"Tiger" Parenting.

You probably still won't agree with me, but that's fine because we're not from the same places [and everything that it entails].

Consider yourself surprised. I am inclined to agree with you. However it really depends on how you plan to teach things like behaviour and respect. If you yell at them when they do something wrong, they both respect you and behave out of fear. If you were in Canada I would sick child services on you to protect that child for verbal harassment they don't need. However, if you chose to teach them by example(your behaviour), and you help them learn lessons with patience and understanding, than they will come to respect you for admirable reasons. These are the kind of parents I respect. Fear is a weak tool used by only the weakest of people.

So I'm going to resolve this now. Tykian you believe that the parents should put all their faith in their child(ren) and let them grow up by themselves with minimal interference. The traditional Asian viewpoint is to educate and inculcate (and hence this thread on "Tiger" Parenting). The modern Asian culture is much more moderate than you think, but in many parts of China it's still very traditional. And again, modern Asian parents, having both cultural roots and Western influence and education (unbelivably important), are trying to find that middle ground. You are not wrong, but neither are you totally right; more accurately speaking, there is no right or wrong here.

Emphasis to the parts that aren't quite right. I believe that tiger parents and the like don't put ENOUGH faith in their kids. However, again, they need guidance. I'm going to reach to one of the tiger parents I knew for an example. In grade 3, at the tender age of 8, when we first had grades her mother would only make her breakfast if she was getting 90's+. Meaning she either had to get up super early to make her own food, or go hungry. Not a good way to teach a kid to work hard.

 Spoiler

I recognize you also don't agree with this, i'm getting to the point, promise

In my case, I would have told her that it is important to do her best in school, because it will make her adult life a lot easier by providing her more opportunities to get a good job or to chase her dreams. However, if she began to get 60's and 70's I would not begin punishing her. Instead I would sit her down and explain to her what those grades would mean for her. If she was comfortable with that choice, I would accept that and continue to support her. It is her life to live. My job is to guide her and explain things to her. Not to control her.

I do believe there is a right and wrong in this case, if only because I understand now how happy I was with my upbringing, and seeing how much happier I was than the children with "tiger-parents". I do realize though that great strides are being made in Asia, but there is still much work to be done. I guess what I'm getting at is, I do agree that it needs to be a middle ground, but I think Western Culture is a lot closer to the ideal as of yet.

Stop with your substance-less posts. All you have done is say "I disagree". You keep saying you see why she did it, so tell us why you think she did it, and why you think she is justified.

Hypocrite-much?

It all depends on culture. I will tell you now, though, western parenting is not "the right way". Being too soft or too hard is not a good thing. Tiger-parenting is not a style that is set in stone in which one example of it represents all. Giving your children too much freedom is usually bad, and giving too little is also.

I'm not going to explore this much, but all I want to say is that saying that Tiger Parents don't love their children is about as correct as me saying people don't like breathing oxygen. There might be some strange ones out there, but most parents love their children; regardless of how they parent or what their child thinks.

yeah man, them 6 year olds be crammin them formulae. not 8x4 or anything. and details are a tool to understand concepts, especially in math and science also lol at studying topographical processes in middleschool. With the exception of major global or national landmarks, that is unheard of. Long story short, devil clearly made up a stat, why are you trying to defend it?

I'm not defending the exact stat, I'm saying that the actual value is likely higher than most people would think. While realistically it might be significantly less than eighty percent, the sheer number of details that you do not retain might surprise you.

I don't remember most of the four-charactered phrases that we crammed into our heads constantly over the course of my primary school study, or the model Chinese sentences and templates that we were told to emulate in order to get good marks. That's not including the hordes of individual Chinese words that constantly elude memory. We also had health education and social studies, which most of us don't even remember taking, apart from the typical eat less fat and more vegetables thing. That's two whole non-examinable subjects. Not everyone remembers how to calculate the interior or exterior angles of a polygon by the time they're fifteen, the only refresher I remember having on those two formulae was when we were sixteen, because everyone was terrified that something they hadn't studied would come out for an O level question. We never really used the polygon formulae after primary six. And what about all the things that you don't even remember learning? Go look through your grade school papers for a bit, and see if you come across some of those. Admittedly, not all the examples I've given may apply to you, since different things have different degrees of importance to different people (depending on the subject combination students take later in Junior College) and especially since our schools might not even have the same syllabus. Granted, though, I'll be surprised if you don't find that you forgot more than you actually thought you did.

It all depends on culture. I will tell you now, though, western parenting is not "the right way". Being too soft or too hard is not a good thing. Tiger-parenting is not a style that is set in stone in which one example of it represents all. Giving your children too much freedom is usually bad, and giving too little is also.

I'm not going to explore this much, but all I want to say is that saying that Tiger Parents don't love their children is about as correct as me saying people don't like breathing oxygen. There might be some strange ones out there, but most parents love their children; regardless of how they parent or what their child thinks.

I think I understand they point you're trying to convey, but it's not really a good analogy, since you tend to get used to breathing oxygen and ignore it after you phase out of childhood. Unless you suffer a near-death experience involving suffocation or learn about the importance of breathing through science, it's unlikely that you'd appreciate breathing at all or even so much as give a thought about it. Not to mention that whether parents love their children or not is a separate issue from the treatment they give them. You don't exactly say that hippie parents who force-feed their children weed because they love them and want them to enjoy the wonder of life are right, do you?

Your ideal, not other people's ideal. Parenting is a very very personal thing - it's your child. I cannot force on you what your ideal is, and neither can you, because it [again] is subjected to the influences of the society, the culture and your own experience. Or most directly, your partner. I really really cannot stop repeating this: your happiness is not their happiness, even if your happiness would be agreed/accepted/a-whatever by the majority. One man's flesh is another man's poison. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. That is why I chose to remain neutral - conflicts come about because PoV clashes get too personal.

Ah so your example includes guidance and not a totally hands-free thing. Hmm fine - that's pretty much closer to what I'd do too actually [nevermind the details].

In your example, I'm going to turn it around a little. The child gets rewarded with not needing to wake up that early to prepare breakfast if she gets 90+. That is really, really, more like a reward than a necessity. Or wait... actually... could you define what is "waking up early"? 5am? 6am? 7am? 8am? Not that familiar with this side of the world... I have friends who wake up at 4.30am just to get from Johor Bahru to [my] school - there's very little the parents can do for them. Make their own breakfast, travel on their own blah blah... I'd call that independence. Fine the age does make a difference - age of 8 is really quite tender, but not that young either [to me]. But if they can take their own meal into their own hands, isn't that also a step towards independence and maturity? Right now as I'm typing this, I have absolutely no idea if you'd agree on this, but back in SG this would be given a good nod AND a shake of the head - half would say wow the child is able to stand on her own feet and prepare her own meals, half would say oh dear such a poor thing for the child to have to prepare her own breakfast. Kind of LoL actually. There are always two sides to the argument, and at the end of the day it's between the parent(s) and the child.

What do I think? I don't want to disturb my parents and I want them to rest, so I do everything myself.

Also, I won't be very happy if people kicked down my door and told me off for not parenting correctly. [well that's obviously an exaggeration]

Hadriel

[I have friends who wake up at 4.30am just to get from Johor Bahru to [my] school - there's very little the parents can do for them.

I know people who have to get up earlier to travel from Malaysia to mine. I don't understand why they don't just apply for a school nearer to their homes.

I know people who have to get up earlier to travel from Malaysia to mine. I don't understand why they don't just apply for a school nearer to their homes.

It's about the dignity, or actually pride, of having to study in a more "prestigious" or "well-known" school. It is the fact that people care more about appearances or status in the world now. It still doesn't make sense that they would be willing to use up extra money, in which could be used to fund for more appropriate uses, but used on little things like "status". Though this isn't always true, considering that some of the schools that are "prestigious", justify themselves with the appropriate, or good education system. Though seeing the education here in my country, I doubt that it is the case, as education is main-streamed in Elementary and High School.

Thing is, parents, especially Asian parents, want to show off their kids as "trophies". It has, and always been.

Depends on the cultural context. Essentially I've been through it, so I know what it's like and what it does.

