So how does TT's Armor Reduction Property Work?

Is it additive or multiplicative? Either way, it doesn't seem to really make much sense to me. Let's take a look here:



Provided my sucky damage range: 18691
And provided I have max TT: 250%
And provided that critical hits max at 150% for thieves (Crit Mastery only raises minimum crit damage)

18691 * 2.5 * 1.5 = 70091

These monsters have a PDRate of 5% so I should have maxed 66586 a star on them barring no w.def property from TT30.

If TT30's -15% trait is multiplicative, the PDRate should be 4.25, making the max star 67112.

If TT30's -15% trait is additive, the PDRate should be -10%, making the max star 77100.

Now, I've seen TT30 for me hit as high as 75k with that damage range (my range hasn't changed at all the past few levels since I'm saving AP for HP washing) but never 76-77k. My only guess is that I'm unlucky and never saw it or that Maple is boring enough to have caught me off guard at times.

So does this mean the PDRate reduction is additive and can make PDRate go into the negative? If so, that's pretty wow... But once again, I never saw it reach 76k-77k so I can't say for sure.

What are your thoughts/comments?

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This is my supposed hypothesis on how the formula works:

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php...post659790

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=38608

You didn't answer her question, I told her to test it on something that she doesn't miss on, and she also has damage penalty on it too, which brings more pondering to the wondering.

Monsters I 100% hit (aka my level or lower) get hit by the same value. It's still 75k the highest I've seen and yet to see a 76-77k. This leads me to wonder if level difference damage penalty is tied to the PDRate part of the calculation prior to reducing the damage (if it's done at all) or if Triple Throw's weapon defense ignore aspect negates it altogether.

EDIT: Confirmed seeing 76k on a monster 2 levels ahead of me... Does level difference damage reduction not exist anymore?

So did you figure this out at all? Cause I have 15% Ignore PDR on my claw now and I can't seem to find how TT's ignore and my claw's ignore stack together. If PDR goes into the negative then my dmg should shoot through the roof on normal enemies, but it doesn't.

I don't have that bonus on my claw, but I have a friend who's a bowmaster with a VIP Bow and 15% defense ignore. According to him, the bonus on that is multiplicative, meaning it'll be applied before the additive effects. If in that case, it's 15% and the enemy's PDRate is 5%, then you should see the damage calculated as such.

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1. Calculate the max damage using damage range.
DMG * 2.5 * 1.5

2. Apply the multiplicative 15% Claw Bonus reduction to the 5% PDRate, meaning it'll be 4.25%.

3. Subtract TT30's 15% armor reduction from 4.25%. This gives the enemy -10.75%.

4. Apply your damage.
(DMG * 2.5 * 1.5) * 1.1075

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That's my hypothesis anyway. And if it holds true, then having 15% Defense ignore doesn't really help much except for bossing since they have higher PDRates. It changes from 50% to 42.5%. From that point of view though, it may be more beneficial to go for 30% boss, which also stacks with Shadow Partner, making it even more helpful. So the answer your question, yes, it probably stacks, but it's not noticeable on training monsters. It'll be more noticeable for bosses, but there's a better potential bonus to be sought for.

Monsters I 100% hit (aka my level or lower) get hit by the same value. It's still 75k the highest I've seen and yet to see a 76-77k. This leads me to wonder if level difference damage penalty is tied to the PDRate part of the calculation prior to reducing the damage (if it's done at all) or if Triple Throw's weapon defense ignore aspect negates it altogether.

EDIT: Confirmed seeing 76k on a monster 2 levels ahead of me... Does level difference damage reduction not exist anymore?

AFAIK, it doesn't. Only PDR/MDR exist now.

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1. Calculate the max damage using damage range.
DMG * 2.5 * 1.5

2. Apply the multiplicative 15% Claw Bonus reduction to the 5% PDRate, meaning it'll be 4.25%.

3. Subtract 15% from 4.25%. This gives the enemy -10.75%.

4. Apply your damage.
(DMG * 2.5 * 1.5) * 1.1075

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Thanks for the info! I did some testing using this in my formula and it seems to work out perfectly. My formula says I can hit 64567 and I managed to throw this:

 Spoiler

Right after catching this SS I threw 64.8k, I believe, but I missed it. Now without the weapon's ignore I should only throw 55k, so I think ignore is definitely worth it if you get it with whatever else you want. I would like to do some dmg testing against a higher PDR later, like Zakum.

Against 40% PDR I should throw 50k, but with boss dmg it becomes 63k, a 13k increase, so I'm definitely not stopping 'til I get it. Without the ignore, I would still lose over 10k damage to any boss, Zakum or weaker, so I would like to get boss dmg + ignore if I can. Stuck on epic. =(

I just want to mention that it's not just a 13k increase with 30% boss damage either. It's actually a 14.95k damage increase per star since 30% boss stacks with Shadow Partner. This is because 30% boss damage is reapplied once more on each of your Shadow Partner hits, making it even more worthwhile. Just some food for thought.

Hmmm So the TT 15% and claw 15% become 30%? How is it with threaten? And with co its 16%.

So its 15+16+30=61?

What do you mean claw 15%? If you mean a 15% armor ignore on the claw, I believe that is multiplicative sadly.

Threaten is theorized to be additive, too, as provided with convincing evidence here. Otherwise, with Combat Orders, -16% armor reduction from TT32 and -30% armor reduction from Threaten would indeed reduce by a total of -46% PDRate.

What do you mean claw 15%? If you mean a 15% armor ignore on the claw, I believe that is multiplicative sadly.

Threaten is theorized to be additive, too, as provided with convincing evidence here. Otherwise, with Combat Orders, -16% armor reduction from TT32 and -30% armor reduction from Threaten would indeed reduce by a total of -46% PDRate.

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I borrowed my friend's paladin a few weeks back and used it in zak. But i dont remember the dmg i did. I'll test it again when the chance with someone's paladin. If it 46% on czak it would be 4% dmg reduction which is quite negligeable. My numbers should be very high on czak. I will try my best to test as soon as possible. Kinda busy with other stuff recently .

Thereathen Its multiplicative too. Unless it have a -/+ in the skill tooltip then its multiplicative, i should know i main a pally >.>.

And if you ask the Blast is Ignore 21% of the PDR, NOT 21% chance to ignore ALL PDR.

Woops, my bad. Totally misread that. Disregard what I said about Threaten being additive.

Ah k that makes more sense because i remember for previous experience in czak with a pally and my dmg didnt go up as high as it would if its additive. But yea if pallys 21% is additive, thats hella pro lol.

Ah k that makes more sense because i remember for previous experience in czak with a pally and my dmg didnt go up as high as it would if its additive. But yea if pallys 21% is additive, thats hella pro lol.

I never said that 21% was addictive >.>. Its multiplicative, Almost all related to PDR its Multiplicative.

LOL right right my bad.

Interesting, ignore all the theory work I've made in this thread. Looks like Triple Throw has its own damage formula and that the PDRate Ignore factor is still actually multiplicative. Coincidentally enough, the results are very closely in range of each other...