Do you feel Nexon exploits it's playerbase?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation


So it is cruel/unjust to run a game and charge people to enjoy the game more?

Problem with your question is it ignores the fact that they intend to charge people to enjoy the game at all.
Now, plenty of businesses do this, but the microtransaction method deludes people into believing they're spending less than they really are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation


So it is cruel/unjust to run a game and charge people to enjoy the game more?

In terms of marketing I'd use the term exploit in cases where the small-print on a contract was used to deceive the customer into agreeing with something they don't know about.

That's the problem with wikipedia isn't it? It's not some all encompassing omnipotent writing from the gods.

[URL="http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aexploit#hl=en&q=exploit&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=RkWoTtbAEcL2gAf9of35Dw&ved=0CDAQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=323ec5db02b945de&biw=1600&bih=796"]google
[/URL]
Use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way

- the company was exploiting a legal loophole
- accusations that he exploited a wealthy patient


Here's a good article that might help you understand. The microtransaction business model is exploitative by its very nature. The funny part? Nexon has been doing this since before it had a name, and half of their players will still argue that it's completely fine and there's nothing wrong with what they do.
Contrivance_and_Extortion_InApp_Purchases__Microtransactions.php

a closer to home article

Problem with your question is it ignores the fact that they intend to charge people to enjoy the game at all.
Now, plenty of businesses do this, but the microtransaction method deludes people into believing they're spending less than they really are.

Well you can always not play if you don't enjoy it.

So lets assume nexon is exploiting us all? Who else is?

WoW? - I know people hate that this is brought up but it is perhaps the most well known MMO. They use the subscription system to exploit us. Clever devils.
Okay what next? The Car is dirty and someone offers to clean it. OMG EXPLOIT! He/She is using the fact that the car is dirty to gain money.
You need food to survive? The supermarket offers to give us food for a money? are they exploiting our hunger?

I could go on all day. Exploit isnt the word to describe this. But trying to get that accross is kinda impossible. lol

Okay what next? The Car is dirty and someone offers to clean it. OMG EXPLOIT! He/She is using the fact that the car is dirty to gain money.l

No, Nexon's approach is more like throwing pomegranate at your car and then charge you to clean it. xP

Well you can always not play if you don't enjoy it.

So lets assume nexon is exploiting us all? Who else is?

WoW? - I know people hate that this is brought up but it is perhaps the most well known MMO. They use the subscription system to exploit us. Clever devils.
Okay what next? The Car is dirty and someone offers to clean it. OMG EXPLOIT! He/She is using the fact that the car is dirty to gain money.
You need food to survive? The supermarket offers to give us food for a money? are they exploiting our hunger?

I could go on all day. Exploit isnt the word to describe this. But trying to get that accross is kinda impossible. lol

You're taking the nexon example, pulling out the bits that make your point fail, and coming up with new examples that fit in this broken idea you've come up with. Do you need to play maplestory? Do you need food to survive? Does your car stop working if you don't clean it? Do players that pay for WoW somehow differ from players who don't (besides you know... being able to play). Hopefully you see where I'm going.
Exploit specifically means it's an unfair method. It means they're using you. If you feel like becoming more knowledgeable on the subject, there's plenty of links online, including the ones I've posted above. Terms like "microtransactions exploitative", and "free to play exploitative" are good starting places.

IMO microtransactions are fine, but rule #1 for me is NEVER sell power.

It's a yes for me :/

Well you can always not play if you don't enjoy it.

Just popping in to say that this is the most enraging argument against anything ever. :l

^This. Should you choose to avoid the game entirely doesn't make the companies actions any less exploitative.

The way I see Nexon exploiting its player base is by making the game so much more enjoyable with the use of NX. Sure, you can train without a pet, you can train without one bit of potential stats on your items, sure you can make mesos without even a regular store, but I dare any of you calling up to this to create a new character and play it without any support or use of your already existant characters and of course, NX. You will see what I'm talking about. Maybe some of you are old players like I am and already went through that during the beginning of this game, but how many of you really enjoyed that or would enjoy it knowing that everyone else is getting boosted with the usage of NX? They sell the game as free2play, but once you're in it's either pay or pineapple you.


