2009-09-16, 08:20 PM
Well, okay, let me just use my own experience as a pretty poor, low-LUK bishop with relatively (but not totally) crap equips.
>Sticking to mobs I can 1-2 hit.
This was basically, well, nothing good until my late 13x. Unless you suggest training at Harps, which was maybe 10%/hour even at 121 since I could only 2-hit, and got KSed constantly... I tried Himes with Gen. It was more pots than Harps for more or less the same exp. Yes, when I started to 2hko Skeles, I saw a massive reduction in pot costs. But it's doubtful I'd've even got there without training at Skeles while I 3hkoed... Or I would've had to spend more on NX for 2x cards than pots to not quit. >_>
>Not using Gen.
Okay, I'll admit I haven't tried not using Gen at Skeles since I got it. I don't see it being that viable, though, or saving many pots. The reason is lasers. They cost pretty much the same as throwing off a Gen (at level 15). Now that I 2hko, I can kill them before they laser me if I don't lag. It might be different if I were an A/M and had a strong(er) mob attack. Also note, where are you going to get the SP for AR, Big Bang, and/or Baha during the time you can't 2hko with Gen? The only way to have meaningful points on more than one of those skills, and still have 15-20 Gen by the time you can 2hko, is to skip out on Res and MW. Which sort of defeats the point of playing a bishop, if you aren't going to get your party skills, and especially when you're relying on a party member more than ever to get good exp without Gen. As for Himes with Heal, maybe. Forgive me for hating Himes after 50 levels already there, and far too many lagdeaths to count. :f6:
>HB mule.
Yeah, I have an HB mule. It's great for pot costs. I made it as soon as I could dual log. But not everyone can dual log. And I couldn't, during the time when Gen cost me the most.
>Looting everything.
I loot nearly everything, but only when I have a pet. Truth is, your drops are quite far away from you when you ulti. Even using a pet only every 1-2 minutes takes away maybe 20 seconds I could've been using killing Skeles... Doesn't seem like much, but it's enough for the spawn to pile up. And, if you're not perfect with not KBing Skeles out of your Gen range and you don't 1hko, you'll probably have some aggroed Skeles that will laser the heck out of you while you try to loot.
>Not fun to make mesos/too srs.
I beg to differ... I think that's pretty fun. It's certainly not fun being too poor to train/boss with your friends.
>Relevance to thread.
The thread starter is 17x+ on his A/M and bishop, and has very good equips. Not using an ultimate wouldn't save him much mesos at all, since I'm sure he 1hkos Skeles.
Also note, good luck upgrading your equips at all by just training, with the extreme cost of INT scrolls nowadays. Or, you know, buying MW20 or Gen30, the two biggest boosts to your damage mesos can buy. Without good equips/MW20, too, training with or without Gen would be even slower.
I don't understand why my statement was so controversial... I basically just said that magicians lose money training at high levels. I didn't say everyone else didn't (a DrK friend spends easily 5x what I do on pots), or that there weren't ways to lose less money... merely that it's almost impossible to break even just training, i.e., without some outside source of mesos, the main ones of which I listed. :f6:
>Sticking to mobs I can 1-2 hit.
This was basically, well, nothing good until my late 13x. Unless you suggest training at Harps, which was maybe 10%/hour even at 121 since I could only 2-hit, and got KSed constantly... I tried Himes with Gen. It was more pots than Harps for more or less the same exp. Yes, when I started to 2hko Skeles, I saw a massive reduction in pot costs. But it's doubtful I'd've even got there without training at Skeles while I 3hkoed... Or I would've had to spend more on NX for 2x cards than pots to not quit. >_>
>Not using Gen.
Okay, I'll admit I haven't tried not using Gen at Skeles since I got it. I don't see it being that viable, though, or saving many pots. The reason is lasers. They cost pretty much the same as throwing off a Gen (at level 15). Now that I 2hko, I can kill them before they laser me if I don't lag. It might be different if I were an A/M and had a strong(er) mob attack. Also note, where are you going to get the SP for AR, Big Bang, and/or Baha during the time you can't 2hko with Gen? The only way to have meaningful points on more than one of those skills, and still have 15-20 Gen by the time you can 2hko, is to skip out on Res and MW. Which sort of defeats the point of playing a bishop, if you aren't going to get your party skills, and especially when you're relying on a party member more than ever to get good exp without Gen. As for Himes with Heal, maybe. Forgive me for hating Himes after 50 levels already there, and far too many lagdeaths to count. :f6:
>HB mule.
Yeah, I have an HB mule. It's great for pot costs. I made it as soon as I could dual log. But not everyone can dual log. And I couldn't, during the time when Gen cost me the most.
>Looting everything.
I loot nearly everything, but only when I have a pet. Truth is, your drops are quite far away from you when you ulti. Even using a pet only every 1-2 minutes takes away maybe 20 seconds I could've been using killing Skeles... Doesn't seem like much, but it's enough for the spawn to pile up. And, if you're not perfect with not KBing Skeles out of your Gen range and you don't 1hko, you'll probably have some aggroed Skeles that will laser the heck out of you while you try to loot.
>Not fun to make mesos/too srs.
I beg to differ... I think that's pretty fun. It's certainly not fun being too poor to train/boss with your friends.
>Relevance to thread.
The thread starter is 17x+ on his A/M and bishop, and has very good equips. Not using an ultimate wouldn't save him much mesos at all, since I'm sure he 1hkos Skeles.
Also note, good luck upgrading your equips at all by just training, with the extreme cost of INT scrolls nowadays. Or, you know, buying MW20 or Gen30, the two biggest boosts to your damage mesos can buy. Without good equips/MW20, too, training with or without Gen would be even slower.
I don't understand why my statement was so controversial... I basically just said that magicians lose money training at high levels. I didn't say everyone else didn't (a DrK friend spends easily 5x what I do on pots), or that there weren't ways to lose less money... merely that it's almost impossible to break even just training, i.e., without some outside source of mesos, the main ones of which I listed. :f6: