We Don't Need No Theme Mafia - Game over, RED wins

Yes, it was Mira. There was no message last time.

Also, I'm just going to say, there's a high chance we're all interpreting the clue wrong.

You are acting as if the entire game depends on tonight's lynch. You seem like you are far too apprehensive about making any decision, so don't vote if that is how you feel. You continue to warn us about interpreting it wrong, yet don't tell us why or how. You can't say these things without an adequate explanation.

Yes, it was Mira. There was no message last time.

Also, I'm just going to say, there's a high chance we're all interpreting the clue wrong.

Yosh, it's a clue, it's vague and open to interpretation in any number of ways. what if your interpretations of the clue aren't right either, and what's to say that other people's interpretations of it aren't any more or less right or wrong?

Also, since BTA is lurking, I'm curious what he has to say about Daku's vote.

I am lurking a little, but do know that I always have like a billion tabs open, and this thread is one of them. So I might be "viewing the thread" when I haven't checked it in hours.

That being said, I don't really have much of an opinion towards it, because I have no idea why he chose to vote for me. I haven't voted yet because there's been no need to, but if I feel strongly enough about someone being mafia/innocent, I'll speak up. I haven't been that sure about anything yet, so I haven't.

Fair enough.

Yes, it was Mira. There was no message last time.

Also, I'm just going to say, there's a high chance we're all interpreting the clue wrong.

Yes, you've mentioned that. So here's me replying to your suggestions.

For your first suggestion, you don't want us jumping to conclusions, so I'll try my best not to.

For your second suggestion, you want us to judge based on reactions rather than the clue . . . which would be fine except we have a rather limited pool of people who are interacting and reacting. It suffers from the same flaws as using the clue, mostly because there's a lack of knowledge on Day 1 and not everyone has even posted yet, or necessarily will, which is in itself a reaction, but regardless, seems less than helpful in determing a vote. If everyone had posted by now, and everyone was discussing it, well that might very well make it far more worthwhile to judge the reactions as a basis of voting, but for now, I would say our focus should be on using some logic to figure out CoB's killer. And the logical way to do so is to use the clue Ray provided us. It wouldn't be a clue if it didn't give us some sort of inkling as to who killed CoB after all.

Critical, can mean it's a critical role for the townies, or it's a critical role for the mafia. I get your point, but I'm not sure why you seem to think it'd be a townie rather than a killer. The clue is designed to help us catch the killer and lynch them so they stop killing townies . . . if it was about the townie being critical, what would be the point? It would be a massive advantage to the mafia that I don't think Ray would allow. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I just can't see how you can change the meaning to that without negating any messages we ever receive as being helpful. I will concede that if there's some sort of mafia ability user to misdirect or edit messages, that this could be a possibility, but again, I don't see them altering the entire message. At best they could alter a portion of it, which doesn't get us anywhere unless we knew which part they altered or added or whatever. Which we're not going to have yet, so why shouldn't we do our best with what we have? And I think Ray would have mentioned if that was a power or even a possible power for the mafia to have. Anyway, it's fine if there's a good reason not to vote for someone, or a good reason not to vote period, but at the moment, we have limited information and as such, we have to use it as best we can. If I'm wrong, which I agree there is a good chance, my theory has several other possibilities to it that may, with the 2nd clue's help, make sure we get it right the next time. Or it may discredit it altogether, but either way, we'lll have more info by Day 2 than we have today. That's the way the game goes.

As for your die theory, yes that's not bad, but you'd need a group for that to work, and you'd have to include five mafia and one townie in it. Not an impossible task, but difficult given you'd have to look for ways to tie in another two people to the clue. I suppose you could try to, but I don't think Ray would give us quite that many names to work with, and quite that much info to think about. It's in the category of possible, but cumbersome and hard to do. Which with clues, is the opposite of what you want. I'm not saying that I'm right this time, as there's a decent chance I got something wrong with some part of the clue, but I still can't agree with your suggestions, other than the jumping to conclusions one, and for that one, I think I did pretty good by stating it's all theory and that there's not only multiple possible answers to it, but that it may be all be wrong.

Edit: And with that response, I'm bushed, so I'm off to bed. If there's any more discussion, I'll reply to it later on today sometime.

Yes, you've mentioned that. So here's me replying to your suggestions.

For your first suggestion, you don't want us jumping to conclusions, so I'll try my best not to.

