2013-09-20, 07:31 PM
Wow. First of all, great thread. Thank you [MENTION=5658]xparasite9[/MENTION]; for getting this conversation started. I've read the first two pages so far, and intend to read the rest but I just wanted to respond and throw in my two cents to this whole conversation.
Firstly, a lot of great comments by everyone. I don't think it's a matter of who is right or wrong at this point. A lot of you are arguing about whether or not players should know better or if Nexon is to blame. I think it's somewhere in the middle. As someone pointed out earlier, this topic is nothing new and has been beat to death. What's interesting about this topic is its specificity and the amount of people who have played for years (some since beta like myself) and are now in their twenties able to look back and put together the pieces.
A lot of editorials have been posted on Maple-News.com over the past two years about the declining stature of the game. I am not expert on business models or finance, but a lot of what you guys are saying seems right on the nose. Specifically, that Nexon expected the same business model that was successful in Asia, specifically South Korea and Japan, to work in the United States and Canada. If those of you played before or around 2008 are part of this thread then you'll surely remember when things started taking off for Nexon. In my opinion, MapleStory was somewhat of a fluke here in North America. MapleGlobal (or whatever they call it now?) was somewhat of a hit almost immediately. You can try and pin down what exactly made the game so appealing, and although it was certainly a combination of features, I would say the unique graphics allowed it to stand out from the crowd and its focus on building a community and interacting with others more than just talking, but through quests and just from the mere fact that in some ways the game was mundane and it forced you to find creative ways to enjoy yourself...mainly through interaction with other players. MapleGlobal beta launched in 2005 and if all of you were around 11-14 during that time period the main means of connecting with your friends over the internet was MySpace, instant messaging, and e-mail. MapleStory combined those elements perfectly by creating a literal virtual world that operated in real time (unlike a lot of CD-R computer games and obviously console games). Essentially you could come home from school and hang out with tons of friends all over the world, play a video game, and talk. Things started to change when the cash shop was implemented and then the real nail in the coffin was obviously pay-to-win items such as miracle cubes. I would like to point out that when the MapleGlobal staff first released the cash shop they promised that players who chose to not buy NX, or could not buy it, would not be at an unfair disadvantage and that the game would always be on a level playing field. For a number of years, the cash shop functioned as mainly a beauty parlor and clothing store. If you wanted to look more unique and have a pet to make things a bit easier, then you could buy some NX. Then store permits came in, which were reasonably priced but effectively killed the Match Card and Omok makeshift stores in major towns like Perion.
The fact of the matter is I don't believe Nexon ever truly evaluated who their consumers were and what they wanted. Again, I believe this game got lucky in the beginning and was somewhat of a fluke. Nexon wasted tons of money and effort criminalizing private server creators. The irony is, they were a reaction to their opinions and suggestions for features for MapleStory being ignored. Nexon's solution? Sue the pineapple out of them. I do understand the intellectual property argument - it certainly is valid to an extent. But the reality is, most of these servers had at most a couple thousand players on at once and even that was rare. Many people played both private servers and the official game and when Nexon actually did some things right in 2009/2010, private server activity decreased. It's a similar argument to piracy today. The intelligent decision would have been to go to private server owners and players and asking them what they would like added to the official version and made them feel like they were actually being listened to instead of ignored. Convenience is another huge issue that has since been somewhat resolved.
[MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; I think you are dead on. People assume Nexon America is actually calling a lot of the shots. Let's just say they put on a good act and when you're a teenager, you assume that this huge company really knows what's going on. I'm not saying Nexon America doesn't have input and are at fault for the day to day management of the game, but I just don't think they care as much as we would think they do. Nexon America is merely the translation office. They'll throw in some custom events and features once in a blue moon, but most of this crap is just transplanted from KMS to GMS. There's no reevaluation or discussion. Why? Money. Like most multi-million dollar companies, the bottom line is a big deal. Who knows what North America really is to Nexon Korea? I'd assume we're not as important as we might think and thus it is more cost efficient to just translate the updates from the development team in Korea to the North American version. Hell, just look at the recent translation pineapple up at what was it, MSEA or EMS? I mean c'mon. It's cheaper to just put a new cover on a can than to completely reevaluate whether the country you are shipping it too may have different tastes, needs, or preferences. Nexon America tried to fit in, albeit pathetically, with the ads that ran on MTV, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon in 2008. Remember the fish slap commercial? The pig? Yeah. Everyone playing at the time thought the game was going to blow up. But it didn't. That's not to say they didn't get new players and that things went downhill immediately, but it's pretty clear that Nexon expected they would get tons of people by appealing to kids in the age group they saw were playing MapleStory around 2008. MapleStory never reached the success of a game like World of Warcraft and I don't think as a company they were willing to stop and truly evaluate why they had gotten success in the first place and accept the truth that MapleStory fills a particular niche, not the other way around.
