How many Black Knights (Black Wings Generals) are there really?

Did I break up the "HEY GUIZE! LISTEN TO MY FANFIC!" parade?
I'd apologize if I gave a pomegranate.

All you ever seek to do is ruin someone's fun. That's all I know. It's why that announcement that Rick made was targetted at you.


I'm interested in facts.

When you know no facts, you guess. That's the whole part of storytelling; when you don't know what'll occur, you try to envision what you think might occur, and when you find out the FACTS, then you get surprised, saying "Oh I totally didn't expect this to happen!". But that's not you - only story you care about is Masteria.

lulzwut? When have I ever said or implied either of those things?

Your attitude towards me and this thread says it all.


lulzwut? I don't even know what you're talking about anymore.

My responses have nothing to do with personal ego; they're a verbalization of my low tolerance for bullpomegranate.

What you declare bullcrap may not be what I declare bullcrap.

You vastly overevaluate your affect on my mood. Nothing you've said has or possibly could piss me off.

Now how about you stay on topic instead of making yourself look like a child who doesn't like being corrected?

Gladly. I'll return to speculating and guessing on a story where I don't know all the details.

But storyline is what makes MapleStory a real "STORY". After all, if we went back to the days of post-Beta Official release, where everything was grind central, I'dve quit long ago.

Now that Maple is developing a story, you can bet your ass I'm gonna speculate and wonder about it, like someone reading a giant book series, wondering what'll come next.

This is the whole point of what cliffhangers are supposed to do; when you don't know enough about the story, you speculate what might happen.

EDIT - @Viaje How do we know Freed wasn't struggling with that egg during the time he carried it? He could've died on the spot when he got back to Afrien (most likely due to exhaustion).

And what makes it have anything to do with "MAPLE"?
Don't try to make sense of a nonsensical title.

Again, there is a difference between speculating and just plain making pomegranate up. When you do the latter, you don't get to advertise it as fact.

You said nothing new about Freud while simultaneously failing to address how a mortally wounded person could make such a trip.

After you save Afrien, he speaks of the past. You get teleported to the moment where the final battle was about to be fought. And Afrien speaks of what happened later. I believe it's the level 70 quest. But he does say it.

I'll have to reread that then. Honestly, I do have a habit of mixing up Afrien and Freud, so I have trouble remembering who did what.

And what makes it have anything to do with "MAPLE"?
Don't try to make sense of a nonsensical title.

If I could edit the title, I would. But that's now impossible to do, since I've no power to edit thread titles. And nor do you.

Again, there is a difference between speculating and just plain making pomegranate up. When you do the latter, you don't get to advertise it as fact.

Where did I advertise this crap as fact? Tell me where I advertised this as fact? I said in many parts of my post that I wasn't sure on some details? And for the record, I prefer to have an imaginative mind; it breeds creativity, something that you seem to lack.

You said nothing new about Freud while simultaneously failing to address how a mortally wounded person could make such a trip.

For a moment there, you got Freud mixed up with Afrien. Afrien's the Dragon, Freud's the Wizard here.

All you ever seek to do is ruin someone's fun. That's all I know. It's why that announcement that Rick made was targetted at you.

I have no idea what the pineapple you're talking about.

When you know no facts, you guess. That's the whole part of storytelling; when you don't know what'll occur, you try to envision what you think might occur, and when you find out the FACTS, then you get surprised, saying "Oh I totally didn't expect this to happen!". But that's not you - only story you care about is Masteria.

Or you wait.

Once again, you manage to confuse me as to where you're getting these "facts" about me. I don't really give a shitabout Masteria's story.

Your attitude towards me and this thread says it all.

My 'attitude' screams "DEATH TO NEXON! LONG LIVE BLIZZARD!"?
That's so stupid that I can barely comprehend

What you declare bullcrap may not be what I declare bullcrap.

Clearly, since you just make pomegranate up or parrot what other people have made up and state it as fact.
Still waiting to have that Reverse/Pink Bean/HT Pendant nonsense explained.

Gladly. I'll return to speculating and guessing on a story where I don't know all the details.

And I'll continue pointing out where you're making pomegranate up with no factual basis.

If I could edit the title, I would. But that's now impossible to do, since I've no power to edit thread titles. And nor do you.

Relevance?