For your second suggestion, you want us to judge based on reactions rather than the clue . . . which would be fine except we have a rather limited pool of people who are interacting and reacting. It suffers from the same flaws as using the clue, mostly because there's a lack of knowledge on Day 1 and not everyone has even posted yet, or necessarily will, which is in itself a reaction, but regardless, seems less than helpful in determing a vote. If everyone had posted by now, and everyone was discussing it, well that might very well make it far more worthwhile to judge the reactions as a basis of voting, but for now, I would say our focus should be on using some logic to figure out CoB's killer. And the logical way to do so is to use the clue Ray provided us. It wouldn't be a clue if it didn't give us some sort of inkling as to who killed CoB after all.

Critical, can mean it's a critical role for the townies, or it's a critical role for the mafia. I get your point, but I'm not sure why you seem to think it'd be a townie rather than a killer. The clue is designed to help us catch the killer and lynch them so they stop killing townies . . . if it was about the townie being critical, what would be the point? It would be a massive advantage to the mafia that I don't think Ray would allow. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I just can't see how you can change the meaning to that without negating any messages we ever receive as being helpful. I will concede that if there's some sort of mafia ability user to misdirect or edit messages, that this could be a possibility, but again, I don't see them altering the entire message. At best they could alter a portion of it, which doesn't get us anywhere unless we knew which part they altered or added or whatever. Which we're not going to have yet, so why shouldn't we do our best with what we have? And I think Ray would have mentioned if that was a power or even a possible power for the mafia to have. Anyway, it's fine if there's a good reason not to vote for someone, or a good reason not to vote period, but at the moment, we have limited information and as such, we have to use it as best we can. If I'm wrong, which I agree there is a good chance, my theory has several other possibilities to it that may, with the 2nd clue's help, make sure we get it right the next time. Or it may discredit it altogether, but either way, we'lll have more info by Day 2 than we have today. That's the way the game goes.

As for your die theory, yes that's not bad, but you'd need a group for that to work, and you'd have to include five mafia and one townie in it. Not an impossible task, but difficult given you'd have to look for ways to tie in another two people to the clue. I suppose you could try to, but I don't think Ray would give us quite that many names to work with, and quite that much info to think about. It's in the category of possible, but cumbersome and hard to do. Which with clues, is the opposite of what you want. I'm not saying that I'm right this time, as there's a decent chance I got something wrong with some part of the clue, but I still can't agree with your suggestions, other than the jumping to conclusions one, and for that one, I think I did pretty good by stating it's all theory and that there's not only multiple possible answers to it, but that it may be all be wrong.

Replying to bolded points:
1. Thus the fatal flaw of Mason groups.
2. Nobody said the clue pointed to the killer, and even then CoB's killer.
3. Again, nobody ever said the clue pointed to the killer.
4. I doubt anyone's altering the messages. Out of all the games I've played, there are few roles that can do such, and usually these roles transform people into another role before they die so when they die they appear to be a different role. But, since that's not how this game is setup, I'm assuming there aren't any roles like that.
5. ...You do not need to tell me "how the game goes."
6. Could the die clue not be referring to Mason groups and 1 of the mason groups is safe from harm? I was thinking about that earlier.

Guys, i dont believe xBtax is mafia. If i could live through this i could explain. Let me put it this way, I'm a L'cie who was given a focus by someone and you all know what happens to l'cie who dont fulfill their focus.

Guys, i dont believe xBtax is mafia. If i could live through this i could explain. Let me put it this way, I'm a L'cie who was given a focus by someone and you all know what happens to l'cie who dont fulfill their focus.

Maybe if you didn't talk in fucking Final Fantasy speech things would be a little clearer.
That made no fucking sense.

Replying to bolded points:
1. Thus the fatal flaw of Mason groups.
2. Nobody said the clue pointed to the killer, and even then CoB's killer.
3. Again, nobody ever said the clue pointed to the killer.
4. I doubt anyone's altering the messages. Out of all the games I've played, there are few roles that can do such, and usually these roles transform people into another role before they die so when they die they appear to be a different role. But, since that's not how this game is setup, I'm assuming there aren't any roles like that.
5. ...You do not need to tell me "how the game goes."
6. Could the die clue not be referring to Mason groups and 1 of the mason groups is safe from harm? I was thinking about that earlier.

1. It's the way things are, so we'll just have to deal with it though.
2. I'd like to hear who you think it points out then and why it points them out then.
3. Again, if you have an alternate theory on things, I'd like to hear it.
4. Agreed, as I said it's possible, I just think it's impropable for this game.
5. Alright, perhaps I didn't need to include that, but it seemed as if a reminder wouldn't hurt given the discussion.
6. That is a possibility, but one that has some problems at the moment. We'd need to know how many groups there are, and what their sizes are. Any group with 4 or more people would pretty well ruin that idea though. You'd have to have 5 groups of 3 and one group of 2 for that to work out like a die. I suppose you could just divide up everyone like that rather than just mason groups, but you'd still have to decide which group of people is the group of two people.

