2015-01-13, 05:10 PM
The biggest mistake is exactly that-> people think that criticism against ideology is hate against the people. Liberals are so scared of being put on the same side with the far right politicians, that they're defending ideologies and ideas that are everything but liberal.
I'm not saying that the majority of muslims are islamists, many are victims of islamists. Those kids killed in their school in Pakistan were muslim. Most in the town that Boko Haram attacked were muslim. Many people also confuse islamism with terrorism.
[video=youtube;BCM2rU7mFKk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCM2rU7mFKk[/video]
I'm not suggesting military action, I'm as anti-war as you can be. Answering violence with violence creates even more violence (Iraq War). Islamism is like a Hydra, you kill one head and you get two more. Stuff that US and Israel have done have effectively just fueled terrorist ideology against the western world.
What could we do then? In this case, west should start with US and UK cutting their ties to Saudi government. Unfortunately I doubt this will ever happen as long as oil is as valuable as it is nowadays.
As for Charlie Hebro case, every paper should publish mohammed cartoons. You can be sure that if you submit to one of their demands, there's a lot more to follow. That's the message of an ex-muslim whose friend was killed for much same reasons as the cartoonists at Charlie Hebro:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...alive.html
The reason why I wanted to make this thread was because all this is hitting kind of close home for me. I love to draw and want to do that for a living, growing up I wanted to be a cartoonist. I'm also an atheist and I've been very critical of organized religions. Charlie could've been me.
I'm not saying that the majority of muslims are islamists, many are victims of islamists. Those kids killed in their school in Pakistan were muslim. Most in the town that Boko Haram attacked were muslim. Many people also confuse islamism with terrorism.
[video=youtube;BCM2rU7mFKk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCM2rU7mFKk[/video]
I'm not suggesting military action, I'm as anti-war as you can be. Answering violence with violence creates even more violence (Iraq War). Islamism is like a Hydra, you kill one head and you get two more. Stuff that US and Israel have done have effectively just fueled terrorist ideology against the western world.
What could we do then? In this case, west should start with US and UK cutting their ties to Saudi government. Unfortunately I doubt this will ever happen as long as oil is as valuable as it is nowadays.
As for Charlie Hebro case, every paper should publish mohammed cartoons. You can be sure that if you submit to one of their demands, there's a lot more to follow. That's the message of an ex-muslim whose friend was killed for much same reasons as the cartoonists at Charlie Hebro:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...alive.html
Ayaan Hirsi Ali Wrote:In Holland, when my friend Theo Van Gogh was killed just over 10 years ago, what followed—after the initial shock—was that a lot of people started saying that he was a provocateur, and that he had offended Muslims. For me, it was morally very clear. You were morally very confused if you thought that somebody who uses speech, who uses words, who uses the pen, should be killed for that; if you thought that the only way to have a dialogue is for one side to use words while the other side uses violence to make their point. Everyone out there who says, “Charlie Hebdo provoked,” is making the same fundamental error.
We do need to wake up to the fact that there is a movement—a very lethal movement, very cruel—that has a political vision about how the world should be organized and how society should live. And in order for them to realize their vision, they are willing to use any means. They are willing to use violence. They are willing to use terror.
Is this some kind of cult? Or are the principles of this cult embedded in Islam? I happen to think they are embedded in Islam. The only way peace-loving Muslims can get rid of this is by reforming their religion so that, for example, it can no longer provide justifications for murdering people deemed to be blasphemers. And while they go about reforming their religion, which will take some time, we who do not adhere to that religion need to defend our own values. Freedom of speech. Freedom of publication. And the rule of law.
The reason why I wanted to make this thread was because all this is hitting kind of close home for me. I love to draw and want to do that for a living, growing up I wanted to be a cartoonist. I'm also an atheist and I've been very critical of organized religions. Charlie could've been me.