Fist / Dragon Strike vs Super Transform / Demolition

In your opinion, which pair of skills is more important to max first? And why?

Honestly, i hate transform. It limits when you can and can't be at your peak, which i don't really like.

In my opinion, fist and dragon strike is more important because they replace skills and still provide enough damage output to own whatever map you're on.

Demo looks too slow and overkilly for training(though fist kind of does too). And more than bossing you'll be training so I'd guess fist & DS

Fist and DS. Transform is really only used for bossing, while DS is possibly the strongest mob move in the gave, excluding ultimates.

personally i like the look of dragon strike and fist more than demo and super transform

also with stun mastery, you end up having no need for a transformed state really. It just looks cool. If i were to get to 4th, i would do fist/dragon strike first

lagg... 2x post. delete plox

Every level, I'm going to do +2 Fists and +1 wind Booster until Wind Booster is 11 or 12, then I'm going to do +2 Fists and +1 Dragon Strike until Fists is maxed, etc.

Fist until I can 100% one-hit kill whatever I'm training on(without criticals). Dragon strike to max, then super transform and demolition in a +2 +1 per level up fashion.

personally i like the look of dragon strike and fist more than demo and super transform

also with stun mastery, you end up having no need for a transformed state really. It just looks cool. If i were to get to 4th, i would do fist/dragon strike first

Except with Snatch you can stun mob then Demo them to activate Stun Mastery.....or use Shockwave if you have enough mobs piled up and stunned

I wouldn't know. I've never played a pirate before, let alone 4th job. I guess it really does depend on the skillbooks you get...

still sticking with my fist/dragon strike (I liked the name leviathan better, but it isn't leviathan looking =P)

Fist and DS. Transform is really only used for bossing, while DS is possibly the strongest mob move in the gave, excluding ultimates.

It's strong, but sure as hell isn't the fastest. ACB, pierce, and maybe even BoT outclass it.

Don't forget that Super Transform allows you to do Demolition AND 3rd job's Shockwave. Shockwave has almost the same power as Dragon Strike.

I think maxing Super Transform first has major advantages:
- Super Transform (2 mins) - Shockwave & Demolition
- Normal Transform (2 mins) - Shockwave
- Super Transform (2 mins) - Shockwave & Demolition
- 2 Minutes nothing (chat with friends? )

- Super Transform (2 mins) - Shockwave & Demolition
- Normal Transform (2 mins) - Shockwave
- Super Transform (2 mins) - Shockwave & Demolition
- 2 Minutes nothing (chat with friends? )

-- etc....

@ guy above me ^^^^

i think the cooldowns are linked? so you cant use them simultaneously?

@ guy above me ^^^^

I think the cooldowns are linked? so you cant use them simultaneously?

Nope, it are 2 different skills, with 2 different cooldowns:

- 3rd job Transform = 2 mins use - 4 normal (6 mins cooldown)
- 4th job Super Transform = 2 mins use - 2 mins normal (4 mins cooldown)

So you can link them with ST>T>ST>2 Minutes "Normal">ST>T>ST>2 Minutes "Normal">etc...

Nope, it are 2 different skills, with 2 different cooldowns:

- 3rd job Transform = 2 mins use - 4 normal (6 mins cooldown)
- 4th job Super Transform = 2 mins use - 2 mins normal (4 mins cooldown)

So you can link them with ST>T>ST>2 Minutes "Normal">ST>T>ST>2 Minutes "Normal">etc...

Are you sure? <_< I always thought Super Transform worked with Transform like Advanced Combo does with Combo. O_o

Are you sure? <_< I always thought Super Transform worked with Transform like Advanced Combo does with Combo. O_o

100% sure, it are 2 separate -active buff skills- (like haste), unlike Advanced Combo which is passive, like Advanced Mastery for Archers / DkK's.

So with a 6 Viper Party (oh noes not again! )
ST (2 minutes) - 2 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 4 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 6 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 8 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 10 mins total
NT (2 minutes) - 12 mins total
ST (2 minutes) - 14 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 16 mins total
NT (2 minutes) - 18 mins total
ST (2 minutes) - 20 mins total
-repeat-

It's possible to stay Tansformed / Super Transformed 100% of the time
16 minutes Super Transform > Demolition
4 minutes Normal Transform > Shockwave

100% sure, it are 2 separate -active buff skills- (like haste), unlike Advanced Combo which is passive, like Advanced Mastery for Archers / DkK's.

So with a 6 Viper Party (oh noes not again! )
ST (2 minutes) - 2 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 4 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 6 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 8 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 10 mins total
NT (2 minutes) - 12 mins total
ST (2 minutes) - 14 mins total
Countdown
ST (2 minutes) - 16 mins total
NT (2 minutes) - 18 mins total
ST (2 minutes) - 20 mins total
-repeat-

It's possible to stay Tansformed / Super Transformed 100% of the time
16 minutes Super Transform > Demolition
4 minutes Normal Transform > Shockwave

That makes zero sense to me, because Super Transform does essentially the same thing as Transform, but better. It even has a pre-req of 20 Transform. I believe they both operate on the same cooldown, but I'm going to wait for someone who actually has any idea what they're talking about to step in.

Even if I'm completely wrong, I'd like to use this post to tell you to shut up about the 6 Viper parties D: So unrealistic.

That makes zero sense to me, because Super Transform does essentially the same thing as Transform, but better. It even has a pre-req of 20 Transform. I believe they both operate on the same cooldown, but I'm going to wait for someone who actually has any idea what they're talking about to step in.

Even if I'm completely wrong, I'd like to use this post to tell you to shut up about the 6 Viper parties D: So unrealistic.

They dont operate on the same cooldown. Fiel himself said they are completely seperate skills

And why do you have to hate on him so much?

They dont operate on the same cooldown. Fiel himself said they are completely seperate skills

And why do you have to hate on him so much?

Because he's been talking about 6 Viper parties and infinite Transform for months, with no regard to how hard it is to get 6 HP-washed Vipers with max Super Transform and Time Leap in the same party, how hard it would be to get them to coordinate their STs and TLs perfectly, and how a 4 NL/BM/DrK party would probably outpower that anyway. And he still hasn't fixed his DPS thread so archers and DrKs still look underpowered. Other than that, I don't see how I'm hating on him at all. Just two things that bother me.

And my bad, so I was wrong.

Because he's been talking about 6 Viper parties and infinite Transform for months, with no regard to how hard it is to get 6 HP-washed Vipers with max Super Transform and Time Leap in the same party, how hard it would be to get them to coordinate their STs and TLs perfectly, and how a 4 NL/BM/DrK party would probably outpower that anyway. And he still hasn't fixed his DPS thread so archers and DrKs still look underpowered. Other than that, I don't see how I'm hating on him at all. Just two things that bother me.

And my bad, so I was wrong.

Id think having atleast 1 Viper added to the traditional Bossing party would help enough