As Khaini said, if you intend to play the game and don't have tons of disposable income, aren't willing to hack, scam, and cheat your way to the top, or just don't plain have the time or patience to play every day you should just accept that you probably aren't going to be #1 on the rankings doing godly damage. But hey, that's okay, right? It's clear that younger kids, and even those who are in college are being taken advantage of financially. I too understand the feeling in 2011 when cash shop surprises came out and the anticipation and near-addiction to try and get a pink bean pet. I myself blew about $30 on that. It just so happens that young people very rarely have tons of disposable income consistently, which I suppose is a good thing. Is this clear difference between the 1% of maplers who have the money to spend and the 99% of us who don't okay? Absolutely not. It has severely affected the way the game is played and virtually eradicated human interaction. Things aren't going to get any better at this rate. We can remain optimistic to an extent but maybe it's just time for most of us to let go. I don't play often, but sometimes I do for an hour or so and it's somewhat enjoyable. I do miss the days when there was an active guild to login to, party quests to participate in, and where I made real lasting friendships. That's still there - you just have to work really hard to find those people and stick with them. As far as damage goes, as Khaini said, you just have to accept it. Would we all love to be some merchant king and doing bad ass damage? Of course! But hey, that's way to much pineappleing work for me. I'm content just leveling and enjoying myself with others.
The sad reality, as is obvious by the drop in active players and the death of numerous fan sites, is that this game probably won't be around in a few years. And if it is, well, it will be home to an elite mechanical ward of players. I'd much rather watch my microwave than play MapleStory at that point. At some point MapleStory will become obsolete and a new game will replace it and fill this particular 2D sidescrolling niche. I have no doubt about that. It's had a decent run, but maybe a lot of us need to just accept that the end is near. Miracles can happen, though.
Really interested to read all of your posts!
EDIT: [MENTION=1631]Xaorath[/MENTION]; loved your post dude. Dead on. What I would like to see, personally, is an actual honest response from Nexon. I get that they think they're some fancy internet company because they're in L.A. or Silicon Valley or wherever they hell they are with a big fancy sign and a nice office and thus have to have some professional PR person ignore every legitimate question and only promote the 'next big thing' coming to the game but I think we can all agree the facade is a waste of time. We all see through it. What would actually save their business is at least making an effort to connect with each and every player who genuinely cares about the game (essentially everyone here at Southperry) and doing so in a personal and meaningful manner. I think a lot of us would feel invigorated just to hear them admit things are wrong (specifically, of course) and present a plan or at least a time frame in which some issues would be addressed. This whole faceless corporation act isn't working anymore and they'll all wish they paid attention when they're all out of a job.
The reality is, I've interviewed Nexon for Maple-News.com several times over the years. We did our last Q&A just last year. I got approval for another interview this past summer, but I just didn't follow through. I could give you a list of reasons why I should have. Even if nothing special came of it, it would have brought hits to Maple-News. But, for some reason, I just couldn't lie or convince myself that it was worth the effort. Ironically, I started Maple-News because I actually enjoyed this game and the people who played it and just wanted a creative outlet and a way to connect with a community. I admired forums and communities I was part of prior to starting MNN in 2007. But, interview after interview even when I asked a slightly honest question that wasn't "What events do you have coming up next month?" "What's the new big update?" that was geared at the questionable changes they were making to the game, they simply 'removed' the questions and sent me a brand new interview of questions they compiled that would show the company in a better light. I tried this maybe, two or three times. It wasn't until last year when I chose the top voted questions here on Southperry that they were forced to answer a few of the questions that actually focused on problems with the game. Just look at how Southperry was treated up until recently. First, declared a site that was hurtful to MapleStory and threatened for harmless extractions, but as soon as they start seeing the tide turning and realize they have to actually reach out to fan communities, only then is a damn given. Maybe I'm an idealist and I guess I should have expected that result, but my point in bringing it up is to give yet another example of why this game was clearly doomed after 2008.
Nexon, the door is always open to reach out and maybe start an actual dialogue between your company and your players. God knows we have a lot to say.
Firstly, a lot of great comments by everyone. I don't think it's a matter of who is right or wrong at this point. A lot of you are arguing about whether or not players should know better or if Nexon is to blame. I think it's somewhere in the middle. As someone pointed out earlier, this topic is nothing new and has been beat to death. What's interesting about this topic is its specificity and the amount of people who have played for years (some since beta like myself) and are now in their twenties able to look back and put together the pieces.
