Regarding critical damage with the revamp

So for the test results:

376*(1 + 0.2)*0.9 = 406.08 min regular
578*(1 + 0.5)*0.9 = 780.3 max regular
376*(1.3 + 0.2)*0.9 = 507.6 min double shot
578*(1.3 + 0.5)*0.9= 936.36 max double shot
Observed ranges: 444-760, 563-899

Fits, but not very well. Maybe damage isn't evenly distributed.

So for the test results:

376*(1 + 0.2)*0.9 = 406.08 min regular
578*(1 + 0.5)*0.9 = 780.3 max regular
376*(1.3 + 0.2)*0.9 = 507.6 min double shot
578*(1.3 + 0.5)*0.9= 936.36 max double shot
Observed ranges: 444-760, 563-899

Fits, but not very well. Maybe damage isn't evenly distributed.

Er... I'd like to point out that you used the tooltip for a character that has Thorns for me, a character without it.

EDIT: Nevermind, that tooltip says 5% even though he has 15%. I also checked it on my crit-less Slinger and his says 120% to 150% too.

So: 5% chance of doing 120% - 150% damage. Items and skills can modify it.

I guess that includes sharp eyes, basically. And critical masteries.

...Anyways, was it there ALL THE TIME? Why did nobody look at it before?

So for the test results:

376*(1 + 0.2)*0.9 = 406.08 min regular
578*(1 + 0.5)*0.9 = 780.3 max regular
376*(1.3 + 0.2)*0.9 = 507.6 min double shot
578*(1.3 + 0.5)*0.9= 936.36 max double shot
Observed ranges: 444-760, 563-899

Fits, but not very well. Maybe damage isn't evenly distributed.

Well, you observed 131-146% of crits on regular damage. 136-143% on double shot, if it's additive (131-133% if it's multiplicative).

Yeah, if crits aren't well distributed you might not hit that lower 11% or upper 4% very much. (you don't have any skill crit on the char, right? 5% chance to crit might limit your observations too)

Yeah, if crits aren't well distributed you might not hit that lower 11% or upper 4% very much. (you don't have any skill crit on the char, right? 5% chance to crit might limit your observations too)

Yeah, that's true.

I actually saw something a little disappointing with Invisible Shot a bit ago. I was fighting Jr. Lucidas and my observed highest observed non-crit was about 2380 and the highest observed crit was around 2800. I only tested for like 5 minutes and didn't really write down the numbers, but I know I didn't see a 3k with Invisible Shot, and this is after I'd maxed my critical skill and Invisible Shot was doing 258% damage (level 7).

I'll do the test again later with more concrete numbers on snails, but do you guys have any guesses on why crit added almost nothing?

So with enough equips, there is a chance of 100% crticaling from now on?

B> Critical Rate + equips.

Well, if you have your damage range chosen between 65% and 100% and critical damage between 120% and 150%, then it's a triangular distribution. (Kind of.) It's only to be expected that critical damage won't be distributed evenly.

Also, it's still possible to be a multiplicative 120% to 150%. We need a higher damaging skill.

I know this is off topic but I just have to say that this kind of thread is what makes Southperry great. Briliant people reverse engineering formulas from screendhots.

While I do not think I have much to contribute. I do enjoy following the logic. Keep up the good work everyone.

Question over this new system, posted it over in the 1.2.318 thread as well.

This is using Brawler/Marauder calculations, but this also applies to other classes.

With a base of 5% Critical chance doing 120%-150% damage, you get an additional 20% chance to both the chance and the minimum damage, so with just Critical Punch, we'd have 25% Critical chance of doing 140%-150% damage.

What doesn't make sense with this, is that many classes can get higher minimum damage than maximum when using SE. For example, SE raises 30% minimum Critical damage, so technically, Critical Range would be 170%-150%. Would it just be 150%-150% or would it just go to 170%? Can someone test to see what happens?

So with enough equips, there is a chance of 100% crticaling from now on?

B> Critical Rate + equips.

Well, there kind of already has, 70% aran base + 15% sharp eyes + 10% critical ring + 5% machlear (or 10% from neo eclipse, that goes over 100%).

Crits appear to be straight up multiplictive with 120% being the base increase and 150% being the upper limit of increase. Shikage did some light tests. His max range on his 'sader was 3684, and his max damage on Green Snails was 7.2k (no combo). His highest observed critical hit was 8.5k. That doesn't fit with +20%, but it does fit within the range of 1.2x. Of course, more data is needed to confirm.