Guys, i dont believe xBtax is mafia. If i could live through this i could explain. Let me put it this way, I'm a L'cie who was given a focus by someone and you all know what happens to l'cie who dont fulfill their focus.

Hmm, so can you explain more about your task, or is that as much as you're able to explain?

Replying to bolded points:
1. Thus the fatal flaw of Mason groups.

Or the fatal flaw of idlers. Just saying.

Too many things happened while I was sleeping/at school 0_o that vote of Daku is weird, what the hell is a l'cie, can you please use common words?...

Too many things happened while I was sleeping/at school 0_o that vote of Daku is weird, what the hell is a l'cie, can you please use common words?...

FF13 reference to someone that is touched a Fal'Cie, a summon spirit, and is given a sole purpose in life and a short window of time, like a week or two, to complete the task or they are turned into a monster.

FF13 reference to someone that is touched a Fal'Cie, a summon spirit, and is given a sole purpose in life and a short window of time, like a week or two, to complete the task or they are turned into a monster.

That was helpful, so someone told him to vote or he dies?... If it was mason group, that'd be interesting, also seeing as the other 2 mason group people haven't voted it'd be weird, it could also be mafia... maybe the mafias have a leader that says who votes or something?.... that'd be weird too and it seems silly to me to expose one of the little members of their team....

That was helpful, so someone told him to vote or he dies?... If it was mason group, that'd be interesting, also seeing as the other 2 mason group people haven't voted it'd be weird, it could also be mafia... maybe the mafias have a leader that says who votes or something?.... that'd be weird too and it seems silly to me to expose one of the little members of their team....

Overanalyzing it,IMO. He was just trying to show that he has to do what his gut tells him.

That was helpful, so someone told him to vote or he dies?... If it was mason group, that'd be interesting, also seeing as the other 2 mason group people haven't voted it'd be weird, it could also be mafia... maybe the mafias have a leader that says who votes or something?.... that'd be weird too and it seems silly to me to expose one of the little members of their team....

Thank you.

Thank you.

So someone is apparently threatening you or otherwise coercing you to vote differently? Hmm that's fairly peculiar. However, time is almost up, so unless a slew of people vote or change vote, I don't think anything will change.

Just going to wait for another 13 minutes as it is relatively close.

So someone is apparently threatening you or otherwise coercing you to vote differently? Hmm that's fairly peculiar. However, time is almost up, so unless a slew of people vote or change vote, I don't think anything will change.

In a mafia game I play, there's a role (the name escapes me at the moment) that has the ability "command" which it uses to command another user to vote as they wish. A similar role could be in this setup.

1. It's the way things are, so we'll just have to deal with it though.
2. I'd like to hear who you think it points out then and why it points them out then.
3. Again, if you have an alternate theory on things, I'd like to hear it.
4. Agreed, as I said it's possible, I just think it's impropable for this game.
5. Alright, perhaps I didn't need to include that, but it seemed as if a reminder wouldn't hurt given the discussion.
6. That is a possibility, but one that has some problems at the moment. We'd need to know how many groups there are, and what their sizes are. Any group with 4 or more people would pretty well ruin that idea though. You'd have to have 5 groups of 3 and one group of 2 for that to work out like a die. I suppose you could just divide up everyone like that rather than just mason groups, but you'd still have to decide which group of people is the group of two people.

2. It could slowly point out confirmed townies/power roles, could it not?
6. Maybe if we had a bit more information about the mason groups...

You gathered in the town square to lynch Synthesist, but he was nowhere to be found.

It is now night 2. This night ends at 5 PM EST tomorrow or when all night actions are in.

In a mafia game I play, there's a role (the name escapes me at the moment) that has the ability "command" which it uses to command another user to vote as they wish. A similar role could be in this setup.

2. It could slowly point out confirmed townies/power roles, could it not?
6. Maybe if we had a bit more information about the mason groups...

Hmm, well that would be interesting.

And yes it could, but unless Ray's doing a game heavily favoring mafia winning, I don't see how that would be a good thing. I mean it's useful knowing who are the power role townies, but we can only lynch one person a day, so giving us some possible mafia members mixed with regular townies, wouldn't be nearly as helpful to us as the mafia learning the remaining power roles on the townie side.

Yeah, but they're designed to make it difficult to figure things out right away. Closer to the end of game it'll probably be pretty obvious who was in what group, but right now it's still up in the air.

And now based upon Ray's statement, either we have a kidnapper mafia, or some other ability. >_<