A lot of editorials have been posted on Maple-News.com over the past two years about the declining stature of the game. I am not expert on business models or finance, but a lot of what you guys are saying seems right on the nose. Specifically, that Nexon expected the same business model that was successful in Asia, specifically South Korea and Japan, to work in the United States and Canada. If those of you played before or around 2008 are part of this thread then you'll surely remember when things started taking off for Nexon. In my opinion, MapleStory was somewhat of a fluke here in North America. MapleGlobal (or whatever they call it now?) was somewhat of a hit almost immediately. You can try and pin down what exactly made the game so appealing, and although it was certainly a combination of features, I would say the unique graphics allowed it to stand out from the crowd and its focus on building a community and interacting with others more than just talking, but through quests and just from the mere fact that in some ways the game was mundane and it forced you to find creative ways to enjoy yourself...mainly through interaction with other players. MapleGlobal beta launched in 2005 and if all of you were around 11-14 during that time period the main means of connecting with your friends over the internet was MySpace, instant messaging, and e-mail. MapleStory combined those elements perfectly by creating a literal virtual world that operated in real time (unlike a lot of CD-R computer games and obviously console games). Essentially you could come home from school and hang out with tons of friends all over the world, play a video game, and talk. Things started to change when the cash shop was implemented and then the real nail in the coffin was obviously pay-to-win items such as miracle cubes. I would like to point out that when the MapleGlobal staff first released the cash shop they promised that players who chose to not buy NX, or could not buy it, would not be at an unfair disadvantage and that the game would always be on a level playing field. For a number of years, the cash shop functioned as mainly a beauty parlor and clothing store. If you wanted to look more unique and have a pet to make things a bit easier, then you could buy some NX. Then store permits came in, which were reasonably priced but effectively killed the Match Card and Omok makeshift stores in major towns like Perion.
The fact of the matter is I don't believe Nexon ever truly evaluated who their consumers were and what they wanted. Again, I believe this game got lucky in the beginning and was somewhat of a fluke. Nexon wasted tons of money and effort criminalizing private server creators. The irony is, they were a reaction to their opinions and suggestions for features for MapleStory being ignored. Nexon's solution? Sue the pineapple out of them. I do understand the intellectual property argument - it certainly is valid to an extent. But the reality is, most of these servers had at most a couple thousand players on at once and even that was rare. Many people played both private servers and the official game and when Nexon actually did some things right in 2009/2010, private server activity decreased. It's a similar argument to piracy today. The intelligent decision would have been to go to private server owners and players and asking them what they would like added to the official version and made them feel like they were actually being listened to instead of ignored. Convenience is another huge issue that has since been somewhat resolved.
KhainiWest Wrote:Solution? Quit. Honestly, that's just what the game has become. You can sit here and discuss it, but you're 4 years too late, you can petition for it, but I can guarantee itll be ignored. The changes you and I want, aren't really determined by the NA branch, but the korean branch, so it's a fruitless endeavor. It didn't become this overnight, it gradually reached this nightmare point, and it's only going to get worse. If you have the patience/toleration to know that you may not be able to do everything, or not only are other players willing to cut your throat, but nexon is willing to abandon you at any moment, then that's your choice. But I feel as though players who choose that decision don't have a right to complain. This is common knowledge, it isn't some legendary treasure trove of information.
[MENTION=4235]KhainiWest[/MENTION]; I think you are dead on. People assume Nexon America is actually calling a lot of the shots. Let's just say they put on a good act and when you're a teenager, you assume that this huge company really knows what's going on. I'm not saying Nexon America doesn't have input and are at fault for the day to day management of the game, but I just don't think they care as much as we would think they do. Nexon America is merely the translation office. They'll throw in some custom events and features once in a blue moon, but most of this crap is just transplanted from KMS to GMS. There's no reevaluation or discussion. Why? Money. Like most multi-million dollar companies, the bottom line is a big deal. Who knows what North America really is to Nexon Korea? I'd assume we're not as important as we might think and thus it is more cost efficient to just translate the updates from the development team in Korea to the North American version. Hell, just look at the recent translation pineapple up at what was it, MSEA or EMS? I mean c'mon. It's cheaper to just put a new cover on a can than to completely reevaluate whether the country you are shipping it too may have different tastes, needs, or preferences. Nexon America tried to fit in, albeit pathetically, with the ads that ran on MTV, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon in 2008. Remember the fish slap commercial? The pig? Yeah. Everyone playing at the time thought the game was going to blow up. But it didn't. That's not to say they didn't get new players and that things went downhill immediately, but it's pretty clear that Nexon expected they would get tons of people by appealing to kids in the age group they saw were playing MapleStory around 2008. MapleStory never reached the success of a game like World of Warcraft and I don't think as a company they were willing to stop and truly evaluate why they had gotten success in the first place and accept the truth that MapleStory fills a particular niche, not the other way around.