Exploiting the playerbase would be more 'acceptable' if the game's quality was, at least, as good as it should be by coming from Nexon Korea but when a game like KMS which is almost exactly as GMS and that should be making less money than GMS because of their permanent and tradable NX items, is in a better state than GMS, is it excusable for the server’s quality to be so low??

^This. Should you choose to avoid the game entirely doesn't make the companies actions any less exploitative.

This x 1000.

That's dumb. We have dictionaries for that.
[URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploit"]
"2.
to use selfishly for one's own ends: employers who exploit their workers."[/URL]

I'm pretty sure that means I win the thread and that Takebacker's claim that players exploit themselves is utterly nonsensical.
Right?

I only used the word exploit because it was used in the title. I still don't agree with the dropping of the word in the first place, much less to invalidate what i've said through a definition argument.

The way I see Nexon exploiting its player base is by making the game so much more enjoyable with the use of NX. Sure, you can train without a pet, you can train without one bit of potential stats on your items, sure you can make mesos without even a regular store, but I dare any of you calling up to this to create a new character and play it without any support or use of your already existant characters and of course, NX. You will see what I'm talking about. Maybe some of you are old players like I am and already went through that during the beginning of this game, but how many of you really enjoyed that or would enjoy it knowing that everyone else is getting boosted with the usage of NX? They sell the game as free2play, but once you're in it's either pay or pineapple you.


Exploiting the playerbase would be more 'acceptable' if the game's quality was, at least, as good as it should be by coming from Nexon Korea but when a game like KMS which is almost exactly as GMS and that should be making less money than GMS because of their permanent and tradable NX items, is in a better state than GMS, is it excusable for the server’s quality to be so low??



This x 1000.

I enjoyed the game back in the day even when I didn't buy NX. Hell, I played before the cash shop was even out lol. Actually, I enjoyed the game more before the cash shop.

I enjoyed the game back in the day even when I didn't buy NX. Hell, I played before the cash shop was even out lol. Actually, I enjoyed the game more before the cash shop.

lol this reminds me of when players would hunt for certain sets and had to accessorize themselves to look unique. I remember having the red and green china sets haha. Among many other different cool "outfits" made up of regular equips.... and then the Cash shop came..

I enjoyed the game back in the day even when I didn't buy NX. Hell, I played before the cash shop was even out lol. Actually, I enjoyed the game more before the cash shop.

That's one of the points.
Once upon a time there was no cash shop, or the cash shop was decorative only. Everybody was on the same footing so there was no pressure to buy NX.
With time, cash shop started giving more advantages.
When I started playing, about 3 years ago, cash shop already had some advantages, but I was able to maintain a shop permit and a looting pet by MTSing etc's and other drops. Had no need for more NX than that, and was even able to afford a wedding after a while.

Once MTS tax got raised, people stopped buying quest etc's and clean equips to scroll. 210 nx is one thing, 617 is quite another. And once cubes hit cash shop...

Of course you can say, "Don't be a damage whore and don't cube all your gear to perfection", but it's not just the bosses that are unbeatable without potential. If you don't have some minimum % mainstat and expensively scrolled items, you won't be pulling your weight at Monster Park, Party Quests, or LHC.
You can play that way. I have old friends in my guild that have no % gear beyond the occasional found or fused 3%, scrolled with 60's. The stronger people help them and don't mind their basically tagging along at PQ's and such, but they don't really enjoy "leeching".

I guess you could call it exploiting for the serious players that don't hesitate to put big money in the game. All the other players (which is like 75% or more maybe), not really. It all comes down to temptation and giving in to it. You just need some relativation skills, or moderation, to keep the NX spending to a minimum. And there's ways to work around NX like buying cubed items, or the MTS.

I'm with DrRusty. The problem with Nexon is not in the NX.

-_-" Do you guys understand that even if you don't spend a dime in this game your actually paying? Do you think that if you took everyone but the "the serious players" those "serious players" would spend as much money as they do right now? Also stop with the MTS, that money doesn't come from fairy land of NX other people dish out that money, so look at it as if you go chop down a tree and then make a chair and sell it to some big furniture shop and while it buys the chair from you at $20 they sell it for $60 plus those $20 isn't money you can spend anywhere you have to use it on one of the shops the big furniture shop owns, so in no way you can say that they don't exploit us because you can get NX with the MTS.