Where did I advertise this crap as fact? Tell me where I advertised this as fact? I said in many parts of my post that I wasn't sure on some details? And for the record, I prefer to have an imaginative mind; it breeds creativity, something that you seem to lack.

Yes, in parts you made disclaimers that you weren't sure, but the majority of your nonsense has been posted with no such disclaimer. In other words, it was presented as fact.

Something tells me I should just start banning Viaje after every initial post he makes, because he's undoubtedly going to turn the thread in to a pomegranatestorm anyway. You guys keep going with your fun and speculation.

Ehm, guys, please stop fighting, and start becoming this an awful flame war. Viaje, you are more of a facts person, while Heart is stating what he is thinking. (Don't know if this is against rules?). So, I would recommend Viaje let the wanderers wander, while the rest just looks at their facts.

On topic: Well, The Black Witch is not dead. She teleports away. Who would belive she died? I mean, she is way too awesome of a boss to be dead. (LOL).

So, Orca, Demon Slayer, Von Leon, Hiver ,Black Witch, Akyrum, and the two others hinted. I think we have all of them. No?

I have no idea what the pineapple you're talking about.


Or you wait.

Once again, you manage to confuse me as to where you're getting these "facts" about me. I don't really give a pomegranateabout Masteria's story.


My 'attitude' screams "DEATH TO NEXON! LONG LIVE BLIZZARD!"?
That's so stupid that I can barely comprehend


Clearly, since you just make pomegranate up or parrot what other people have made up and state it as fact.
Still waiting to have that Reverse/Pink Bean/HT Pendant nonsense explained.


And I'll continue pointing out where you're making pomegranate up with no factual basis.


Relevance?


Yes, in parts you made disclaimers that you weren't sure, but the majority of your nonsense has been posted with no such disclaimer. In other words, it was presented as fact.

I'm not going to continue this argument any further. It seems like you're using it as an excuse to "win" this debate over me creating fiction, and me stating fact. Maybe I should've been clearer.

And about the part saying "that's not you" I was reflecting the difference in our personalities - you tend to wait, I tend to guess where a story might lead. My mind's imaginative, yours is logical.

If all the posts I make are just going to be flame-baited by you, I'd rather one of us get the hell off this forum. And it sure isn't going to be me.


EDIT - @Eli - Hiver serves under Orca. And with your list, it makes eight. Since there are seven chairs, you remove Hiver from the list and it makes seven. So that'd be all of them.

Every version thus far is referring to him as the penultimate evil badguy, since Naricain does not exist in any other version save ours, and technically, Masteria's somewhat dead.
I've never seen him referred to as penultimate. You do know what penultimate means, right? It's second-to-last. He's always the biggest badguy.

Therein lies the catch. In every single instance, he's male. And in a prior post, I've accepted the fact that Aran is male canonically. Sorry, I didn't see that. It took me a while to write out that little novel.

True, but technically, if Orca's objective was to kill, then this messes up the whole concept of the fight. And I explicitly stated that if it was a "WAR", which your reaction assumed I meant fights in general. In a war, when you fight, sometimes you fight to protect, other times you fight to kill. Mercedes was fighting to protect; Orca was fighting to kill. I consider it a win for Mercedes in what she was doing, but a draw on the "kill" part, since Mercedes could've killed Orca if she truly wanted to. But she let Orca escape; thus it's a draw. And again, both of their fight objectives conflict.
I'm fairly certain that Orca escaped without Mercedes letting her. A lot of the time, you can defeat someone and they can manage to escape, and there's nothing you can do about it. Orca could have escaped into somewhere that only she knew about, or could have simply vanished. And what viaje says is true, if we go by what you're saying, then only a very small portion of wars have been "won" (and some have been "won" by the side that most people would consider to have lost).
I didn't know whether either of those names were true. Thanks for confirming they were not. But it still doesn't change the fact that a Thief and Pirate legend exists.
...did I say that they didn't?
True. But light is very hard to turn to darkness. Where there is light there is also darkness. Mikhail's loyalty was most likely the very flaw that led him to his downfall.
All of the Knights have to be very loyal, and they all went along with Empress Cygnus to the world tree (in the door to the future, which was actually revealed to be a dream).
Then why does Orca have so much bunny apparel? Why are a majority of Orca's squadron rabbit anthromorphs? Akyrum's legion is serpent based, as he wields serpent based powers, so it only makes sense for him to have snake anthromorphs. Eleanor's squad uses what's around them (i.e. Francis controlling the common monsters; Baroq disguising as Maple NPCs). It would make sense for each "branch" of the Black Wings to have a theme to them - hence why Von Leon's got a more medieval theme to his troops.
Let's see where all the Bunny-related monsters are in maple world that aren't related to a specific job...
Ludibrium- 1
Korean Folk Town- 1
Ariant- 2
Chryse- 2
And when we count monsters that are job-related:
Edelstein- 3
Ludibrium- 1
Korean Folk Town- 1
Ariant- 2
Chryse- 2
Yup. I thought so. It's not about Orca, it's about Edelstein in general, specifically that the place is controlled by black wings (not specifically General Orca, whom I would think we would have heard mentioned in the resistance storyline), and the Black Wings use rabbits as their foot soldiers. Each squad member may have a certain affinity, but that places no control over where they're from. If what you say is true, where would you have Akyrum be from? That place... with all the snakes... that doesn't exist...?