Depending on the situation it may be very effective, or it may be aggravatory. It's not all bad. A little like my country's governance.

Hadriel

all singaporean kids face it, be it chinese, malay or indian, when they angry they whoop ur ass.

honestly, 'tiger' parenting as you would call it has never worked in this era.. with the internet, media and such, these kind of parenting only brings out the rebel in the child.
i have friend who does not have strict parents and look, shes managed well, shes not going out having wild parties getting drunk or stuff like that. she knows her limit and is actually thankful for her parents for that.
on the other hand, a friend whos got some serious ass-whooping is now the most rebelious, even if he knows hes got to face his parents after that.

depends on how strict the parents actually are. even if they beat you up, if they go and talk to you after, it wouldnt be so bad i guess? as for me, im a rebel, cant deny that.. but i know my limits. no smoking, no drinking or w/s/e.

Not all. And, don't overgeneralise.

The usual stereotype is that good/prestigeous schools are better than normal/neighbourhood schools. Answer in SG is: academically generally yes in terms of results produced, otherwise not necessarily. [good school implies prestige, just give it a few years].

Hadriel

It's about the dignity, or actually pride, of having to study in a more "prestigious" or "well-known" school. It is the fact that people care more about appearances or status in the world now. It still doesn't make sense that they would be willing to use up extra money, in which could be used to fund for more appropriate uses, but used on little things like "status". Though this isn't always true, considering that some of the schools that are "prestigious", justify themselves with the appropriate, or good education system. Though seeing the education here in my country, I doubt that it is the case, as education is main-streamed in Elementary and High School.

Thing is, parents, especially Asian parents, want to show off their kids as "trophies". It has, and always been.

Well, the body needs to get enough shut-eye. Trophy or not it's ridiculously unhealthy to go on for long periods of time without enough sleep.

Considering the the number of school activities, make-up classes, and amount of homework and studying that needs to be dealt with they're likely getting very little.

What's main-streaming?

It is, unfortunately, a rather distasteful truth that applies for a significant portion of the asian community [in SG and MY].

Hadriel

Well, the body needs to get enough shut-eye. Trophy or not it's ridiculously unhealthy to go on for long periods of time without enough sleep.

Considering the the number of school activities, make-up classes, and amount of homework and studying that needs to be dealt with they're likely getting very little.

What's main-streaming?

Main-streamed, just saying that education is the same, in any school. Not counting the international schools of course.

all singaporean kids face it, be it chinese, malay or indian, when they angry they whoop ur ass.

honestly, 'tiger' parenting as you would call it has never worked in this era.. with the internet, media and such, these kind of parenting only brings out the rebel in the child.
i have friend who does not have strict parents and look, shes managed well, shes not going out having wild parties getting drunk or stuff like that. she knows her limit and is actually thankful for her parents for that.
on the other hand, a friend whos got some serious ass-whooping is now the most rebelious, even if he knows hes got to face his parents after that.

depends on how strict the parents actually are. even if they beat you up, if they go and talk to you after, it wouldnt be so bad i guess? as for me, im a rebel, cant deny that.. but i know my limits. no smoking, no drinking or w/s/e.

Here's where I disagree. Tiger parents tend to be very pride oriented as has been mentioned many times in this thread. They're not guna admit even to a child's face for an outburst that should've been handled better differently. They'll only end up coming to u and telling u this happened because u deserved it. lol Example: link



What bothers me about this to no end, is that because a parents parenting skills is almost like a first-hand experience guideline for their kids, this whole tiger parenting cycle gets passed down. For that reason, I actually have trouble deciding if I want kids of my own or not. You won't always recognize what things you couldve done differently to make a better outcome till the damage has been done. The biggest example to this is temperament. Tiger parents are not patient people and do NOT have very good tempers.

I hate it, because it makes me look-down at my own father, I can get along with my mom, I just never have anything to talk about with my dad. They're very strict, actually. Well, less strict than they used to be, actually, but they do expect a lot. Nowadays, they've become more like American-parents, since I get average grades and they don't really flip out anymore. They got used to the disappointment (lol..?). But I never talk to my dad, unless he wants me to buy something, or get something. I could have been closer to my own parents, but that never happened because they were never home, and when they were, I had nothing to talk about. Sums up all of my childhood.