I enjoyed the game back in the day even when I didn't buy NX. Hell, I played before the cash shop was even out lol. Actually, I enjoyed the game more before the cash shop.

You enjoyed the game more overall, you didn't enjoy looting with the Z key or going to ch 1 Perion and spamming for hours "S>...." than what you would today. The game was more enjoyable before because it was a new experience for most of us, because the playerbase was smaller and therefore more united, NX didn't give players much of an advantage over regular players sp everyone was at the same level and was capable of reaching the same goals. (besides there being way less glitches, hackers and the economy was in an inmense better state). As time passed by, NX started giving more advantages which nowadays are too big to be ignored and put aside. I've been saying for a while now, GMS' ecnomy is so bad that a new player has no way to success in this game without at least a bit of NX.

It's a bit circular don't you think? You need to have NX to even get decent gear or you can use the MTS! But what can you sell in the MTS to get you enough NX to cube any decent item? A well -scrolled item of course! What do you need for a well-scrolled item? Lots of Mesos and a lot of luck. In the end, you can't get any decent amount of NX with out having a decent amount of free time, ridiculous luck, and actual starting funds of upwards to 10+ million, which, if you don't use NX, could take you anywhere from 1 day to 1 month to make. I can make 10 mil in 10 days by soloing Pap 2 times per day, but that's still only netted me 140 mil total. Or you can be NXJoe over here and sell your NX in the form of cubes and make like 500 mill. same amount of work, not equal profits. In this game, the rich get richer and the poor might get rich if they're lucky. At least there's a chance to move up in society, like there's the chance to get that rare item that no one has because it's gach exclusive. Kinda saddened by the blown over "NX users will never have a significant advantage over non-NX users". Those were the days...

buying cubed items

That's a good one. It cost over 1 bil mesos for a nice one. And when 1 bil is almost impossible to get without nx or A LOT of time. Thats not an acceptable solution.

Well you can always not play if you don't enjoy it.

No pomegranate.
Now how does that negate that they are attempting to exploit their player base?

You really need to stop using that cop-out because it has nothing to do with the actual discussion that's being had.

So lets assume nexon is exploiting us all? Who else is?

WoW? - I know people hate that this is brought up but it is perhaps the most well known MMO. They use the subscription system to exploit us. Clever devils.

That's nonsensical. They charge you for a service, and everyone who pays for the service is equal.
People who chose not to pay aren't at any disadvantage.

Okay what next? The Car is dirty and someone offers to clean it. OMG EXPLOIT! He/She is using the fact that the car is dirty to gain money.
You need food to survive? The supermarket offers to give us food for a money? are they exploiting our hunger?

I could go on all day. Exploit isnt the word to describe this. But trying to get that accross is kinda impossible. lol

You could go on all day, but I'd imagine every metaphor would be worst than the last so I pray you don't.

For your metaphors to be appropriate, Nexon would have to be throwing crap on our car or throwing us in a cage to starve unless we pay them.

I only used the word exploit because it was used in the title. I still don't agree with the dropping of the word in the first place, much less to invalidate what i've said through a definition argument.

Yes, those were words you just typed.

And there's ways to work around NX like... ...the MTS.

I'm with DrRusty. The problem with Nexon is not in the NX.

Hell yes! You don't need NX! Just get NX!
NX is not the problem!

That's one of the points.
Once upon a time there was no cash shop, or the cash shop was decorative only. Everybody was on the same footing so there was no pressure to buy NX.
With time, cash shop started giving more advantages.

I actually have no problem with NX giving players an in-game advantages. It was rather inevitable that it would turn that way.
As you implied, the issue is with how much of an advantage NX gives.

For example, though previously decried by some, 2x/1.5x Exp Cards were the perfect way to entice people to buy NX without screwing over those who don't.

WoW and MS are two completely different types of games, like.. not even close to being comparable.

you could, however, compare it to something like la tale, which was essentially a much better game from what i remember of it (only played it for about a month a couple years ago).