So, well, let me get this straight. The Black Mage and his underlings likes bunnies? This is by far the most interesting theory I have heard of.

So, well, let me get this straight. The Black Mage and his underlings likes bunnies? This is by far the most interesting theory I have heard of.

I'm not really seeing another reason why half the black wings in edesltein are rabbits.

I've never seen him referred to as penultimate. You do know what penultimate means, right? It's second-to-last. He's always the biggest badguy.

I had a vocabulary flop there. My apologies. Still doesn't change the fact that Asmodius fits his status as the ultimate evil of MapleStory. Maybe Morpheus might fit better, but that'd be copying Matrix. And I sure as heck don't want another Voldemort clone.

Sorry, I didn't see that. It took me a while to write out that little novel.

We all have our flops.

I'm fairly certain that Orca escaped without Mercedes letting her. A lot of the time, you can defeat someone and they can manage to escape, and there's nothing you can do about it. Orca could have escaped into somewhere that only she knew about, or could have simply vanished. And what viaje says is true, if we go by what you're saying, then only a very small portion of wars have been "won" (and some have been "won" by the side that most people would consider to have lost).

In battle, there is a defender and an attacker role. The way that the Mercedes VS Orca battle was portrayed skews the roles in that fight. Mercedes was invading Orca's room to get the child back, and Orca was protecting her catch; at the same time, Orca was trying to kill Mercedes over a grudge; Mercedes wanted to make sure Orca didn't kill the child. Thus, it's a role paradox.

...did I say that they didn't?

I assumed you were implying it.

All of the Knights have to be very loyal, and they all went along with Empress Cygnus to the world tree (in the door to the future, which was actually revealed to be a dream).

True, but let's say for example that Cygnus had to pick her most loyal knight to sit at the Alliance meeting - if Mikhail was picked for his loyalty and experience, that makes him as important, if not more so, than Nineheart being there (especially with Nineheart being Lilin's brother).

Let's see where all the Bunny-related monsters are in maple world that aren't related to a specific job...
Ludibrium- 1
Korean Folk Town- 1
Ariant- 2
Chryse- 2
And when we count monsters that are job-related:
Edelstein- 3
Ludibrium- 1
Korean Folk Town- 1
Ariant- 2
Chryse- 2
Yup. I thought so. It's not about Orca, it's about Edelstein in general, specifically that the place is controlled by black wings (not specifically General Orca, whom I would think we would have heard mentioned in the resistance storyline), and the Black Wings use rabbits as their foot soldiers. Each squad member may have a certain affinity, but that places no control over where they're from. If what you say is true, where would you have Akyrum be from? That place... with all the snakes... that doesn't exist...?

I was using that as a speculation root for Orca's origins, and how she came to join the Black Wings. She had to have had a reason - same with Asmodius wanting to attain immortality. In most stories, the antagonist usually has a motive that drives them towards their ultimate goal. If there was something about the Maple World he didn't like, no matter how miniscule, that creates a motive. I was speculating what Orca's interests could've been before she was a Black Wing, and where she might've come from during the Pre-Black Wings era.

Something tells me I should just start banning Viaje after every initial post he makes, because he's undoubtedly going to turn the thread in to a pomegranatestorm anyway. You guys keep going with your fun and speculation.

