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Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows.
#83
Kevvl Wrote:Here's the thing:
Bowmen need to Strafe out Pap's bombs, so the more spawn on top, the faster the solo.
Pap's 2nd form needs to be repuppeted based on how long Puppet lasts. The longer each Puppet lasts, the faster that body is taken out.

I'm kind of jumping in late to this discussion, but are you saying those things apply to all Bowman? It only applies to lower leveled Bowman. Actually, I fail to see why you would ever need to Strafe Bombs (MM excluded, of course). I never did. The second part is true, but only when you're too weak to KB 2nd form.

I've done well over 300 Pap kills and timed nearly every single one (some literally to the second, others more loosely). I can tell you my time is almost completely stable at 6 minutes, 30 seconds to 7 minutes, 10 seconds. The upper amount is never exceeded and the lower amount is very rarely improved. Factors that affect the time are:

A) Bombs, obviously. If Pap summons top Bombs quicker, you lose less time getting hit by Bombs. If Pap summons bottom Bombs in front of you rather than ON you, you lose less time getting hit. Bombs cost me a few seconds apiece when they spawn in my MB range, get MB'd and then blow up on me. That usually happens 3-7 times per run, give or take.

B) What I call "Pap's Dirty Tactic." What Pap will do is summon Bombs, and then while they're blowing up around you, he'll summon more Bombs. This gives him just enough time to move within range of you, and then he either Stuns or Dispels you. If either of those happen, time loss occurs. Getting Stunned forces you to retreat and repin him. Dispel forces you to retreat and recast all your buffs and then repin him. Rarely happens, 0-2 times per run, but it's the worst time waster.

Those two things are really all that causes my time to differ from Pap to Pap. Bombs are manageable and don't affect your time much, but a perfect run would, indeed, be one where Pap never bottom summons. The only time they really affect you is when Pap does his Bomb spam (multiple bottom spawns in a row). His Dirty Tactic is easy to avoid if you learn to see it coming (Bomb spam = move back a bit to adjust for Pap advancement).

And I guess you could also consider this a variable:

C) Pap going into his hiding shell. What happens nearly 70% (I'd say) of the time is Pap will enter his shell directly after Puppet dies. This is the optimal result, in my opinion. When Puppet dies, and he enters his shell, keep attacking for a bit (assuming you can pot fast or have auto) and then run right (using mount), recast Puppet and run left to get back into position. Pap should be out of his shell at exactly the time you get back. It works perfect, very efficient. Time loss occurs when Pap doesn't enter his shell when Puppet dies. Instead, he'll sit there attacking you. Getting attacked while attacking costs you a few seconds (the more the longer it goes on). I prefer to wait for him to shell to go and recast Puppet, so sometimes this costs me time.

This situation could be avoided by simply running and recasting Puppet immediately after it dies, no matter what. However, this will allow Pap to advance in the cases where he doesn't shell right away. It could create potential problems but not if you're careful. I guess it's just preference between the killer.

For 2nd body, I don't move at all when it summons. I just keep attacking and pin it left like I did 1st body. Never any time loss there (unless you count the few seconds I give up to let it move to the middle so I can screenshot the drops). The worst case scenario for 2nd body (which has only happened a few times in ALL my Paps) is when you do a big streak of non-criticals. That will cause 2nd body to move too close to you and force you to either tank a hit, move back or resort to the old Puppet tactic.

When you're a high enough level, Pap kills don't vary much at all. My times are very steady and always within less than a minute variance. I honestly have no idea how relevant any of this is to the topic at hand, but I just felt like sharing and bringing up my concern with Kevvl's post. I will add that I have not noticed any time difference in my Paps since this change. If anything, the extra 4 att simply increases the chance my low-end time occurs.

If I can contribute in any way, I'd be glad to help.
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Messages In This Thread
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 01:00 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 01:25 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 01:35 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 01:47 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 02:06 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 02:11 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 02:22 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 03:21 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by Harrisonized - 2009-04-21, 04:56 AM
Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows. - by FelixTM - 2009-04-21, 08:19 AM

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