2010-04-08, 10:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 2010-04-08, 10:51 PM by EarthAdept2.)
You never addressed the team at lunch break vs the national team analogy I made. Because that's the same kind of border we're talking about.
Where is the line drawn? If you consider your friends competitive, then how far ahead are the people really into the competitive scene driving / flying from city to city for tournaments? Are you putting yourself at the same level as them? These people who have trained foryears to perfect their skills and you come in saying they're doing it wrong?
Competitive doesn't have to mean no fun involved. As far as I know, melee is a "dead" scene in terms of money and sponsors. But people still play. Why? Because it's fun. This has been happening for the past 5 years and even now the competitive scene is rising once more.
And please, if you really consider these "techniques" broken, give us GOOD REASONS to believe so. Saying it's broken with no backup is stupid. Lemme put some extra points for you first how about:
- Wavedash: This is, in no way, necessary in the metagame. This is a technique that aids in moving more efficiently is all. Masashi is an old fox that played without this technique. He was amongst the top Japanese players. There are no characters that do not benefit from this exploit. Ex. Waveshine is an obvious. Luigi absolutely needs this as his dash is garbage. ICs make very good use of this as their dash also is not as good.
- L-cancel: This has been in since ssb64. However, there is actual landing lag in melee compared to 64 where there was 0 lag. This benefits all characters again. Bowser, who has obscenely slow aerials benefit immensely from this, as does ganondorf who, otherwise, fall prey to the landing lag and will be punished heavily. This is standard competitive technique.
- Dash dance: Dashing back and forth. Simple mindgame strategy. Some characters have longer dash dances. This is in all three games. Standard competitive play.
- Pivot: Turning around in a dash dancing has a few frames where you are in standing position. In this standing position, you can do anything. Again, another mindgame strat and does not give a significant advantage and is available to every character.
- Moonwalking / stickywalking: Totally an aesthetic technique. Hardly necessary.
- JC Grab: All characters (aside from yoshi) have a longer standing grab range than running as well as a shorter delay. JC grab allows them to run and use the standing grab animation. Everyone benefits again. This is standard competitive technique.
- Edgehog: One character can occupy a ledge at a time. Everyone can do this. Standard stuff.
- Crouch cancel: Crouching while being hit can lessen vertical knockback. Provides super armor at low %s. At low %s, serves as a mindgame strat to trade hits. At higher %s might save from a kill from the top (ie. upsmash). Requires prediction. Everyone can do this. Heavier characters benefit more as the super armor %s last further.
- Directional influence: You can slightly influence the direction of knockback with this. Requires either incredible reaction or prediction. Will always help in saving surviving. This is why even light characters such as jigglypuff can survive past 100%.
- ASDI (autosmash DI): C-sticking a direction during hitstun acts as a 2nd DI. Allows for even more survivability.
- Ledgeteching: DI-ing towards the stage below the ledge and teching the wall at the right time. More survivability.
Are these things broken? If an exploit benefits the metagame as a whole then why would it be excluded? It's like inventing something more efficient but disregarding it because it obsoletes something previous. Anything more specific will be character specific. And that's where all differentiations are in games. People have banned broken glitches. One big one would be IC's freezing glitch. Even know, melee is still making some changes to the ruleset (stage-wise) about balance. You'd think that after this many years and with over one hundred thousand members on the forum to give their opinion, the game is balanced as much as possible.
Oh one more thing. If you think multiplayer was killed by these techniques, please explain why people are still hosting 600 man tournaments for a game that is TEN YEARS OLD.
Where is the line drawn? If you consider your friends competitive, then how far ahead are the people really into the competitive scene driving / flying from city to city for tournaments? Are you putting yourself at the same level as them? These people who have trained foryears to perfect their skills and you come in saying they're doing it wrong?
Competitive doesn't have to mean no fun involved. As far as I know, melee is a "dead" scene in terms of money and sponsors. But people still play. Why? Because it's fun. This has been happening for the past 5 years and even now the competitive scene is rising once more.
And please, if you really consider these "techniques" broken, give us GOOD REASONS to believe so. Saying it's broken with no backup is stupid. Lemme put some extra points for you first how about:
- Wavedash: This is, in no way, necessary in the metagame. This is a technique that aids in moving more efficiently is all. Masashi is an old fox that played without this technique. He was amongst the top Japanese players. There are no characters that do not benefit from this exploit. Ex. Waveshine is an obvious. Luigi absolutely needs this as his dash is garbage. ICs make very good use of this as their dash also is not as good.
- L-cancel: This has been in since ssb64. However, there is actual landing lag in melee compared to 64 where there was 0 lag. This benefits all characters again. Bowser, who has obscenely slow aerials benefit immensely from this, as does ganondorf who, otherwise, fall prey to the landing lag and will be punished heavily. This is standard competitive technique.
- Dash dance: Dashing back and forth. Simple mindgame strategy. Some characters have longer dash dances. This is in all three games. Standard competitive play.
- Pivot: Turning around in a dash dancing has a few frames where you are in standing position. In this standing position, you can do anything. Again, another mindgame strat and does not give a significant advantage and is available to every character.
- Moonwalking / stickywalking: Totally an aesthetic technique. Hardly necessary.
- JC Grab: All characters (aside from yoshi) have a longer standing grab range than running as well as a shorter delay. JC grab allows them to run and use the standing grab animation. Everyone benefits again. This is standard competitive technique.
- Edgehog: One character can occupy a ledge at a time. Everyone can do this. Standard stuff.
- Crouch cancel: Crouching while being hit can lessen vertical knockback. Provides super armor at low %s. At low %s, serves as a mindgame strat to trade hits. At higher %s might save from a kill from the top (ie. upsmash). Requires prediction. Everyone can do this. Heavier characters benefit more as the super armor %s last further.
- Directional influence: You can slightly influence the direction of knockback with this. Requires either incredible reaction or prediction. Will always help in saving surviving. This is why even light characters such as jigglypuff can survive past 100%.
- ASDI (autosmash DI): C-sticking a direction during hitstun acts as a 2nd DI. Allows for even more survivability.
- Ledgeteching: DI-ing towards the stage below the ledge and teching the wall at the right time. More survivability.
Are these things broken? If an exploit benefits the metagame as a whole then why would it be excluded? It's like inventing something more efficient but disregarding it because it obsoletes something previous. Anything more specific will be character specific. And that's where all differentiations are in games. People have banned broken glitches. One big one would be IC's freezing glitch. Even know, melee is still making some changes to the ruleset (stage-wise) about balance. You'd think that after this many years and with over one hundred thousand members on the forum to give their opinion, the game is balanced as much as possible.
Oh one more thing. If you think multiplayer was killed by these techniques, please explain why people are still hosting 600 man tournaments for a game that is TEN YEARS OLD.