I <3 you. :'D

But on a side note. This thread is super-interesting, but for me, the fact that you named the Black Mage makes it hard to take seriously. XD Respect to your opinion, as always.

On topic: Where exactly is Sue mentioned in the game? Her name is funny. They should name someone else Mary for the heck of it.

I <3 you. :'D

But on a side note. This thread is super-interesting, but for me, the fact that you named the Black Mage makes it hard to take seriously. XD Respect to your opinion, as always.

On topic: Where exactly is Sue mentioned in the game? Her name is funny. They should name someone else Mary for the heck of it.

I named the Black Mage because he had to have been named "something" before he became "The Black Mage". I just settled on that because I was out of original names. Valfar for Demon Slayer though... if he's male, it kinda fits.

It kinda peeves me why Nexon hasn't written a novel about Maple yet; or even better - redo the Maple anime. The one we first had was before the Black Mage/Aran/Evan/Heroes and stuff were all introduced, and it would help to sort of "officiate" some kind of canon lore to the game.

Not to mention, it could be used as a gigantic advertisement tool.

[Quote=Corazon]I had a vocabulary flop there. My apologies. Still doesn't change the fact that Asmodius fits his status as the ultimate evil of MapleStory. Maybe Morpheus might fit better, but that'd be copying Matrix. And I sure as heck don't want another Voldemort clone. Asmodeus (or Asmodius) is the 32nd most powerful demon in the Goetia. Morpheus is Sleep, you're getting weaker. Try something like Erebus, the Greek god of darkness and shadows. Also, I instantly thought of this:

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;Tx1XIm6q4r4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx1XIm6q4r4[/video]

In battle, there is a defender and an attacker role. The way that the Mercedes VS Orca battle was portrayed skews the roles in that fight. Mercedes was invading Orca's room to get the child back, and Orca was protecting her catch; at the same time, Orca was trying to kill Mercedes over a grudge; Mercedes wanted to make sure Orca didn't kill the child. Thus, it's a role paradox.
In war, those roles change constantly. One second, you're marching on Moscow, the next, the Russians are marching on Berlin. I also don't really see how the roles are relevant.

I assumed you were implying it.
:f6: If I did, it was completely unintentional. The 5 heroes are inevitable, and confirmed by Nexon. (of course, so was a masteria expansion, so there you have it)
True, but let's say for example that Cygnus had to pick her most loyal knight to sit at the Alliance meeting - if Mikhail was picked for his loyalty and experience, that makes him as important, if not more so, than Nineheart being there (especially with Nineheart being Lilin's brother).
So Oz and Hawkeye's absences make them next-door neighbors?

I was using that as a speculation root for Orca's origins, and how she came to join the Black Wings. She had to have had a reason - same with Asmodius wanting to attain immortality. In most stories, the antagonist usually has a motive that drives them towards their ultimate goal. If there was something about the Maple World he didn't like, no matter how miniscule, that creates a motive. I was speculating what Orca's interests could've been before she was a Black Wing, and where she might've come from during the Pre-Black Wings era.
Or she could just really really really like bunnies. They're goddamn cute.

 Spoiler

[Quote=Corazon]I had a vocabulary flop there. My apologies. Still doesn't change the fact that Asmodius fits his status as the ultimate evil of MapleStory. Maybe Morpheus might fit better, but that'd be copying Matrix. And I sure as heck don't want another Voldemort clone. Asmodeus (or Asmodius) is the 32nd most powerful demon in the Goetia. Morpheus is Sleep, you're getting weaker. Try something like Erebus, the Greek god of darkness and shadows. Also, I instantly thought of this:

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;Tx1XIm6q4r4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx1XIm6q4r4[/video]

No. Just.... no. I see Black Mage as more of a Sauron/Jafar type deal. Sure his story makes him look like Voldemort, but Voldy wields a wand - Black Mage can simply conjure magic with his hands, indicating mastery beyond the point of a mere Wizard. What he had to sacrifice to get this far is probably incomprehensible to a mere mind like ours.

In battle, there is a defender and an attacker role. The way that the Mercedes VS Orca battle was portrayed skews the roles in that fight. Mercedes was invading Orca's room to get the child back, and Orca was protecting her catch; at the same time, Orca was trying to kill Mercedes over a grudge; Mercedes wanted to make sure Orca didn't kill the child. Thus, it's a role paradox.
In war, those roles change constantly. One second, you're marching on Moscow, the next, the Russians are marching on Berlin. I also don't really see how the roles are relevant.

