KMST 1.2.408 - More skill revamps

180% speed, 120% jump.

where you can get it

also... Cygnus Summons Needs a Great Revamp... all that Nexon is doing to them is LAME.... and even FAIL....

where you can get it

If you do the 'Little Indian' event enough times then you get it.

Inb4 NEXON's too busy making thief and pirates amazing to be bothered with classes who were already updated

Well, they certainly bothered with Evans.

Well, they certainly bothered with Evans.

What about Aran?

you keep climbing that mountain, gonna hurt a lot more when you fall from it

I got rope Those aren't my mains so won't bother me I'll just be interested to see what happens

I got rope Those aren't my mains so won't bother me I'll just be interested to see what happens

I think he's referring to Nexon.
The more revamps they do, the harder it is for them to stop with the revamps or make it worse than the previous.

I think he's referring to Nexon.
The more revamps they do, the harder it is for them to stop with the revamps or make it worse than the previous.

Ever since the Big Bang, I can already feel that it wouldn't be the last, all because some people got jealous because some classes did this while they couldn't do that. If they keep pulling this slippery slope then at that point, the Beginner will probably be the only balanced class in Maplestory.

If you do the 'Little Indian' event enough times then you get it.

This is me being terribly confused at KMS having an event based around Native Americans.

I think he's referring to Nexon.
The more revamps they do, the harder it is for them to stop with the revamps or make it worse than the previous.

Only because they clearly do revamps without looking at the math or the obvious imbalance in the placement of skills like Stance.
I mean, for flying fucks sake, they have Battle Mages with both Blue Aura and Advanced Blue Aura in the same job level!

I'll say it again and again:
If JoeTang or any other player can calculate the DPM of all classes, there's no reason that the people responsible for balancing the game can't do so.

The only reason they have to keep doing revamps is they never seem to even try to get it right the first time.

I think he's referring to Nexon.
The more revamps they do, the harder it is for them to stop with the revamps or make it worse than the previous.

i kinda mean both, he's getting to spirited over something that nexon has shown time and time again that they don't care about, and that is thieves and pirates.

@above: i hadn't even thought of that... wut just happened?

I'll say it again and again:
If JoeTang or any other player can calculate the DPM of all classes, there's no reason that the people responsible for balancing the game can't do so.

The only reason they have to keep doing revamps is they never seem to even try to get it right the first time.

That and/or they want to get the most money out of the biggest bandwagon.

This is me being terribly confused at KMS having an event based around Native Americans.


Only because they clearly do revamps without looking at the math or the obvious imbalance in the placement of skills like Stance.
I mean, for flying pineapples sake, they have Battle Mages with both Blue Aura and Advanced Blue Aura in the same job level!

I'll say it again and again:
If JoeTang or any other player can calculate the DPM of all classes, there's no reason that the people responsible for balancing the game can't do so.

The only reason they have to keep doing revamps is they never seem to even try to get it right the first time.

Maybe they know something I don't.

I think he's referring to Nexon.
The more revamps they do, the harder it is for them to stop with the revamps or make it worse than the previous.

I don't mind revamps. But lately it seems all KMS is pushing out. So far this one actually seems to be working out but that's just my opinion. I hope after this one they do take a break and revamp and add onto other stuff. How about a China Theme dungeon? A high level theme dungeon? New areas to Monster Park? New PQS, I can think of new areas they can add>.>

This is me being terribly confused at KMS having an event based around Native Americans.


Only because they clearly do revamps without looking at the math or the obvious imbalance in the placement of skills like Stance.
I mean, for flying fucks sake, they have Battle Mages with both Blue Aura and Advanced Blue Aura in the same job level!

I'll say it again and again:
If JoeTang or any other player can calculate the DPM of all classes, there's no reason that the people responsible for balancing the game can't do so.

The only reason they have to keep doing revamps is they never seem to even try to get it right the first time.