As Khaini said, if you intend to play the game and don't have tons of disposable income, aren't willing to hack, scam, and cheat your way to the top, or just don't plain have the time or patience to play every day you should just accept that you probably aren't going to be #1 on the rankings doing godly damage. But hey, that's okay, right? It's clear that younger kids, and even those who are in college are being taken advantage of financially. I too understand the feeling in 2011 when cash shop surprises came out and the anticipation and near-addiction to try and get a pink bean pet. I myself blew about $30 on that. It just so happens that young people very rarely have tons of disposable income consistently, which I suppose is a good thing. Is this clear difference between the 1% of maplers who have the money to spend and the 99% of us who don't okay? Absolutely not. It has severely affected the way the game is played and virtually eradicated human interaction. Things aren't going to get any better at this rate. We can remain optimistic to an extent but maybe it's just time for most of us to let go. I don't play often, but sometimes I do for an hour or so and it's somewhat enjoyable. I do miss the days when there was an active guild to login to, party quests to participate in, and where I made real lasting friendships. That's still there - you just have to work really hard to find those people and stick with them. As far as damage goes, as Khaini said, you just have to accept it. Would we all love to be some merchant king and doing bad ass damage? Of course! But hey, that's way to much pineappleing work for me. I'm content just leveling and enjoying myself with others.
The sad reality, as is obvious by the drop in active players and the death of numerous fan sites, is that this game probably won't be around in a few years. And if it is, well, it will be home to an elite mechanical ward of players. I'd much rather watch my microwave than play MapleStory at that point. At some point MapleStory will become obsolete and a new game will replace it and fill this particular 2D sidescrolling niche. I have no doubt about that. It's had a decent run, but maybe a lot of us need to just accept that the end is near. Miracles can happen, though.
Really interested to read all of your posts!
EDIT: [MENTION=1631]Xaorath[/MENTION]; loved your post dude. Dead on. What I would like to see, personally, is an actual honest response from Nexon. I get that they think they're some fancy internet company because they're in L.A. or Silicon Valley or wherever they hell they are with a big fancy sign and a nice office and thus have to have some professional PR person ignore every legitimate question and only promote the 'next big thing' coming to the game but I think we can all agree the facade is a waste of time. We all see through it. What would actually save their business is at least making an effort to connect with each and every player who genuinely cares about the game (essentially everyone here at Southperry) and doing so in a personal and meaningful manner. I think a lot of us would feel invigorated just to hear them admit things are wrong (specifically, of course) and present a plan or at least a time frame in which some issues would be addressed. This whole faceless corporation act isn't working anymore and they'll all wish they paid attention when they're all out of a job.
The reality is, I've interviewed Nexon for Maple-News.com several times over the years. We did our last Q&A just last year. I got approval for another interview this past summer, but I just didn't follow through. I could give you a list of reasons why I should have. Even if nothing special came of it, it would have brought hits to Maple-News. But, for some reason, I just couldn't lie or convince myself that it was worth the effort. Ironically, I started Maple-News because I actually enjoyed this game and the people who played it and just wanted a creative outlet and a way to connect with a community. I admired forums and communities I was part of prior to starting MNN in 2007. But, interview after interview even when I asked a slightly honest question that wasn't "What events do you have coming up next month?" "What's the new big update?" that was geared at the questionable changes they were making to the game, they simply 'removed' the questions and sent me a brand new interview of questions they compiled that would show the company in a better light. I tried this maybe, two or three times. It wasn't until last year when I chose the top voted questions here on Southperry that they were forced to answer a few of the questions that actually focused on problems with the game. Just look at how Southperry was treated up until recently. First, declared a site that was hurtful to MapleStory and threatened for harmless extractions, but as soon as they start seeing the tide turning and realize they have to actually reach out to fan communities, only then is a damn given. Maybe I'm an idealist and I guess I should have expected that result, but my point in bringing it up is to give yet another example of why this game was clearly doomed after 2008.
Nexon, the door is always open to reach out and maybe start an actual dialogue between your company and your players. God knows we have a lot to say.