Liar Tree Sap 100%

For clean slates, there might've been a few others who thought it was a feature, but I vaguely remember it being pretty overwhelming with belief of it being a glitch.

As for why I tried it, as you said yourself, we never knew how it worked or if it'd work at all. We devised a theory and tested it and it magically worked. I didnt abuse any glitch because I didnt know of any glitch existing there. Once I found out that such a glitch indeed existed, I stopped doing it. That's the difference between you and I: While you did the "glitch" knowingly, I did it without previous knowledge of it being so.

So now knowing it exists changes everything. If someone stumbles about a glitch accidentally, they're not abusing it?

What I have to say to this doesnt matter; I was talking about a relationship between nexon and a given player (the player hacking doesnt concern me... its not doing any damage to me for the most part, while he isnt playing by the rules, it really isnt any of my buisness, I dont run the game, I dont govenrn the game, those who do will deal with the sitaution). What you're saying is that whether something is a glitch or not is based on results. What Im saying is that that shouldnt be an accurate way to judge whether or not something is "okay to do". If a cop catches me speeding but out of sympathy lets me go, does that mean its okay to speed? Does that mean that speeding isnt against the law? (I know that this doesnt pertain to glitch status as its not set in stone, but what Im pointing at is "Do the results govern the status of a specific action... just pointing this out as you have a tendency to completely miss my point and answer in a completely different direction... I dont know if that's on purpose or not, but you have no wait to avoid it either way now)

I don't miss it intentionally, I get it here. However, that's because it was already declared that speeding is illegal. Let's say that you didn't know whether sticking your GPS on the car window was legal or not, but you went ahead and did it. Without prior knowledge, should the cop really catch you for something so minor? Or should he let you off with only a warning? The answer to that lies in the morality of the cop, or in our glitch case, the morality of Nexon.

1. @ The 3 million exp snail example, it has actually happened, but in MSEA. I remember a while ago, their maple island had a quest that gave hundreds of millions or something along those lines and some people abused it by making multiple characters to continue doing the quest, then transfering the mesos. Asiasoft didnt make an announcement about that at the time so can we argue it wasnt a glitch? In the end, they froze all related accounts and banned many of them. There are times when glitches are just so blatantly obvious that you cant call it any other way other than use the "they never said so" excuse. Go figure.

Nope. The 3m exp thing wasn't 3m exp, rather it was mesos. People who abused it were banned. However, with your "obvious" thing, yes, I could say it was "obvious", but the magnitude of that as opposed to the Liar Tree Saps is different.

2. This is something I just thought of since my last post so I'll say it now: IF this is indeed a feature and not a glitch, why do these saps expire on April 8th? Your gach noses last forever, so why should the "steroid scrolls" for the nose disappear on the 8th which... hmmm, "coincidentally" expire on the exact same day as this temporary nose quest! hmmm, can you connect the two dots here? I sure cant!

Because Nexon stuck the same kind of noses in the Gachapon far before the event came out. They did not have "oversight" on whether or not they'd ever release this event quest.

3. After refreshing the board, I see Russt has addressed exactly what I was saying above. Yes, I drank the water and took the risk to see if it was poisoned. It indeed was and I drank no more from it. You however on the other hand...drank, knowing it was poisoned.

Or did I? I did it to test whether a cape can have more then "intended" slots. But then again, since "everyone" considers it a glitch, then I shouldn't have tested it and I should have left it as is so that people don't call me a glitcher?

come on: Nexon really on purpose make BF poisonable, make CB earnt billions per snails, make you +50 slots on shoes with spike shoe scroll, make Hermit eanrt millions of exp when Bodyguard was Shadow-webable a couple year ago in jMS, make jMSer earnt billions in tradeMS hack etc...

As replied to Jackk, the magnitudes of those are so different that you can't compare the two. Liar Tree Saps aren't game breaking while what you mentioned is. However, the Bodyguard and BF glitch are such that you could say "how did they miss that" and assume that they probably didn't miss it, they put it there intentionally.

