Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job

Don't archers have higher total ranges than gunslingers? I thought gunslingers had high % attacks due to their lack of Attack Range.

Bullet attack.

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this is indeed interesting. too bad i still don't really care about the raw numbers.

corsairs NEED the ship to outdamage the other ranged classes - without it they're probably on par with pallys. low levels their ship won't last, high levels it will. at HT, i cannot see the ship lasting very long at all, due to the high damage on each of his attacks. BM(MM)/NL pairs would still be picked over corsairs at this point, the corsairs can have zak for all i care. either way - if i was organizing a run, i'd take the highest levels, pretty much regardless of class. if there's a 160 pally and a 150 hero, i'd take the pally. same with a 160MM and 150BM. both sets in the pair have their main skills in place, just the 10 levels of AP does crazy things for your damage. screw mages lol... they need to be like 170+ w/ insane equips to compete with a mediocre equipped 140 attacking class.

they can outdamage use on the pinnable bosses, that's fine. we can still control them easier. each class has their advantages, ours is puppet and passive mob control (birds), theirs is raw damage with the proviso that their ship stays intact. if a corsair loses control of anego / crow / what have you, they have to run like the dickens on a mount / recoil after demounting ship, whereas an archer can just calmly place a puppet ahead / behind them and resume attacking, or a NL can FJ / darksight (for crow/BF) / fake+natural avoid away the hit.


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you wouldnt have to spazz and run away from anego
just use one float-recoil-float macro and your good.

Don't archers have higher total ranges than gunslingers? I thought gunslingers had high % attacks due to their lack of Attack Range.

Their high skill % is due to their lack of a base critical. If they had archer type skill % and no base critical, no doubt they'd be the worst class in the game.

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this is indeed interesting. too bad i still don't really care about the raw numbers.

corsairs NEED the ship to outdamage the other ranged classes - without it they're probably on par with pallys. low levels their ship won't last, high levels it will. at HT, i cannot see the ship lasting very long at all, due to the high damage on each of his attacks. BM(MM)/NL pairs would still be picked over corsairs at this point, the corsairs can have zak for all i care. either way - if i was organizing a run, i'd take the highest levels, pretty much regardless of class. if there's a 160 pally and a 150 hero, i'd take the pally. same with a 160MM and 150BM. both sets in the pair have their main skills in place, just the 10 levels of AP does crazy things for your damage. screw mages lol... they need to be like 170+ w/ insane equips to compete with a mediocre equipped 140 attacking class.

they can outdamage use on the pinnable bosses, that's fine. we can still control them easier. each class has their advantages, ours is puppet and passive mob control (birds), theirs is raw damage with the proviso that their ship stays intact. if a corsair loses control of anego / crow / what have you, they have to run like the dickens on a mount / recoil after demounting ship, whereas an archer can just calmly place a puppet ahead / behind them and resume attacking, or a NL can FJ / darksight (for crow/BF) / fake+natural avoid away the hit.


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There's more strategy to boss pinning with a captain than raw damage/run like hell.
That's why they have other skills that aren't battleship/cannon, such as the summons, rapid fire, the elemental shots, homing, even good ol' triple fire.

Correction: Pinnable bosses that won't pineapple you over with their speed.

Example: Bigfoot and HH. They move too fast for you to pin them back. HH is slow enough where you can pin him exactly where he's standing but you can't push him back mainly because cannon does not have enough hits to KB twice in one attack like TT can.

You can pin anego, but she's slower iirc.

Correction: Pinnable bosses that won't pineapple you over with their speed.

Example: Bigfoot and HH. They move too fast for you to pin them back. HH is slow enough where you can pin him exactly where he's standing but you can't push him back mainly because cannon does not have enough hits to KB twice in one attack like TT can.

You can pin anego, but she's slower iirc.

Anego has 60 speed, Headless horseman has -15.
wat


Bigfoot has 90 speed, but he's got those invincibility frames that make it so that pinning is basically impossible for any class...

Anego has 60 speed, Headless horseman has -15.
wat


Bigfoot has 90 speed, but he's got those invincibility frames that make it so that pinning is basically impossible for any class...

-15 speed would be when he's angry or idle? If you've ever fought him you should have realized that his speed increases a lot when you hit him. Besides, i couldn't pin HH, but this guy can pin anego.

Wut.

-15 speed would be when he's angry or idle? If you've ever fought him you should have realized that his speed increases a lot when you hit him. Besides, i couldn't pin HH, but this guy can pin anego.

Wut.

I guess I overlooked that, har. Though, I've fought him before but I don't recall him being faster than anego. I easily had him pinned doing 20k/20k with brandish
Wait, you have a captain with max battleship cannon already?

Cannon aside, the captain could probably keep anything pinned with rapid fire. Even if it's damage is rather low, it's fast and strong enough to keep those mobile bosses pinned since they have a rather low requirement for KB.

There's more strategy to boss pinning with a captain than raw damage/run like hell.
That's why they have other skills that aren't battleship/cannon, such as the summons, rapid fire, the elemental shots, homing, even good ol' triple fire.

raw damage / run like hell is almost exactly what NL's do, and it's pretty dam effective.

needless to say, it's idiotic to use a mob move on a mobile boss. a GS's summon is gaviota, which is *cough* useless *cough*. air strike technically isn't a summon, but an actual attack, and its also a mob move, so that's out as well. homing is automatically there for mobile bosses, i wasn't even gonna mention it cause i assumed everyone knew they would be using homing... and why use TF when RF does a better job of pinning? that's EXACTLY like an archer switching from hurr to strafe, or strafe to DS. it's just stupid.

