2012-09-05, 08:12 AM
I am very dissapointed in how this "debate" is being handled. I can not even call this a debate, because there doesn't seem to be any reasonable arguments trying to dispute any facts or fiction.
First of all, I want to comment on the original video. I was quite disheartened when Bill Nye came out and basically said, (and unfortunately, it is not far off the mark) that all Creationists are scientifically illiterate and can thus not vote effectively, or even have any sort of reason. I am scientifically literate (I am in Engineering Physics: hard not to be in a program like that), have a very good grade standing, and I am also a Creationist. It is very offencive to me that Bill Nye would use his wide-reaching status and influence that he has on children and pretty much do the one thing that he blames us of doing: that there is only one real truth, and anything else is a complete lie. By using his platform like this, I can still say that I respect him as a scientist, but I have lost respect for him as a man.
Moving on to some of the other comments in this forum (I won't point out specific comments, but there would be no point seeing as everyone here seems to have the same opinion). There are many people here saying that Christians should get their own facts straight before trying to debate with other "scientifically literate" people. The fact is that our faith (and many of the other faiths, with the possible and real exception of fundamentalists and Catholics) leaves us open to interperate the holy book that we are given, and to decide within it how much of it we should believe. Keep in mind that it was written millenia ago, and that at that time it was geared towards the people of that time. Therefore, when reading something from centuries ago, we should take things with a grain of salt, and things like "an eye for an eye" should be talked about as if looking at the overall meaning, and not just the literal translation (Wow! The Bible is a translation? Who would have thunk it!) So with that in mind, it means that there is a general direction that our faith teaches us to follow, but the specifics of it are up to interpretation.
Now, I really have to point out Satellite's comment about the fossils, and saying that to dispute evolution is akin to saying that they think all fossils are fake. Now, I shall open with one word: seriously? Those that dispute evolution do not necessarily believe that all evidence supporting it is simply herrecy (I do hope I am spelling that correctly: don't get much opportunity to use it). I personally think that there is cause to believe in micro-evolution, that natural selection does occur, but I think that people who blindly believe that we have all evolved from bacteria looong ago are just as bad as the people who believe that the world is only 6000 years old: there are bound to be people on both sides, and I think that both theories are patently rediculous, but at least our side has a reason to think that, which goes back to my part of the Bible being geared towards people from a long time ago: for them, since there wasn't as much time in their life, a day meant a lot to them, and the story of the 7 days of Creation held a special part to them (Sunday, the Sabbath, was when the people rested, and when God "rested."). Once again, everything is open to interpretation, and the people who ask for proof about evolution are not asking about the stuff like if an alligator sees a chicken, but more so about what happened at the very beginning. Unless you had a time machine and either looked for the Big Bang and the evolution of the bacteria, or God's hand creating the universe, I think all that anyone can have on the subject of billions of years ago (or however long it was) is faith that the people who are telling us the answers are right.
This post is getting long, and I'd like to see if a reasonable debate can follow, so I'll just relate how I, as a protestant Christian, see how the world was created.
I believe that the world was created, designed by God's (or a Deity, depending on how you feel) hand. No, I don't think it was done in 6 days, but over time and through constant work he finally created a world in it's primitive prime: a variety of animals, in the sea, land, and air. Included in this he made a sentient life form, which is us (though I am sure some you you are doubting the "sentient" part of that sentance every day). Now, through many years, He guided us to write about the past, and the present (and the future) and many of those books were combined into one book, which was in turn used to guide others on their own path. It doesn't contain the inner workings of the universe, because that is for us to discover on our own: can any of you say that you would have as much today if you knew everything there was to know? I'd think you would get bored.
Anyways, for all I know some degree of evolution is true, but I believe that there is also some degree of Creationism that is also true. For Bill to say that, "I am right, and you are wrong, simply because I am smart," kind of shows how he can not see any middle ground at all. Debate! Don't just blindly follow a path. And, if you have kids, make sure that they know both sides of the story, so that they can decide what is right: if you only tell them one, they won't be able to form their own opinions, and threads like this may take form of one-sided "debates."