Okay, Nexon defined a glitch to be "an unintended feature'. You sir sitting here arguing whether they're intended for something like this to happen or not, and since you believe in "innocent until proven guilty", I guess that translates to "intended until Nexon said otherwise".

And you are arguing whether or not something was not intended. You're insulting me based on opposing views.

So yes, did Nexon intended to make white scrolls stacked with clean slate scrolls? Did Nexon intended to make BF the way it was?

I addressed the Bigfoot glitch up above. Yes, you could argue that white scrolls were meant to stack with clean slate scrolls, if you consider a clean slate a normal scroll. Really the only thing that determined it was possibly unintentional was the message that people got when they USED the scroll, which was that the slot was protected. That message was what ultimately convinced me it was a glitch. However, there's nothing in this Liar Tree Sap that has so far provided convincing evidence to why it's not working the way it should.

Did Nexon intended to make scrolls dupable? etc.

Duping is a hack, not a glitch. Don't bring up hacks in a glitch discussion.

Common sense, (as well as programming logic) said no.

Programming logic says no. Common sense doesn't apply.

So you sir can sleep happy with your strong belief that it isnt a glitch, while we're expressing our strong belief that it is. You're not willing to bend your view so stop expecting us to bend ours. You fully aware of what you're doing indeed and Nexon makes the call at the end of the day.

LoL. I don't even have a gacha branch nose.

Your theory is wrong.

Or it could be correct. Just because you present another method that might be correct doesn't automatically mean that mine is wrong. I didn't say mine was the correct view, I merely said it was a theory.

You have your view and we have ours. You ask people to STOP assuming, and yet you're doing the verything you asked. Your point of view assumes that Nexon intended for things to be that way. Our point of view said it's unintended. After all, how could something designed to work on one set of items would work on another set as an intended feature? Again, you're not going to bend on your view, and so are we. Stop enforcing.

Then stop attacking me on it.

And again guys, don't say things as if it were a fact, unless you have proper proof.

This thread is full of it, including the usage of common sense as a predictor.

Oh and yeah. It's morally wrong to abuse a glitch unless everyone does it. Just thought I'd hit you guys up with that.

That's interesting how you put it. When you go to war and your squad is ordered to kill the enemy, would that automatically make killing morally correct?

It's also factual. In case you're wondering where my pessimism comes from, it's because I've had to fend for myself more than once. Life for me was not all sunshine and lollipops.

I suppose you're right. However, Nexon doesn't need to deceive you, whereas, the people with whom you had to fend yourself might have needed to.

How am I not suppose to use "sarcasm" if I'm dealing with a guy that can't look the right way? People can do the darnedest things everyday.

I dump the "common" sense as an explanation. That's why unless someone gives me objective data, I'm going to sit on my view. Right now the only objective data that's been presented in these whole few pages is the fact that other versions have this event. Well, great that other versions have it. Do they work on their gacha branch noses? What if they do? Are they supposed to? Nobody has answered that question yet and are still trying to change my views on the basis of the "common" sense.

You must have brought up the BF glitch believing it to be relevant to Tree Saps. We're just taking it one step further down the conversational tree. Also, the OP left the thread to be pretty open, since all he did was say "Didn't see a thread on it..." and posted a picture of a Tree Sap. All interpretations and related shyts are go!

I didn't bring up the Bigfoot glitch. Rather, people claimed I was wrong because I supported the view that Bigfoot and Clean Slate were not glitches.

The FM DC situation is... well, really hard to stop before it happens. Do you have any suggestions?

Yes, I do. Have a GM monitor the FM. Really, it's the equivalent of hiring bodyguards.

