The MAJOR debate over Holy Arrow

@jezzarules: enormous response here:

 Spoiler

could you be bothered training without it until 120?

Could I be bothered training without Holy Arrow? I certainly wasn't bothered in the slightest to get to 120 without it. To be blunt: Holy Arrow doesn't increase speed at all, and if used at inappropriate times, would actually slow down exp rates.

* Gives good KB

This is irrelevant in that a Cleric's main attack also ensures his survivability. Furthermore, a Cleric strives by being engulfed by mobs, holding them back only limits his ability to do well with Heal.

* Reliable on Dark Monsters

No cleric ever grinds on non-undead holy weak monsters. And if they did, they'd be failing to maximize potential in that Holy Arrow does terrible single target DPS, while Heal does rather good AoE DPS.

* Longer range than M Claw

Can this be backed up by evidence? I think not...

Most of your "pros" are things which do not help grinding. They can make for fun, but they do not have a positive impact on grinding.

Cons:
* Not helpful against mobs
* Does not pass through walls like M Claw does
* Damage not as balanced as M Claw

One con you missed: costs 30 SPs. It's strength isn't truly improved over Magic Claw on neutrals, and it's roughly 1.5x as strong as Claw on holy-weak. And that costs 30 SPs. Basically, Holy Arrow isn't worth the points it costs to max it; if things were balanced better, it'd probably only cost 20 SPs to max. At that rate, I would say it would probably be worthy of serious consideration across the board, despite the skill's lack of functional use in grinding.

Myth: Level 1 Shining Ray replaces maxed HA.
My Opinion: That is the most stupidest thing I've ever heard that came out from a cleric/priest. Firstly Level 11 Shining Rays damage becomes stronger than Maxed HA.
Secondly, those two skills are incomparable because they're two different offensive skills. Holy Arrow is a basic missile whereas Shining Ray is an AoE. Finally Shining Ray too has it's own disadvantages. This AoE has the most horrible range I've ever seen, Holy Arrow can cover that range disability.
Right now, you'd probably thinking that you can use Heal or M Claw to cover the range disability. Firstly Heal is unreliable in terms of damage and it only works on UNDEAD monsters, not demons. M Claws range isn't as good as HA, imagine you've mobbed a bunch of death teddys and one is left charging at you, would you prefer M Claw or Holy Arrow?
Overall you cannot compare these skills at all, they both have different advantages and disadvantages since they are two different kinds of skills.

SR at max does slightly greater DPS to single target than Holy Arrow. Thus, the only advantage max HA has over max SR in terms of single target is that HA can reach a bit further. This, however, is offset by the fact that SR can hit behind the player.

Myth: Holy Arrow is considered the most useless skill in the 2nd job skillbook.
My Opinion: That, I have to admit I partially agree with that.
Heal, Bless, Tele are a MUST for maxing. This leaves MP Eater and Holy Arrow as the two most useless skills in the cleric skillbook.
Putting up either skill is entirely dependant on how well funded you are. Because I was heavily funded (over 20mil at that time), I chose HA instead of Mp Eater. Invinci is strongly recommended but not entirely necessary. If you think you're smart enough to not to get touch damaged by a monster then you dont have to max this (but its recommended for a precaution)
Still despite this, HOly Arrow is not entirely useless as everyone claims it to be.

Holy Arrow is almost entirely useless in grinding, and most of the time, using it in any profound way during grinding will lead you to killing slower.

That said, Invincible is 100% needed. If there was any Cleric skill which was unfair, it is Invincible. It cuts damage taken by SO much.

Myth: Clerics arent meant for offense so what's the point of maxing HA if you're going to rely on party members to train you?
My Opinion: That sounds more like a priest with maxed Holy Sign. And for your information, clerics/priest aren't heal slaves for sins/dits or dragon knights. Where is the fun in the cleric if you're not going to attack?
Nonetheless even if you do not intend to attack often, you should still have an offensive skill to defend yourself with.
M Claw is ok in some cases but what if a monster (with high TD or touch damage) that requires a 1000 damage knockback charges in your direction when you're cornered?

All classes in this game are meant "for offensive". Anyone that says otherwise doesn't understand the dynamics of this game.

Overall, Holy Arrow is not to be underestimated with, it is definately not as bad as you think.

It's not "underestimated" at all. It's badness might be over-estimated, but it's not underestimated at all. The skill is weak (compare to other single target attacks a 2nd job Magician might have) and not useful in grinding (because HA usage is counterintutive to the fighting practices of a Cleric/Priest).

It is a shame that ignorant players enjoy discouraging others from maxing a certain skill.

I'm not ignorant, but I still discourage others from maxing this certain skill. It is because the skill is not worth it in the long run and is not applicably useful in grinding either.

If you have a cleric/priest you have to accept the fact that you are a support class

You're misguided. Do you realize that SR on holy weak alone allows for DPS rates right in the middle of potential DPS rates of all classes? Throw in some skilled telecasting and Dragon usage and a Priest SRing can be a major force to be reckoned with. Heal, too, because of it's speed alone, allows for decent DPS as well.

Soloing will most likely slow you down

No one is suggesting that a Priest should solo and attack as their primary source of exp. However, a Priest can function well as an attacker, and thus, their best source for exp would be to attack AND provide HS.

If you max holy arrow, you miss out on mp eater. So from level 30-200, your mp eater is useless.

Not entirely true. Even level 1 MP Eater can be especially useful, even if it can't match the helpfulness of max MP Eater.

MP Eater becomes worthless later on.

Not entirely true. It's usefulness wains, but it remains passively helpful forever, even if it's help is negligible while spamming Genesis.

Holy arrow is technically stronger than magic claw due to the monster's defense and magic claw hitting 2x.

This is true, however, the difference is minimal, particularly at the lower levels where HA's "usefulness" is at it's peak.

According to hidden-street.net, at level 11 for SR even though the base attack is the same, the mastery is still lower. So it'll take a couple of more points to outdamage HA.

Actually, SR is slower than HA too. So like I said in the spoilered section above, it takes SR until it's maxed to be able to defeat HA's single target DPS.

I think even level 1 Angel Ray > Max Holy Arrow

The DPS for level 1 AR is higher than level 30 HA, BUT AR's min is technically still lower than HA's min, meaning that although your DPS will be noticeably increased overall by using AR, you will occasionally get low hits.

The more I think about it, Bless is pretty useless.

It allows all party members a good boost of acc without having to worry about potions. Major draw for a Priest looking to get that symbiotic relationship with a DK.

That said,

If you want Holy Arrow, get it.

This is the ultimate answer to the question. Holy Arrow won't help you grind, but maxing it instead of MP Eater won't make you grind more slower either (it'll just make for a little more pot cost through 2nd and 3rd job, with potentially no noticeable difference beyond mid 12x).

And if all else fails, you can always skip the loose points in 3rd from Doom/Dragon/Door and use that to max MP Eater after maxing HA in 2nd job. In fact, this is the build I would recommend for anyone who adamantly desires to have HA.

ps I notice some of you mention HA not going through walls. I think it is worthwhile to notice that some things COUNT as walls, like slopes. There are some slopes that arrow attacks can't hit "through". This is a major advantage for Claw compared to HA.