Crits appear to be straight up multiplictive with 120% being the base increase and 150% being the upper limit of increase. Shikage did some light tests. His max range on his 'sader was 3684, and his max damage on Green Snails was 7.2k (no combo). His highest observed critical hit was 8.5k. That doesn't fit with +20%, but it does fit within the range of 1.2x. Of course, more data is needed to confirm.

Max Range 3684. Max damage 7200; Before defense, 8000. Skill% = 218%. Highest observed critical 8500. Before defense 9444. Skill% = 256%. 256%-218%=38%. 256/218=1.17. No, it does not fit in the range of 1.2x. Yes, it does fit in the range of +20%~+50%. If it's multiplicative, he should be able to hit over 9000. No joke. He should actually be able to hit over 10000 though, but if it's additive, it won't go higher than ~8952.

Multiplicative Critical Range after defense: 6127~10942
Additive Critical Range after defense: 5570~8952

Therefore, if he can hit below 6127, it is additive. If he can hit over 8952, it is multiplicative.

Max Range 3684. Max damage 7200; Before defense, 8000. Skill% = 218%. Highest observed critical 8500. Before defense 9444. Skill% = 256%. 256%-218%=38%. 256/218=1.17. No, it does not fit in the range of 1.2x. Yes, it does fit in the range of +20%~+50%. If it's multiplicative, he should be able to hit over 9000. No joke. He should actually be able to hit over 10000 though, but if it's additive, it won't go higher than ~8952.

Multiplicative Critical Range after defense: 6127~10942
Additive Critical Range after defense: 5570~8952

Therefore, if he can hit below 6127, it is additive. If he can hit over 8952, it is multiplicative.

Did you remember to modify for PDRate (Green snails have 10)? That reduces his max possible range to 3315. Also, he was using maxed Brandish (220%). This puts his highest hit possible at 3315 * 2.2 or 7293 (his highest observed was 7.2k, not exact 7200). His highest critical hit observed was 8.5k. If it was additive % it would be 240% (2.4 multiplier, no?) which would then make his highest possible crit: 7956. Multiplicitive puts his highest crit at 8751, well above the +20% that is theorized. This also fits with the gunslinger having ~130% crit due to his skill which raises the critical multiplier by 10% (from 120%).

Did you remember to modify for PDRate (Green snails have 10)? That reduces his max possible range to 3315. Also, he was using maxed Brandish (220%). This puts his highest hit possible at 3315 * 2.2 or 7293 (his highest observed was 7.2k, not exact 7200). His highest critical hit observed was 8.5k. If it was additive % it would be 240% (2.4 multiplier, no?) which would then make his highest possible crit: 7956. Multiplicitive puts his highest crit at 8751, well above the +20% that is theorized. This also fits with the gunslinger having ~130% crit due to his skill which raises the critical multiplier by 10% (from 120%).

270% is his highest possible critical because critical ranges from 120% to 150%. Of course I accounted for PDRate.

270% is his highest possible critical because critical ranges from 120% to 150%. Of course I accounted for PDRate.

Or critical can only go up to 150%, which is another way the translation reads (and quite frankly makes more sense but that's irrelevant).

EDIT: Bah. KaidaTan's observations throw everything out of whack.

Or critical can only go up to 150%, which is another way the translation reads (and quite frankly makes more sense but that's irrelevant).

Damage Range: 370~569

Without Crit:
Min: 433
Max: 664

With Crit:
Min: 561
Max: 905

Multiplicative 130% (120% + 10% from skill):
563~866
Additive 130% (120% + 10% from skill):
533~819

Multiplicative 130%~150%
563~996
Additive 130%~150%
533~922

So Crit adds 20% to 50% per hit. That's... garbage. You'd think, since they're already changing everything, that they could make crit multiplicative so that it benefits everyone evenly and is a little less pointless to boot.

Multiplicative 130% (120% + 10% from skill):
563~866
Additive 130% (120% + 10% from skill):
533~819

Multiplicative 130%~150%
563~996
Additive 130%~150%
533~922

While it doesn't explain the maxes, the min can be explained by the fact that he was training on red snails and shrooms. However, I still say we need some more data on this. The problem is the range of +30% to +50% is so huge we need a skill with a really large multiplier to test it out.

Well, there kind of already has, 70% aran base + 15% sharp eyes + 10% critical ring + 5% machlear (or 10% from neo eclipse, that goes over 100%).

Aran's base crit is 60%, and with potential equips, increase of critical rates are easy to achieve.

Aran's base crit is 60%, and with potential equips, increase of critical rates are easy to achieve.

It's 70%, and you just repeated what she was trying to say.