I guess I overlooked that, har. Though, I've fought him before but I don't recall him being faster than anego. I easily had him pinned doing 20k/20k with brandish
Wait, you have a captain with max battleship cannon already?

Cannon aside, the captain could probably keep anything pinned with rapid fire. Even if it's damage is rather low, it's fast and strong enough to keep those mobile bosses pinned since they have a rather low requirement for KB.

Mah speshul serber.

Rapid pomegranate isn't going to be used anyway. Most people will follow mine or briberys build and we don't advise rapid until 14x. >_> That captain was weird and maxed cannon, homing, rapid and air strike for some reason.

.. and why use TF when RF does a better job of pinning? that's EXACTLY like an archer switching from hurr to strafe, or strafe to DS. it's just stupid.

And if rapid pomegranate is level 1 and can't KB anything/gets raped by triple fire?

raw damage / run like hell is almost exactly what NL's do, and it's pretty dam effective.

But captains don't have the instant mobility that NLs have. FJ is your instant gratification, whereas you have to do a lot of setup work to pull a captain's getaway.

needless to say, it's idiotic to use a mob move on a mobile boss. a GS's summon is gaviota, which is *cough* useless *cough*. air strike technically isn't a summon, but an actual attack, and its also a mob move, so that's out as well. homing is automatically there for mobile bosses, i wasn't even gonna mention it cause i assumed everyone knew they would be using homing... and why use TF when RF does a better job of pinning? that's EXACTLY like an archer switching from hurr to strafe, or strafe to DS. it's just stupid.

hurr durr

Anyway;
I'm not talking about directly using it on the boss, that'd be dumb indeed, but I'm talking about strategizing around the boss.

IE; You could set up advanced octo turrets focused on the boss and they'd be doing quite a punch of quick damage while you're fighting the boss.
And if you're facing a mobile boss that spawns along with other weaker monsters, you'll thank the mob skills if they start running around your character and knocking you around while you fight.

I was kinda being sarcastic with the triple fire thing, though. "...and even good ol'.."

To me it looks like Bowmasters win hands down. No need to muck around with activating Battleship and it looks like Hurricane still has better KB capability than any skills Gunslingers have...maybe I'll quit my gunslinger and make a Bowmaster. lol

To me it looks like Bowmasters win hands down. No need to muck around with activating Battleship and it looks like Hurricane still has better KB capability than any skills Gunslingers have...maybe I'll quit my gunslinger and make a Bowmaster. lol

Hm, Battleship does a hell of a lot more on a per-hit basis so Corsairs can KB earlier, if not as well once both classes can KB. Battleship isn't too much of an inconvenience once it builds up some durability. It's not like Hurricane gives you much mobility, either (though archers do come equipped with more skills that make up for low mobility, such as DB, Puppet, and MB.) I have both (well, not a Corsair, yet, obviously) so I don't think I'm speaking with any bias. Both have their upsides and downsides. Corsairs have the upper hand in a theoretical battle where you don't recieve any damage and your target doesn't move. Bowmasters and Marksmen have a lot of support skills that give them the ability to deal with situations that Corsairs can't handle well, and they don't rely on Battleship, so they might win in a realistic matchup at, say, Zakum or Horntail, or Bigfoot.

or Bigfoot.

If the KB was fixed the corsair would rape bigfoot with homing.

If the KB was fixed the corsair would rape bigfoot with homing.

if the KB was fixed, i'm sure even pallys would rape it.

BM's have trouble until they can do the 2k+ min per arrow, as he tries to bum rush you like a bum would rush you. NL's can do the KB easier cause it KB's twice in the bottom 3 stars.

if his KB was fixed, it'd be like a MM pinning anego. sure, it can be done, but it's still pretty hard cause of strafe's fire speed. screw up you're dead, if you're using battleship. (anego shoots you from about 100 pixels, but BF moves faster iirc).

not nessicarily dead. We can move pretty damn fast.
If you got some dex shoes w/ like 10 jump and got float-recoil-float on a macro your safe and the dmg from recoil would probably kb him aswell.

not nessicarily dead. We can move pretty damn fast.
If you got some dex shoes w/ like 10 jump and got float-recoil-float on a macro your safe and the dmg from recoil would probably kb him aswell.

You can't use Wings or Recoil in Battleship mode (that'd be fucking insane). Battleship also slows you down. You have to demount.

i know ytoud have to demount. BUt does it honestly take that long.

i know ytoud have to demount. BUt does it honestly take that long.

When BF travels at the speed he does, every half second makes a difference.

Hmm.. why not have'em both in the boss battle.That way SE would make rapid fire better to act as a stand by skill (i guess..)and it will also make cannon more stronger.
Also,if we have buccaneer in the party as well that way speed infusion would make cannon even more devastating.
And if this thread is for finding out whether corsairs can replace bowmasters i dont think that can ever happen because of SE anyways............