Allow me to demonstrate a useful strategy for banning h4x0rz (I suspect Nexon does this as well). People know that the goal of most h4x0rz is to lvl up ludicrously fast and get as much mesos as possible. To do this, they need to kill monsters. But they could kill any kind of monster. Popular training maps are great choices for this, due to low HP/exp ratios, excellent drops, or a combination of the two. Odds are good that there will be h4x0rz in those training areas, and the continued presence of h4x0rz in given "hot spots", while disparaging to the legit user population, gives h4x0rz the assurance that they can get away with whatever they are doing. This, however, does not give them the guarantee that Nexon hasn't caught them in the act. Nexon knows they have it coming now; it's just a matter of banning them soon and eventually, but preferably not in a manner obvious to others. In doing this covertly, Nexon can "bait" other, different h4x0r individuals into the same hot spots and keep tabs on them as well. In the meantime between phases, they scout out reports from unpopular regions of the world and catch h4x0rz who hope to evade detection by doing their business in places where no one looks. The eventual message they want to get across is that they will be caught, no matter what. This doesn't stop the most stubborn and arrogant people though.

Before they do that, why don't they look in the obvious places where the hackers are interfering with legit leveling and boost their publicity?

Ultimately, Nexon wants to find a programming solution to patch up the h4x. Initial behavior study on the game simulation is useful in determining what exploit they are using in order to h4x the game. If Nexon just banned every h4x0r on the spot without observing what's going on, they won't learn anything useful.

Hackers in popular locations hack the same way as hackers in hidden locations. They're all script kiddies downloading the same hacks from CheatEngine. The professional hackers don't hack for level gain or meso gain because they don't need to.

And while all that drama is going on, GMs have to respond to all other types of reports, as well as fulfill their other duties as employees such as playing customer service reps (somewhat doubtful, but who knows).

Easy solution: hire more GMs. It takes more than a few staff to run a game. Let's say the population of Maple is 1 million players. Having a team of 100 players simply isn't going to be enough. That's like having 1 staff per 10,000. It's not going to work.

Another factor contributing to lack of response is that, while we know what's going on, GMs aren't in on the loop, and are fairly slow on picking up all of our ambiguous signals until someone somewhere raises the alarm and says "I've had enough". Sure, we talk about h4x0rz in guild chat or w/e, but GMs won't necessarily be able to spy on that, or pick it out later if they have convo logs (doubtful).

You know that people send tickets about hacks? If Nexon didn't use their stupid auto-reply program, they'd actually catch some of it.

Yet another factor contributing to lack of GM response and presence is economics. (this is one huge balancing act, but I will only go over one topic.) In Nexon's interest, they want to squeeze as much productivity off of their employees as possible. Let's say it takes 30 GMs to stave off h4x0rz in an epidemic, such as PG h4xing epidemic, in order to keep a good proportion of the users happy. Then say that the code monkeys found a solution to stop ALL PG h4x0rz, which makes h4xing practically non-existent. Then that's a good 15 GMs who are being paid to do nothing but sit on their asses all day (relatively conservative estimate). Nexon's losing money! Nexon isn't there to just serve our asses either, they're in it for the money. So what they're looking for is a good balance of GMs that can keep a sufficient amount of users happy during h4xing epidemics (gl with that) while still getting their money's worth when h4xing becomes virtually zero in an on-off cycle of h4xes.

They're not keeping a good proportion of the users happy. The users are only still playing because of habituation to the hackers. What they could do is allocate some of the GMs to public relations, like what they did with NXJoeW a while ago.

Logic and math pretty much go hand in hand. It's words that causes error of interpretation, thus the birth of the field of logic. Logic is the science that attempts to define something as objectively as possible as to leave little room for false interpretation. Math proofs do very much the same thing, only its foundations are based off of other proofs, and ultimately abstract foundations such as numbers.

Math proofs do the same thing except that there is almost no room for interpretation. Logic leaves room for interpretation. However, I bring this up because people here are basing logic off "common sense" and that's not logic, that's BS.