First of all, I want to comment on the original video. I was quite disheartened when Bill Nye came out and basically said, (and unfortunately, it is not far off the mark) that all Creationists are scientifically illiterate and can thus not vote effectively, or even have any sort of reason. I am scientifically literate (I am in Engineering Physics: hard not to be in a program like that), have a very good grade standing, and I am also a Creationist. It is very offencive to me that Bill Nye would use his wide-reaching status and influence that he has on children and pretty much do the one thing that he blames us of doing: that there is only one real truth, and anything else is a complete lie. By using his platform like this, I can still say that I respect him as a scientist, but I have lost respect for him as a man.
Moving on to some of the other comments in this forum (I won't point out specific comments, but there would be no point seeing as everyone here seems to have the same opinion). There are many people here saying that Christians should get their own facts straight before trying to debate with other "scientifically literate" people. The fact is that our faith (and many of the other faiths, with the possible and real exception of fundamentalists and Catholics) leaves us open to interperate the holy book that we are given, and to decide within it how much of it we should believe. Keep in mind that it was written millenia ago, and that at that time it was geared towards the people of that time. Therefore, when reading something from centuries ago, we should take things with a grain of salt, and things like "an eye for an eye" should be talked about as if looking at the overall meaning, and not just the literal translation (Wow! The Bible is a translation? Who would have thunk it!) So with that in mind, it means that there is a general direction that our faith teaches us to follow, but the specifics of it are up to interpretation.
Now, I really have to point out Satellite's comment about the fossils, and saying that to dispute evolution is akin to saying that they think all fossils are fake. Now, I shall open with one word: seriously? Those that dispute evolution do not necessarily believe that all evidence supporting it is simply herrecy (I do hope I am spelling that correctly: don't get much opportunity to use it). I personally think that there is cause to believe in micro-evolution, that natural selection does occur, but I think that people who blindly believe that we have all evolved from bacteria looong ago are just as bad as the people who believe that the world is only 6000 years old: there are bound to be people on both sides, and I think that both theories are patently rediculous, but at least our side has a reason to think that, which goes back to my part of the Bible being geared towards people from a long time ago: for them, since there wasn't as much time in their life, a day meant a lot to them, and the story of the 7 days of Creation held a special part to them (Sunday, the Sabbath, was when the people rested, and when God "rested."). Once again, everything is open to interpretation, and the people who ask for proof about evolution are not asking about the stuff like if an alligator sees a chicken, but more so about what happened at the very beginning. Unless you had a time machine and either looked for the Big Bang and the evolution of the bacteria, or God's hand creating the universe, I think all that anyone can have on the subject of billions of years ago (or however long it was) is faith that the people who are telling us the answers are right.
This post is getting long, and I'd like to see if a reasonable debate can follow, so I'll just relate how I, as a protestant Christian, see how the world was created.
I believe that the world was created, designed by God's (or a Deity, depending on how you feel) hand. No, I don't think it was done in 6 days, but over time and through constant work he finally created a world in it's primitive prime: a variety of animals, in the sea, land, and air. Included in this he made a sentient life form, which is us (though I am sure some you you are doubting the "sentient" part of that sentance every day). Now, through many years, He guided us to write about the past, and the present (and the future) and many of those books were combined into one book, which was in turn used to guide others on their own path. It doesn't contain the inner workings of the universe, because that is for us to discover on our own: can any of you say that you would have as much today if you knew everything there was to know? I'd think you would get bored.
Anyways, for all I know some degree of evolution is true, but I believe that there is also some degree of Creationism that is also true. For Bill to say that, "I am right, and you are wrong, simply because I am smart," kind of shows how he can not see any middle ground at all. Debate! Don't just blindly follow a path. And, if you have kids, make sure that they know both sides of the story, so that they can decide what is right: if you only tell them one, they won't be able to form their own opinions, and threads like this may take form of one-sided "debates."