has logged countless hours playing him in the jungle and understand how to play him in the jungler inside and out. His potential as a jungler all around is simply put, amazing, especially in light of recent jungling changes. Unfortunately - and this is not directed to you personally, or anyone else here - 80-90% of the LoL community is sheep, and won't critically think for themselves. For those that are aware of his jungling capabilities and what he can bring to the team as a whole, they know he's very strong and when used right, can be quite deadly, per say. But right now a lot of people don't know what he can bring to the team overall as a jungler, hence he's a top tier, "niche" jungler, as I liked to call it.

But with that said, for the record, I don't deny that Cho is one of the best top solo laners in LoL. In fact, he's one of the best. But when playing him in the jungle, its a bit different. However, how different? That's when one has to go explore for themselves. But what I can say from my experience is that with the recent jungling changes, he now clears camps much faster now in general; his clear times goes up exponentially after level 6 (I can demolish the Ancient Golem or the Elder Lizard camp in 5 seconds flat at level 6 with a Feast + Smite combo, for instance). And he can counter-jungle very well, which I had the opportunity to do so just very recently. Its simply outplaying the enemy jungler and taking advantage of an open enemy jungler when the enemy jungler goes out and do something (and is explicitly shown doing so).

And about being "outfarmed" and "outleveled"? I can refute that statement easily. I recently ran him in the hotfixed jungle just mere hours after it came out, and I was able to keep up with levels. In fact, I even explicitly asked my teammates in-game "Hey, am I keeping up with leveling on par with you guys?" They all have said I was doing well, and there was nothing I should be alarmed of. In fact, last time(s) I played jungle Cho, I was able to maintain a LOT of farm, keep up with levels, as well as shut down the opposing jungler in levels AND gold income when I had the chance to do so.

When I play jungle Cho, I do my roles. Farm in the jungle, come out and gank, then farm up in the jungle (or go counter-jungle if opportunity presents itself). I occasionally come out to lane to help hold a lane or push it a bit, which I take the opportunity to farm up on minions and get myself ahead. But I don't rely the majority of my farm on minions alone. A lot of my farm comes from just jungling by itself. I supplement my gold income with GP5 items, of which I convert the ones I use to my full builds item later on in the game. Combine all of this, and I will have a decent - if not, very good - farm and gold income by the time late game rolls around.

(tl;dr - you have to know Cho's kit really well and utilize it to the max to be able to maintain a stable gold income that will be able to get you your full build - hopefully - by a reasonable point in the game).

And playing Jungle Cho is a bit tricky too. I will say that you are right that landing his Rupture is tricky. If you want to play jungle Cho well, that's a skill that one has to get down and practice over time. But when you land it, that's up to 3 seconds of CC right there (1 sec knockup + 2 sec 60% slow, all ranks), and it can be quite devastating. Add on screaming the already-CC'd target for up to 2 secs of Silence (at level 1), which in the ideal situation, will leave the target almost helpless. When that happens, 1) target has to flash away and maybe go back to fountain and heal up, putting him/her behind a bit or 2) die, and put me or the allied laner ahead in terms of gold and EXP.

But right now, I really think you are misinformed. Nothing biggie though, I do understand your concerns. Not a lot of players run jungle Cho, and not a lot of solid information is out there for everyone to know. Hence why I'm writing a guide for jungle Cho to very much tell you guys how to play Cho, his capabilites in the jungle as well as in the battlefield, as well as address his benefits to a team composition.

Also, I do invite you to check out the hotfixed jungle. There's lots of things you could take a look at instead of relying on previous opinion(s) on previous revamped jungle.

If you have anything that you want to be addressed, please let me know.

 And to conclude my response to your post, here are a few visual examples, with commentary

I was able to get very decent jungle farm, as well as shut down the jungle Fiddles COMPLETELY via counter-jungling. Notice the farm and most importantly, the gold income difference. I had 2x times the amount of gold he had.



This game was a bit tougher, but despite a troll and a Shaco counter-jungling me repeatedly, I was still able to get great farm as well as get fed by punishing those who try to invade my jungle. And I was still able to carry by being a huge threat during teamfights and strategically last hitting low-HP enemies with Feast.

For the record, I had 153 neutral creeps killed and 120 minions killed (if I remember correctly)

If you don't believe that I farmed up more jungle creeps than minions, I do invite you to check my match statistics. As of now, they are still up under my profile for those games.

I also have LoL Replay files of these matches if you want to see what I did in the game, and how a well-played jungle Cho can wreck face really hard on the enemy team.