I never mentioned the Clean Slate glitch. Also, stop putting yourself in the future and put yourself in the present of a situation. According to you, big government decisions and political judgment in court are all baloney because they use hindsight to solve their disputes.

No, they use past examples as references, not as their entire argument.

And as for my views on BF before it was announced to be a glitch, I thought it was highly suspicious that a 32 million HP monster could be taken out in a matter of a minute or two, on top of giving out 2.66 million exp. That's just game-breaking and really lopsidedly favorable the classes that do have %-based HP-damaging abilities. Any decently respectful gaming company wouldn't allow that to happen (if you disagree with this, feel free to explain), so therefore that must be a mistake by Nexon and therefore a glitch (more like an oversight imo).

Any decent company wouldn't allow that to happen. Assuming Nexon is a decent gaming company and they allowed it to happen might suggest something about the intent.

Again, try predicting something sometime. Play a game of chess if you have to.

You could predict in a game of chess, but you can't know for certain. While you think you have the opponent's moves mapped out, the other player can ninja you in a way that you didn't predict.

Because we the people feel there is something wrong with your morals and feel that we must correct it. Or something. Could be arrogance. For me, my issue with you is that you're displaying lots of "American" ignorance.

Don't attack my logic based on discrimination.

What if silence doesn't speak conformity? What if silence is better than noise, like sitting on the lid of a boiling pot as politicians (referring to pre-Civil War politics on slavery)? Nexon was silent on some h4x0r epidemics. Did Nexon approve of them?

The truth is that silence speaks conformity. Referring to the Holocaust, if Hitler's people didn't carry out his orders, then the extermination of the Jews wouldn't have happened. In fact, some of Hitler's officials said they were "just following orders".

If you did this without poison, then I forgive you. Otherwise, you're interpreting something for your convenience.

And who doesn't interpret things to their convenience? Let's say this: someone said that he was going to shoot you and then he reaches into his pocket. You shoot him before he extracts from his pocket a cell phone. Was that wrong for you to do that? The point of this is intent. Your intent to help came out wrong, does it automatically mean that you're just interpreting things for your convenience? What if he really did pull out a gun? Still the same interpretation?

Again, interpretation for your convenience. You feared that Nexon was going to fix the "exploit" (and I heard that they did). Whatever opportunity you took, it was something that doesn't come as often as getting an egg for your Pendant.Was that a rhetorical question? Did you really mean "if I were greedy" instead of "if I did"? In that case, it's to give yourself the justification for the actions you did, and they weren't really considered entirely honest, based on the reactions of some other people.

No, I didn't fear that. In fact, it wouldn't matter to me because if they had fixed it, then I could just resell the white scroll. What I did was test whether or not I could achieve more than 5 slots on my cape. I didn't know whether it would, I just tried it. In fact, before I tried it, I thought that it probably might not even work, because there was no evidence that it would. People were only using clean slates and whatever weapons they wanted to improve.

You seemed to have been okay with this for a while. Also, the actual subject of the thread is sort of ambiguous.

I seem to be OK, because I was merely defending myself in my beliefs. However, when people started using those as examples, that's when it crossed the line.

In establishing the grounds of compromise on what's considered a glitch or w/e, we can settle the questions surrounding the messed up Branch Noses once and for all on what is considered proper use of Liar Tree Sap 100%.

"Messed up" branch noses eh? So what IS the proper use of the Tree Saps. If you didn't bother reading all of that, I'll say it again for all the tl;dr's. As it has been stated, the Tree Saps were direct copies of what's in other versions. However, some questions still remain:

• Are their gacha tree branches the same as their event ones or different?
  
• Are their gacha tree branches named differently or the same?
  
• Do their tree saps work on their gacha tree branches or not?
  
• How did their version's companies reply to the situation
  

Without these answered, I'm not changing my view. Do NOT attack me on the basis of common sense.

How has Harrisonized not been banned for trolling yet? This is ridiculous.

Because I'm not trolling.