I give up on this. I can't really explain it myself either.

I assumed you were implying it.
:f6: If I did, it was completely unintentional. The 5 heroes are inevitable, and confirmed by Nexon. (of course, so was a masteria expansion, so there you have it)
That was when Nexon had Prose on his side, and Isaac was the faithful analyst of that arc. I do believe any Masteria additions will be tweaked by kMS, but we'll get the unedited versions. That is, assuming Nexon doesn't say "We don't care about Massteria"

True, but let's say for example that Cygnus had to pick her most loyal knight to sit at the Alliance meeting - if Mikhail was picked for his loyalty and experience, that makes him as important, if not more so, than Nineheart being there (especially with Nineheart being Lilin's brother).
So Oz and Hawkeye's absences make them next-door neighbors?

I haven't played that far through any Cygnus storylines. Most of what I get is through Youtube videos or browsing other lore posts here. This is probably because there's so little quest lore that's actually do-able without a serious grind that makes me not like to go past 45.


I was using that as a speculation root for Orca's origins, and how she came to join the Black Wings. She had to have had a reason - same with Asmodius wanting to attain immortality. In most stories, the antagonist usually has a motive that drives them towards their ultimate goal. If there was something about the Maple World he didn't like, no matter how miniscule, that creates a motive. I was speculating what Orca's interests could've been before she was a Black Wing, and where she might've come from during the Pre-Black Wings era.
Or she could just really really really like bunnies. They're goddamn cute.

 Spoiler

No. I am going to slaughter that killer rabbit. That's what I'm going to do.

No. Just.... no. I see Black Mage as more of a Sauron/Jafar type deal. Sure his story makes him look like Voldemort, but Voldy wields a wand - Black Mage can simply conjure magic with his hands, indicating mastery beyond the point of a mere Wizard. What he had to sacrifice to get this far is probably incomprehensible to a mere mind like ours.
Voldemort isn't much limited by his wand, he's essentially powered by pure evil, just like the Black Mage. The two are actually very similar in a lot of aspects.

That was when Nexon had Prose on his side, and Isaac was the faithful analyst of that arc. I do believe any Masteria additions will be tweaked by kMS, but we'll get the unedited versions. That is, assuming Nexon doesn't say "We don't care about Massteria"
I think they basically said that when they gave us CTF.

I haven't played that far through any Cygnus storylines. Most of what I get is through Youtube videos or browsing other lore posts here. This is probably because there's so little quest lore that's actually do-able without a serious grind that makes me not like to go past 45.
I was just getting that from the Maplers Unite pictures. It's Cygnus, Neinheart, Mikhal, Irena, and Eckhart.

No. I am going to slaughter that killer rabbit. That's what I'm going to do.
I laughed for like 5 minutes solid after I posted that picture, I kid you not.

Hiver exists in all storylines, save for the Thief and Pirate legends (whom from a source I hear are to be named Boralis and Krytus -

wasnt the Pirate Legend Kyrins Father Testonen, who left Kyrin to Athena Pierce to go fight the Black Mage? though i wouldnt know the sucessors name if the story was going to come out similar to Evans story compared to Freud

wasnt the Pirate Legend Kyrins Father Testonen, who left Kyrin to Athena Pierce to go fight the Black Mage? though i wouldnt know the sucessors name if the story was going to come out similar to Evans story compared to Freud

That was something I believe Nexon NA made up on the spot. I don't believe kMS used the same backstory.

So people are wondering about the whole black Mage and bunnies thing. Well I have a theory. I remember reading a post by someone joking that maybe the black mage is a bunny. Well I think that there is a land either above edelstien or below the minar forest that is like mu lung in that it is ruled by animals and not humans. In this case that animal would be rabbits. I think that the black Mage comes from this land and this was the first land that he conqured. I remember reading some thing posted on the ms website around the release of Evan that said the black Nate was once a good guy who wanted to rule because the rulers of his country were court.

Ever hear the saying you lose the battle but you can still win the war. Mercedes won this battle she let him escape because she wasn't out to kill him(at least not yet she was just trying to protect a child). If orca really wanted to kill her he wouldn't have held anything back as it became evident that getting your ass kicked within an inch of your life would warrant taking the kid gloves off.