Comparing my parents to some Chinese parents I might know though, some people are worse than my own parents..

The usual counter-argument would be that the child(ren), having experienced "Tiger" parenting, will make sure that they do the opposite, and then let their child(ren).

Hadriel

This thread is bizarre. The people from the outside who generally think it is in the best interest of the child that they not undergo such treatment are up in arms yet the ones who have actually lived with this sort of parenting are defending it? It feels almost like I'm reading a case study on Stockholm Syndrome.

Rick is right in that the ends do not justify the means no matter how well intentioned a parent may be. You cannot force someone to do something they do not wish to do -- that is inhumane. This seems to be another case where people suggest that because something is ingrained in a culture it should be accepted, but as has been argued in several other more inflammatory threads, that's simply not true.

Human sacrifices to gods? Okay! It's part of their culture that isn't intended for us. We have no right to state whether human sacrifices to gods are wrong.
Honor killing? Okay! It's part of their culture that isn't intended for us. We have no right to state whether honor killing is wrong.

Tolerance doesn't necessarily mean acceptance.

At any rate, there isn't much we can do but we certainly shouldn't stand by when we do see things like this just because it is a part of their culture. Most of these children grow up fine in the traditional sense (successful in their jobs) but they're all lacking in personality. Sorry for using you as an example, Will, but you fit the mold pretty well: you are a generally humourless guy who strives only for success, and that's how you've been brought up. Watching you grow over the last few years has actually been difficult because it's like watching the life getting sucked out of someone. It's almost as if your spirit is gone, and I can't help but feel like that is a result of the way you've been raised; I can say that with a general understanding of how things in your household go via your complaints in the past.

I see it in most of the Asian members here. I don't criticize because in spite of some sense of dysfunction they are all typically okay people. But there always seems to be something lacking.

All of this said, I take issue with the way most of North America raises their children, too. Not enough discipline, understanding or attention from their parents. Parenting is a difficult task.

This thread is bizarre. The people from the outside who generally think it is in the best interest of the child that they not undergo such treatment are up in arms yet the ones who have actually lived with this sort of parenting are defending it? It feels almost like I'm reading a case study on Stockholm Syndrome.

Rick is right in that the ends do not justify the means no matter how well intentioned a parent may be. You cannot force someone to do something they do not wish to do -- that is inhumane. This seems to be another case where people suggest that because something is ingrained in a culture it should be accepted, but as has been argued in several other more inflammatory threads, that's simply not true.



At any rate, there isn't much we can do but we certainly shouldn't stand by when we do see things like this just because it is a part of their culture. Most of these children grow up fine in the traditional sense (successful in their jobs) but they're all lacking in personality. Sorry for using you as an example, Will, but you fit the mold pretty well: you are a generally humourless guy who strives only for success, and that's how you've been brought up. Watching you grow over the last few years has actually been difficult because it's like watching the life getting sucked out of someone. It's almost as if your spirit is gone, and I can't help but feel like that is a result of the way you've been raised; I can say that with a general understanding of how things in your household go via your complaints in the past.

I see it in most of the Asian members here. I don't criticize because in spite of some sense of dysfunction they are all typically okay people. But there always seems to be something lacking.

All of this said, I take issue with the way most of North America raises their children, too. Not enough discipline, understanding or attention from their parents. Parenting is a difficult task.

Am I humorless? :[

I see it in most of the Asian members here. I don't criticize because in spite of some sense of dysfunction they are all typically okay people. But there always seems to be something lacking.

Reading that made me frown. Thanks, Sarah! Even IF I'm white-washed, that was like.. ; ~; M-m-m-m-mean!

Sarah... would you define "dysfunction" for me...?

And I'm in the middle, so I would eventually end up sort of getting bashed by both sides.

Hadriel

Sarah... would you define "dysfunction" for me...?

And I'm in the middle, so I would eventually end up sort of getting bashed by both sides.

Hadriel

The lacking spirit that I mentioned prior. There's a sort of brokenness to them.