THEY TRY AND TRY AGAIN MANG then get it wrong again..I wanna see some more bosses, idc if they're not "godly high level" just stuff to do. How about KMS makes a PQ like CWKPQ with a pretty solid pq part and a nice boss fight with a good bonus?

I don't mind revamps. But lately it seems all KMS is pushing out. So far this one actually seems to be working out but that's just my opinion. I hope after this one they do take a break and revamp and add onto other stuff. How about a China Theme dungeon? A high level theme dungeon? New areas to Monster Park? New PQS, I can think of new areas they can add>.>

THEY TRY AND TRY AGAIN MANG then get it wrong again..I wanna see some more bosses, idc if they're not "godly high level" just stuff to do. How about KMS makes a PQ like CWKPQ with a pretty solid pq part and a nice boss fight with a good bonus?

I'd at least would like to see Battle Square get revamped. Or at the least, provide a more reasonable alternative to getting Gallant Emblems.

I'll say it again and again:
If JoeTang or any other player can calculate the DPM of all classes, there's no reason that the people responsible for balancing the game can't do so.

The only reason they have to keep doing revamps is they never seem to even try to get it right the first time.

It's not about DPM only. You forgot to factor in things like mobility, looks, party buffs, playing style, alchemy-like things, story line and other things. You can't only revamp them to the same DPM, as then they would still be unbalanced in other things.

It's not about DPM only. You forgot to factor in things like mobility, looks, party buffs, playing style, alchemy-like things, story line and other things. You can't only revamp them to the same DPM, as then they would still be unbalanced in other things.

But even then they arent good at that. Look at demon slayer. they have more suriviablity than paladins and better ( or equal) damage on bosses/mobs than hero's. Thats not balance at all. But u also have to keep in mind that the way this game is played. DPM is the majority of the factors. mobility doenst really matter too much because almost ALL boss attacks are 400% range & unaviodable attacks.
In my mind only factors to be characterize in balance is

1)1vs1 Dpm
2)Mob Dpm
3)party buffs
4)defence
5)alittle mobility

With the first 2 being the most pirorty as they have a rediculous high cap. Party buffs are exclusive so thats next. and Defence and Mobility are the least to be factor in as Defence has a 9999 Cap (which is EASLY obtained as a paladin. I have like 9.2k with 15% str.... lvl 180) and mobility has a easly obtainable cap and most mob skills cant be avoided that way. pretty much mainly used to get from one map to another fast.

Mobility matters not so much for defense as for DPM.
Joe's calculations assume targets stay conveniently in range, and (in the case of mobbing) are instantly replaced when dead.
In practical training scenarios, you spend at least some of your time chasing and grouping targets. If you can do that quickly and efficiently, your total DPM - and hence exp/min - go up. If you are short range, walk slow and can't push or pull - like 3rd job warriors - you are at a big disadvantage compared to another job with the same theoretical DPM but more speed, range, or kb moves.
In bossing scenarios, the ability to avoid getting knocked back or down when hit (either through avoiding getting hit or through a stance effect keeping you in place even when hit) again affects your DPM. If you have to spend half your zrun getting back to a platform from which you can hit the top arms... yeah.

Balance isn't just about adding up skill %'s and making them all come out the same.

Hyena mount all day!



Wait, you left a game that's heavily reliant on NX to be "Good" and went to a game in where "NX" is Mandatory for endgame?
See you in a few months.

"NX" in lunia for endgame? lol no
Myth 6 gear is cheap as ****

Mobility matters not so much for defense as for DPM.
Joe's calculations assume targets stay conveniently in range, and (in the case of mobbing) are instantly replaced when dead.
In practical training scenarios, you spend at least some of your time chasing and grouping targets. If you can do that quickly and efficiently, your total DPM - and hence exp/min - go up. If you are short range, walk slow and can't push or pull - like 3rd job warriors - you are at a big disadvantage compared to another job with the same theoretical DPM but more speed, range, or kb moves.
In bossing scenarios, the ability to avoid getting knocked back or down when hit (either through avoiding getting hit or through a stance effect keeping you in place even when hit) again affects your DPM. If you have to spend half your zrun getting back to a platform from which you can hit the top arms... yeah.

Balance isn't just about adding up skill %'s and making them all come out the same.

While that is true, for training purposes your point on mobility is rather null and void. Everyone trains at Monster Park or LHC, so there's not close to as much moving around as regular training which involves 1-2hit KO mobs. All you have to do for that is just get in range every oh 20 seconds or so, which does not play much of a mobility factor when you're training at LHC/Monster Park. Your point about mobility for DPS is somewhat relevant, for bosses like Zakum or CZakum. For the newer bosses like Akyrum, however, I'm not sure there's much of a use for mobility, as he kicks you out so often and you're not going to continuously run right into him with that pot cooldown. Less mobility might actually be an advantage there. Not to mention that just about every class now has a mobility skill (except Buccs).

While that is true, for training purposes your point on mobility is rather null and void. Everyone trains at Monster Park or LHC, so there's not close to as much moving around as regular training which involves 1-2hit KO mobs. All you have to do for that is just get in range every oh 20 seconds or so, which does not play much of a mobility factor when you're training at LHC/Monster Park. Your point about mobility for DPS is somewhat relevant, for bosses like Zakum or CZakum. For the newer bosses like Akyrum, however, I'm not sure there's much of a use for mobility, as he kicks you out so often and you're not going to continuously run right into him with that pot cooldown. Less mobility might actually be an advantage there. Not to mention that just about every class now has a mobility skill (except Buccs).

less mobility is never an advantage, since you can decide wether to be fast or slow on a fast char, but are doomed on a slow char.

point of mobility isn't null and void either, if you're having a 2man party for any map bar golems, a class with better mobility can come and KS you for the map, it does happen, at least in scania. and it turns into huge fights of "who gets the more KSed exp during 2x"

That and/or they want to get the most money out of the biggest bandwagon.

That doesn't even begin to make sense.

You forgot to factor in things like... looks,... , playing style, alchemy-like things, story line and other things.

Nor does this.

It's not about DPM only.

You can't only revamp them to the same DPM, as then they would still be unbalanced in other things.

Joe's calculations assume targets stay conveniently in range, and (in the case of mobbing) are instantly replaced when dead.
In practical training scenarios, you spend at least some of your time chasing and grouping targets. If you can do that quickly and efficiently, your total DPM - and hence exp/min - go up. If you are short range, walk slow and can't push or pull - like 3rd job warriors - you are at a big disadvantage compared to another job with the same theoretical DPM but more speed, range, or kb moves.
In bossing scenarios, the ability to avoid getting knocked back or down when hit (either through avoiding getting hit or through a stance effect keeping you in place even when hit) again affects your DPM. If you have to spend half your zrun getting back to a platform from which you can hit the top arms... yeah.

Balance isn't just about adding up skill %'s and making them all come out the same.

I guess people are just going to say obvious things all day?

I'm very much aware that theoretical DPM isn't all that matters. That's a no-brainer.
In fact, to act as if I said everyone's should be equal is as presumptuous as it is wrong.
My point is that they should be using those DPM charts to properly gauge where a class could use adjustment when compared to other classes of the same type (either in their DPM directly or through other special skills).
They clearly haven't been doing this.

For example, look at JoeTang's comparison of the three Adventure Warriors after this patch.
As a Paladin, the fact that I basically can't die makes me fairly comfortable with my DPM compared to the other two. I consider that to be an example of them actually doing something right.
But what about a Dark Knight?
Does having the ability to give party members extra HP make up for the fact that a Hero will out-damage him in basically every scenario?

I mean, Dark Knights can't really survive better than Heroes nor can they move faster nor can they stand in place better nor do they have a constant range advantage.
There are examples of this sort of thing everywhere, and one of them (Demonslayers) has already been mentioned.